Chris Paul has been one of the best PGs for years, possibly the best. He may finish in 2nd or 3rd in stats but at least he is there every year. I think it is hard to qualify a point guard as the best because of how different that position can be played.
Can we stop doing the whole if someone doesn't have a ring they are overrated thing? Christ it gets annoying sometimes. In 2008 he pretty much put the team on its back and almost led them to the conference finals.
If we go strictly by NBA titles recently then Mario Chalmers, Jason Kidd, and Derek Fischer would be the fucking best, and I know you guys don't agree with that bullshit.
Chris Paul is one of the best if not the best currently. Stop pressing.
It's not having no ring. I always thought Dirk was great, even before his ring. Same with Nash when he was with Phoenix. My problem with Paul is he gets mentioned right after LeBron and Durant.
I've seen Mike Conley play him to a standstill, if not outplay him. I've seen Tony Parker do whatever he wants against him. There are 3 or 4 PG's as good or better than him, yet he frequently gets mentioned as the best. Nobody is saying he sucks.
Chris Paul is a great player ... I don't get the hate for him at this point. His career has been mostly been filled with playing on shit teams. The last two years you could argue that the Clippers have flamed out of the playoffs due to questionable depth and poor coaching. This is by far the deepest team that they've had and the best coach by far.
I'd be surprised if they weren't playing the Spurs in the West Finals.
You do realize that they are playing OKC in round two if they get by Golden State right? You would be surprised if OKC beats the Clippers?
Chris Paul has been one of the best PGs for years, possibly the best. He may finish in 2nd or 3rd in stats but at least he is there every year. I think it is hard to qualify a point guard as the best because of how different that position can be played.
Can we stop doing the whole if someone doesn't have a ring they are overrated thing? Christ it gets annoying sometimes. In 2008 he pretty much put the team on its back and almost led them to the conference finals.
If we go strictly by NBA titles recently then Mario Chalmers, Jason Kidd, and Derek Fischer would be the fucking best, and I know you guys don't agree with that bullshit.
Chris Paul is one of the best if not the best currently. Stop pressing.
It's not having no ring. I always thought Dirk was great, even before his ring. Same with Nash when he was with Phoenix. My problem with Paul is he gets mentioned right after LeBron and Durant.
I've seen Mike Conley play him to a standstill, if not outplay him. I've seen Tony Parker do whatever he wants against him. There are 3 or 4 PG's as good or better than him, yet he frequently gets mentioned as the best. Nobody is saying he sucks.
Sorry there are not 3 or 4 PGs better than Paul. I can get on board with the argument about people mentioning him being right behind Lebron and KD, but to say there are 3 or 4 better than him is ridiculous. So you saw Mike Conley play him to a stand still once, great. Conley may have done it a couple times along with other Point Guards, it's going to happen with the talent the NBA has. Conley is also known as one of the best defensive PGs along with Rondo and Paul (and probably another by now).\
Lets look at the Clippers before Chris Paul showed up:
2008-09: 19-63 2009-10: 29-53 2010-11: 32-50
AFTER Chris Paul
40-26 56-26 57-25
Accolades:
7× NBA All-Star (2008–2014) NBA All-Star Game MVP (2013) 3× All-NBA First Team (2008, 2012–2013) All-NBA Second Team (2009) All-NBA Third Team (2011) 3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009, 2012–2013) 2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008, 2011) NBA Rookie of the Year (2006) All-Rookie First Team (2006) 3× NBA assists leader (2008–2009, 2014) 6× NBA steals leader (2008–2009, 2011–2014)
There is no evidence besides you seeing Conley and Parker play better than him on a certain night. I saw Sark beat Stanford the year they won the Rose Bowl, doesn't mean he is a good coach.
On the topic of Parker making Paul look foolish do you not remember the 2007-08 playoffs where Paul made pretty much everyone including Parker look like morons?
APAG beat me to the punch, it is the PG position that is overrated in general but CP3 as a Point Guard is not overrated whatsoever (He will most likely make the Hall of Fame).
Chris Paul is a great player ... I don't get the hate for him at this point. His career has been mostly been filled with playing on shit teams. The last two years you could argue that the Clippers have flamed out of the playoffs due to questionable depth and poor coaching. This is by far the deepest team that they've had and the best coach by far.
I'd be surprised if they weren't playing the Spurs in the West Finals.
You do realize that they are playing OKC in round two if they get by Golden State right? You would be surprised if OKC beats the Clippers?
Chris Paul is a great player ... I don't get the hate for him at this point. His career has been mostly been filled with playing on shit teams. The last two years you could argue that the Clippers have flamed out of the playoffs due to questionable depth and poor coaching. This is by far the deepest team that they've had and the best coach by far.
I'd be surprised if they weren't playing the Spurs in the West Finals.
You do realize that they are playing OKC in round two if they get by Golden State right? You would be surprised if OKC beats the Clippers?
That would be a great series, they went 2-2 this year H2H. Don't count out Dallas either, they are actually a pretty decent team. I expect OKC to win in 6 but would I be shocked if Dallas won in 7? No.
Dallas is playing San Antonio. Memphis is playing OKC and it should be a pretty good series. Dallas is decent, but they don't have the depth or defense to stop San Antonio. I bet that one is over in 5.
Cuntwaffle, 07-08 isn't now. It was a long time ago. And while Paul was great, that team was pretty good. David West and Tyson Chandler for the bigs, and Peja Stojakovic at the 3. It fell off after that, but that's a damn good nucleus. They also lost in the 2nd round to San Antonio.
Too much is being made over if Paul is overrated. Everyone knows he's really good and has had a good career. Great players win in the playoffs though. That's how they are judged. He hasn't done that. Tony Parker and Steph Curry are better right now. Westbrook probably is too. I think there are a couple more guys that are in the ballpark, but don't have the reputation or hype at this point.
Mike Conley outplayed him for a whole series. It wasn't one game, like Sark beating Stanford. Paul gets a lot of love because he plays like a classic PG, but in terms of impact, his hype doesn't match his actual value. If you are a great PG, you can lead a team with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and a bunch of good role players (Reddick, Crawford, Barnes, Collison, Dudley). It's a really deep team that played well without Paul this year. There's no Vinny Del Negro excuse anymore. He deserves the backlash if he loses in the first round, even if GS is a good team.
Cuntwaffle, 07-08 isn't now. It was a long time ago. And while Paul was great, that team was pretty good. David West and Tyson Chandler for the bigs, and Peja Stojakovic at the 3. It fell off after that, but that's a damn good nucleus. They also lost in the 2nd round to San Antonio.
Too much is being made over if Paul is overrated. Everyone knows he's really good and has had a good career. Great players win in the playoffs though. That's how they are judged. He hasn't done that. Tony Parker and Steph Curry are better right now. Westbrook probably is too. I think there are a couple more guys that are in the ballpark, but don't have the reputation or hype at this point.
Mike Conley outplayed him for a whole series. It wasn't one game, like Sark beating Stanford. Paul gets a lot of love because he plays like a classic PG, but in terms of impact, his hype doesn't match his actual value. If you are a great PG, you can lead a team with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and a bunch of good role players (Reddick, Crawford, Barnes, Collison, Dudley). It's a really deep team that played well without Paul this year. There's no Vinny Del Negro excuse anymore. He deserves the backlash if he loses in the first round, even if GS is a good team.
Ok fine it isn't now, but you are going to take 1 series he played the apply it to him as a whole? Conley and the Grizzlies were playing out of their minds until they ran into San Antonio. David West/Tyson Chandler is still not the same as having the luxury as playing with the LEAGUE MVP or one of the greatest if not THE greatest Power Forwards of all time.
You are going to say that players are judged by playoff wins and then bring up Curry? LOL you realize Curry hasn't won jack shit at this point either right? How are you measuring Curry is better? He is a better scorer but his defense doesn't even come close to CP3.
Do you even really watch the NBA? You know how many people would laugh if you told them Curry/Conley overall are better than the player who lead the league in Assists AND Steals this year (along with a better record)? Curry has a great core too with Bogut (now out)/Lee/Thompson.
We may have to switch the convo to about how Cliff Paul is an overrated State Farm agent (agree with that 100%). There are not 3 better or equal Point Guards to CP3. Ask CollegeDoog since he is probably dialed in with NBA as well, even he would think this is a joke.
Cuntwaffle, 07-08 isn't now. It was a long time ago. And while Paul was great, that team was pretty good. David West and Tyson Chandler for the bigs, and Peja Stojakovic at the 3. It fell off after that, but that's a damn good nucleus. They also lost in the 2nd round to San Antonio.
Too much is being made over if Paul is overrated. Everyone knows he's really good and has had a good career. Great players win in the playoffs though. That's how they are judged. He hasn't done that. Tony Parker and Steph Curry are better right now. Westbrook probably is too. I think there are a couple more guys that are in the ballpark, but don't have the reputation or hype at this point.
Mike Conley outplayed him for a whole series. It wasn't one game, like Sark beating Stanford. Paul gets a lot of love because he plays like a classic PG, but in terms of impact, his hype doesn't match his actual value. If you are a great PG, you can lead a team with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and a bunch of good role players (Reddick, Crawford, Barnes, Collison, Dudley). It's a really deep team that played well without Paul this year. There's no Vinny Del Negro excuse anymore. He deserves the backlash if he loses in the first round, even if GS is a good team.
Ok fine it isn't now, but you are going to take 1 series he played the apply it to him as a whole? Conley and the Grizzlies were playing out of their minds until they ran into San Antonio. David West/Tyson Chandler is still not the same as having the luxury as playing with the LEAGUE MVP or one of the greatest if not THE greatest Power Forwards of all time.
You are going to say that players are judged by playoff wins and then bring up Curry? LOL you realize Curry hasn't won jack shit at this point either right? How are you measuring Curry is better? He is a better scorer but his defense doesn't even come close to CP3.
Do you even really watch the NBA? You know how many people would laugh if you told them Curry/Conley overall are better than the player who lead the league in Assists AND Steals this year (along with a better record)? Curry has a great core too with Bogut (now out)/Lee/Thompson.
We may have to switch the convo to about how Cliff Paul is an overrated State Farm agent (agree with that 100%). There are not 3 better or equal Point Guards to CP3. Ask CollegeDoog since he is probably dialed in with NBA as well, even he would think this is a joke.
Where did you get that I said Conley is better? I said he outplayed him in a series. Clippers have a way better supporting cast with Blake Griffin alone than the Warriors. Right now, Curry is better, just like how Paul was better than Steve Nash in 2007-2008. I doubt the Warriors would have a better record if you swapped Paul for Curry. We're not talking about their careers, I'm saying right now.
Ok lets look at this playoff series where CP3 got "outplayed" by Conley since I thought I remembered it differently but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.
FG%/PPG/Assist to Turnover ratio/Steals (good measures for a point guard.
Conley: 41% (29-71)/17.3/5.0/1.2
Paul: 53% (49-92)/22.8/4.2/1.8
Is this really outplayed now? Chris Paul had 1 game where he was AWFUL (Game 3 where he had 8 points, 4 assists, and 5 turnovers). Besides that one game, there isn't any other one where Chris Paul got dominated, in fact, Chris Paul was better in 3/6 while and one of the games was close enough to be a split.
If you want to look at why the Clippers lost go look at Griffin/Jordans series (the 2 players you say make a great nucleus). Griffin had a couple good games but 3 awful ones and Deandre Jordan's stats look like he barely played.
Cuntwaffle, 07-08 isn't now. It was a long time ago. And while Paul was great, that team was pretty good. David West and Tyson Chandler for the bigs, and Peja Stojakovic at the 3. It fell off after that, but that's a damn good nucleus. They also lost in the 2nd round to San Antonio.
Too much is being made over if Paul is overrated. Everyone knows he's really good and has had a good career. Great players win in the playoffs though. That's how they are judged. He hasn't done that. Tony Parker and Steph Curry are better right now. Westbrook probably is too. I think there are a couple more guys that are in the ballpark, but don't have the reputation or hype at this point.
Mike Conley outplayed him for a whole series. It wasn't one game, like Sark beating Stanford. Paul gets a lot of love because he plays like a classic PG, but in terms of impact, his hype doesn't match his actual value. If you are a great PG, you can lead a team with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and a bunch of good role players (Reddick, Crawford, Barnes, Collison, Dudley). It's a really deep team that played well without Paul this year. There's no Vinny Del Negro excuse anymore. He deserves the backlash if he loses in the first round, even if GS is a good team.
Ok fine it isn't now, but you are going to take 1 series he played the apply it to him as a whole? Conley and the Grizzlies were playing out of their minds until they ran into San Antonio. David West/Tyson Chandler is still not the same as having the luxury as playing with the LEAGUE MVP or one of the greatest if not THE greatest Power Forwards of all time.
You are going to say that players are judged by playoff wins and then bring up Curry? LOL you realize Curry hasn't won jack shit at this point either right? How are you measuring Curry is better? He is a better scorer but his defense doesn't even come close to CP3.
Do you even really watch the NBA? You know how many people would laugh if you told them Curry/Conley overall are better than the player who lead the league in Assists AND Steals this year (along with a better record)? Curry has a great core too with Bogut (now out)/Lee/Thompson.
We may have to switch the convo to about how Cliff Paul is an overrated State Farm agent (agree with that 100%). There are not 3 better or equal Point Guards to CP3. Ask CollegeDoog since he is probably dialed in with NBA as well, even he would think this is a joke.
Where did you get that I said Conley is better? I said he outplayed him in a series. Clippers have a way better supporting cast with Blake Griffin alone than the Warriors. Right now, Curry is better, just like how Paul was better than Steve Nash in 2007-2008. I doubt the Warriors would have a better record if you swapped Paul for Curry. We're not talking about their careers, I'm saying right now.
You still haven't answered how Curry is better? I agree CP3's nucleus is better but Bogut/Lee/Thompson isn't exponentially worse than Jordan/Griffin/Reddick.
Curry is a betting scoring Point Guard because he is a high volume shooter. % wise do you know how much Curry was better than Paul this year? .5% (46.6% to 47.1%)
Assist/TO ratio do you know how much Paul was better than Curry? 2.4 (Curry - 2.2 Paul - 4.6)
Rebounds was a tie at 4.3. Steals Paul wins 2.5 to 1.6.
Yes, I would pick the Clippers over OKC in a series right ... Clippers win in 6 games.
OKC basically goes as far as KD and Westbrook takes them and the real variable on their roster at this point is the play of Serge Ibaka.
1) Chris Paul is Chris Paul and the 2nd best player on the court behind KD - you pretty much know what you are getting out of him. Outside of KD, he's the best player on the court - everybody says so. 2) Blake's by far grown as a player this year and is a far better player now than he was in the past few years. 3) DeAndre Jordan I see playing with a ton more confidence this year and is doing a much better job of controlling the paint. Doc Rivers has made a world of difference in his psyche - everybody says so. 4) The supporting cast of the Clippers is much, much better with guys like Crawford, Reddick, Barnes, Colison, and "Big Baby" Ossai ... the bench is hungry and ready to rumble. 5) Chris Paul is a maestro of controlling the action of the game and will make the difference in the series ... I like the Clippers winning the series rather easily by an average score of 134-117.
Paul is fucking nice. This thread got a little out of hand. I think his knee hampers him and he isn't quite as good as the talking heads say he is. He's still really good though.
for all you chris paul apologists defend those 2 crucial misses, cost them a chance to win the game
He played great before that, but being clutch matters. I don't think it's overrated at all, and I don't think Paul should get defended. He's never done shit in the playoffs.
Until he does, he deserves what comes, just like LeBron did before winning. LeBron had multiple choke jobs, the biggest being the Dallas series.
Talk about a flawed replay system deciding the game ... THAT changed the outcome of the game ... not the 2 missed free throws when they were down 3.
How was it a flawed replay system? It was off Paul. That's exactly what the system is for. How the fuck do you even come up with that? The real deciding factor was Blake Griffin fouling out and only playing 19 minutes.
Comments
I've seen Mike Conley play him to a standstill, if not outplay him. I've seen Tony Parker do whatever he wants against him. There are 3 or 4 PG's as good or better than him, yet he frequently gets mentioned as the best. Nobody is saying he sucks.
Lets look at the Clippers before Chris Paul showed up:
2008-09: 19-63
2009-10: 29-53
2010-11: 32-50
AFTER Chris Paul
40-26
56-26
57-25
Accolades:
7× NBA All-Star (2008–2014)
NBA All-Star Game MVP (2013)
3× All-NBA First Team (2008, 2012–2013)
All-NBA Second Team (2009)
All-NBA Third Team (2011)
3× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2009, 2012–2013)
2× NBA All-Defensive Second Team (2008, 2011)
NBA Rookie of the Year (2006)
All-Rookie First Team (2006)
3× NBA assists leader (2008–2009, 2014)
6× NBA steals leader (2008–2009, 2011–2014)
There is no evidence besides you seeing Conley and Parker play better than him on a certain night. I saw Sark beat Stanford the year they won the Rose Bowl, doesn't mean he is a good coach.
On the topic of Parker making Paul look foolish do you not remember the 2007-08 playoffs where Paul made pretty much everyone including Parker look like morons?
APAG beat me to the punch, it is the PG position that is overrated in general but CP3 as a Point Guard is not overrated whatsoever (He will most likely make the Hall of Fame).
Too much is being made over if Paul is overrated. Everyone knows he's really good and has had a good career. Great players win in the playoffs though. That's how they are judged. He hasn't done that. Tony Parker and Steph Curry are better right now. Westbrook probably is too. I think there are a couple more guys that are in the ballpark, but don't have the reputation or hype at this point.
Mike Conley outplayed him for a whole series. It wasn't one game, like Sark beating Stanford. Paul gets a lot of love because he plays like a classic PG, but in terms of impact, his hype doesn't match his actual value. If you are a great PG, you can lead a team with Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, and a bunch of good role players (Reddick, Crawford, Barnes, Collison, Dudley). It's a really deep team that played well without Paul this year. There's no Vinny Del Negro excuse anymore. He deserves the backlash if he loses in the first round, even if GS is a good team.
You are going to say that players are judged by playoff wins and then bring up Curry? LOL you realize Curry hasn't won jack shit at this point either right? How are you measuring Curry is better? He is a better scorer but his defense doesn't even come close to CP3.
Do you even really watch the NBA? You know how many people would laugh if you told them Curry/Conley overall are better than the player who lead the league in Assists AND Steals this year (along with a better record)? Curry has a great core too with Bogut (now out)/Lee/Thompson.
We may have to switch the convo to about how Cliff Paul is an overrated State Farm agent (agree with that 100%). There are not 3 better or equal Point Guards to CP3. Ask CollegeDoog since he is probably dialed in with NBA as well, even he would think this is a joke.
FG%/PPG/Assist to Turnover ratio/Steals (good measures for a point guard.
Conley: 41% (29-71)/17.3/5.0/1.2
Paul: 53% (49-92)/22.8/4.2/1.8
Is this really outplayed now? Chris Paul had 1 game where he was AWFUL (Game 3 where he had 8 points, 4 assists, and 5 turnovers). Besides that one game, there isn't any other one where Chris Paul got dominated, in fact, Chris Paul was better in 3/6 while and one of the games was close enough to be a split.
If you want to look at why the Clippers lost go look at Griffin/Jordans series (the 2 players you say make a great nucleus). Griffin had a couple good games but 3 awful ones and Deandre Jordan's stats look like he barely played.
Curry is a betting scoring Point Guard because he is a high volume shooter. % wise do you know how much Curry was better than Paul this year? .5% (46.6% to 47.1%)
Assist/TO ratio do you know how much Paul was better than Curry? 2.4 (Curry - 2.2 Paul - 4.6)
Rebounds was a tie at 4.3. Steals Paul wins 2.5 to 1.6.
The stats all support Paul.
OKC basically goes as far as KD and Westbrook takes them and the real variable on their roster at this point is the play of Serge Ibaka.
1) Chris Paul is Chris Paul and the 2nd best player on the court behind KD - you pretty much know what you are getting out of him. Outside of KD, he's the best player on the court - everybody says so.
2) Blake's by far grown as a player this year and is a far better player now than he was in the past few years.
3) DeAndre Jordan I see playing with a ton more confidence this year and is doing a much better job of controlling the paint. Doc Rivers has made a world of difference in his psyche - everybody says so.
4) The supporting cast of the Clippers is much, much better with guys like Crawford, Reddick, Barnes, Colison, and "Big Baby" Ossai ... the bench is hungry and ready to rumble.
5) Chris Paul is a maestro of controlling the action of the game and will make the difference in the series ... I like the Clippers winning the series rather easily by an average score of 134-117.
Until he does, he deserves what comes, just like LeBron did before winning. LeBron had multiple choke jobs, the biggest being the Dallas series.