Russian Generals dropping like flies
Comments
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Ironic, that the dazzler is firmly in the "torture doesn't work camp". He wouldn't last a minute.SFGbob said:Dazzler is incapable of telling the truth on an anonymous message board, he’d be even a bigger pussy in front of Putin.
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I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
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You make some very good points; the corruption is so endemic across all ranks there that when the Russians showed up for what the junior officers thought were war games (until a few days prior) they wrote down that they had full fuel supplies. Half had been sold off, because they didn’t think they’d actually need them. No ones going to tell Putin he’s one of the few who considers their army sacred, while an underpaid major wants to get facial hair removal surgery for his wife and daughter, and penis enlargement surgery for himself. Maybe even a vacation to an all inclusive resort in Turkey where he will drink his weight in alcohol to get his moneys worth.WestlinnDuck said:
In hindsight, the overall corruption of the Russian culture contaminated their military. Like the Olympics in Sochi, a huge amount of the construction funding was stolen and then the subsequent actual construction was world class sh*tty. The quality of the American officer class of the US military was a result of a strict meritocracy rather than payoffs. That's being undermined as fast as the dems can get there. The Russians obviously have serious morale problems, logistic problems and leadership problems as a result of corruption and promoted incompetents. And like the US in Iraq and Afghanistan they have had a complete failure in their intelligence agencies. Plus who wants to tell a murderous dictator like Putin the hard truth?TXDawg said:
But Doogman said the Russian military was 5*. I’m so surprised that when they got on the field, they couldn’t perform.WestlinnDuck said:
"Over rated, Over rated"46XiJCAB said:Reports are that up to 7 Russian generals have been KIA thus far. Seems that the Russian Army decided to rely upon cell towers in Ukraine for their communications. The Ukrainian military has been intercepting their communications and then pinpointing their locations, then dropping missiles on their heads.
Also reports of Russian soldiers shooting themselves to get sent home. Sabotaging their own equipment and even, reportedly, shooting down one of their own aircraft on purpose. Looks like 200K Russians having a time with 600K Ukrainian soldiers.
Home team battling their ranked opponent.
The other good point is that nepotism and bribery secures a place at their military academies, whereas ours are mostly meritocracy based. I’ve known several people who went to West Point, including my future BiL plus a deserter that joined the FFL, and they were all qualified, type A personality overachievers, excellent physical condition, etc. Those who stay for their careers, like the BiL, are well compensated but are also turning down more lucrative opportunities because they want to do this and with each promotion the best are kept. There are some politics, but mostly meritocracy on the road to colonel. In Russia they hang on to their rank to help facilitate their corruption based income. -
Projection…looks like you lost. SadHHusky said:
People forget what a single-minded piece of shit you are, Gasbag.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
They forget. -
I'm hearing they only meant 2A to apply to musketsWestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas -
2A Allows you to have a T-72 tank.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
HTH. -
How would you prefer to go out?RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas -
You should diafffr.HHusky said:
People forget what a single-minded piece of shit you are, Gasbag.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
They forget. -
Dressed well, to a nice steakhouse.BleachedAnusDawg said:
How would you prefer to go out?RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas -
If you have one it might not help. Tanks don’t usually battle other tanks. Tanks are more of an attack spearhead type of thing to support infantry, so unless there’s two head on assaults occurring that’s very unlikely. A Russian tactical battalion will have two anti-tank groups for each tank group. So what you’d need to counter that is something more along the lines of an RPG. Or the much more effective and costly guided anti-tank weaponry we see being used now: Javelin (US), NLAW (UK), Stugna (Ukraine). Another effective weapon has been the John Deere tractor.MikeDamone said:
2A Allows you to have a T-72 tank.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
HTH.
This is actually a SAM system, but it looks close enough to a tank for most people.
Russians have been running out of fuel, breaking down too far past their lines, or just plain abandoning their shit, from Howitzers to BTRs to this very expensive thing. Ukrainian farmers love them some John Deere.
Anyway, unsurprisingly, you missed the point. 2A isn’t germane to the discussion at hand, so I’m guessing the person who brought that up was just looking for any reason to bring it up - relevance be damned. I wasted time on the current state of tank warfare, might as well if we’re just saying what we feel like. I wish you luck in your pursuit of a T-72, but if that fails and you’re interested in a tank that can bypass NFA as an antique then I’d recommend the 1916 Renault FT. With diesel prices being what they are this thing allows for much more economically efficient war crimes, and can fit in most garages.
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I laffed.RatherBeBrewing said:
If you have one it might not help. Tanks don’t usually battle other tanks. Tanks are more of an attack spearhead type of thing to support infantry, so unless there’s two head on assaults occurring that’s very unlikely. A Russian tactical battalion will have two anti-tank groups for each tank group. So what you’d need to counter that is something more along the lines of an RPG. Or the much more effective and costly guided anti-tank weaponry we see being used now: Javelin (US), NLAW (UK), Stugna (Ukraine). Another effective weapon has been the John Deere tractor.MikeDamone said:
2A Allows you to have a T-72 tank.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
HTH.
This is actually a SAM system, but it looks close enough to a tank for most people.
Russians have been running out of fuel, breaking down too far past their lines, or just plain abandoning their shit, from Howitzers to BTRs to this very expensive thing. Ukrainian farmers love them some John Deere.
Anyway, unsurprisingly, you missed the point. 2A isn’t germane to the discussion at hand, so I’m guessing the person who brought that up was just looking for any reason to bring it up - relevance be damned. I wasted time on the current state of tank warfare, might as well if we’re just saying what we feel like. I wish you luck in your pursuit of a T-72, but if that fails and you’re interested in a tank that can bypass NFA as an antique then I’d recommend the 1916 Renault FT. With diesel prices being what they are this thing allows for much more economically efficient war crimes, and can fit in most garages. -
Neither the Ukrainians nor the Russians are telling the truth.
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Putin does not give one fuck about these generals dying. They lied to him about the readiness of their forces and he's making them live with the consequences of their lying. Russians, even back to the Tsar, will throw a STACK of bodies at a conflict and not blink an eye. Watch out for the next wave. The guys who will replace the dead generals will note the consequences before assuming their commands.
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If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas -
Some on here prefer the rape.
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I call it aggressive touching.Sledog said:Some on here prefer the rape.
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TL;DRRatherBeBrewing said:
If you have one it might not help. Tanks don’t usually battle other tanks. Tanks are more of an attack spearhead type of thing to support infantry, so unless there’s two head on assaults occurring that’s very unlikely. A Russian tactical battalion will have two anti-tank groups for each tank group. So what you’d need to counter that is something more along the lines of an RPG. Or the much more effective and costly guided anti-tank weaponry we see being used now: Javelin (US), NLAW (UK), Stugna (Ukraine). Another effective weapon has been the John Deere tractor.MikeDamone said:
2A Allows you to have a T-72 tank.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
HTH.
This is actually a SAM system, but it looks close enough to a tank for most people.
Russians have been running out of fuel, breaking down too far past their lines, or just plain abandoning their shit, from Howitzers to BTRs to this very expensive thing. Ukrainian farmers love them some John Deere.
Anyway, unsurprisingly, you missed the point. 2A isn’t germane to the discussion at hand, so I’m guessing the person who brought that up was just looking for any reason to bring it up - relevance be damned. I wasted time on the current state of tank warfare, might as well if we’re just saying what we feel like. I wish you luck in your pursuit of a T-72, but if that fails and you’re interested in a tank that can bypass NFA as an antique then I’d recommend the 1916 Renault FT. With diesel prices being what they are this thing allows for much more economically efficient war crimes, and can fit in most garages.
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Unless you have a spare ATGM laying around a tractor might be your best bet to prevent a tank from raping you.MikeDamone said:
TL;DRRatherBeBrewing said:
If you have one it might not help. Tanks don’t usually battle other tanks. Tanks are more of an attack spearhead type of thing to support infantry, so unless there’s two head on assaults occurring that’s very unlikely. A Russian tactical battalion will have two anti-tank groups for each tank group. So what you’d need to counter that is something more along the lines of an RPG. Or the much more effective and costly guided anti-tank weaponry we see being used now: Javelin (US), NLAW (UK), Stugna (Ukraine). Another effective weapon has been the John Deere tractor.MikeDamone said:
2A Allows you to have a T-72 tank.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
HTH.
This is actually a SAM system, but it looks close enough to a tank for most people.
Russians have been running out of fuel, breaking down too far past their lines, or just plain abandoning their shit, from Howitzers to BTRs to this very expensive thing. Ukrainian farmers love them some John Deere.
Anyway, unsurprisingly, you missed the point. 2A isn’t germane to the discussion at hand, so I’m guessing the person who brought that up was just looking for any reason to bring it up - relevance be damned. I wasted time on the current state of tank warfare, might as well if we’re just saying what we feel like. I wish you luck in your pursuit of a T-72, but if that fails and you’re interested in a tank that can bypass NFA as an antique then I’d recommend the 1916 Renault FT. With diesel prices being what they are this thing allows for much more economically efficient war crimes, and can fit in most garages. -
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If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. -
The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.RatherBeBrewing said:
If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. -
I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.Sledog said:
The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.RatherBeBrewing said:
If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that.
You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.
If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.
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It doesn't take much training to defensively level the playing field combined with force multipliers like local knowledge of terrain.RatherBeBrewing said:
If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that.
Combine that with the numbers game of what it takes to raise offensive spec ops teams vs a reserves militia and things start getting uncomfortably even quickly.
There's a reason even the US lost to a bunch of goat fuckers.
That's not some red dawn Rambo fantasy, it's just the reality that armed populations are hard to oppress. -
It just means more playing at home.UW_Doog_Bot said:
It doesn't take much training to defensively level the playing field combined with force multipliers like local knowledge of terrain.RatherBeBrewing said:
If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that.
Combine that with the numbers game of what it takes to raise offensive spec ops teams vs a reserves militia and things start getting uncomfortably even quickly.
There's a reason even the US lost to a bunch of goat fuckers.
That's not some red dawn Rambo fantasy, it's just the reality that armed populations are hard to oppress.
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West Linn tuff. Obviously too pour to live in LOWestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
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I hate to besmirch the two twitter accounts that mirror the Russian governments stance on everything. Especially since the one that slips up and uses Russian language syntax every now then was just created last month, but -HoustonHusky said:
A droplet of water on a windshield is not a moving arm: https://mobile.twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1510641101643919368
The other tweet doesn’t have any dead bodies because it’s a different street, in another part of the same town. As seen in the video posted at the link. It’s the English language version, and there are plenty of other dead bodies they do see: https://web.archive.org/web/20220402185448/https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html
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I think the broader point is it's hard to figure out what the fuck is going on over there to the casual observer because of all the disinformation campaigns. It would help a great deal if I could read signs and such. I trust the Ukranians more than the Russians but not by much. I like the Ukrainians a whole hell of a lot more than the Russians so I WANT to believe them. I was reading last night that some international organizations on the ground were reporting atrocities, so I assume with pretty decent certainty some seriously bad war crime type shit has gone on.RatherBeBrewing said:
I hate to besmirch the two twitter accounts that mirror the Russian governments stance on everything. Especially since the one that slips up and uses Russian language syntax every now then was just created last month, but -HoustonHusky said:
A droplet of water on a windshield is not a moving arm: https://mobile.twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1510641101643919368
The other tweet doesn’t have any dead bodies because it’s a different street, in another part of the same town. As seen in the video posted at the link. It’s the English language version, and there are plenty of other dead bodies they do see: https://web.archive.org/web/20220402185448/https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html -
Neither the Russians nor the Ukraineans are telling the truth. It’s a propaganda war.
And they're both doing bad shit.
We only see what we're allowed to see.
