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They are definitely out there, I have a nephew who has been training to be welder and you can actually get hooked up with stuff like that through community colleges evidently. Since he doesn't like school it's great for him and he can make a lot more money than his other relatives. You have to have your shit together to get ahead in the trades.Boner said:
There are actually a lot of high wage blue collar careers available, the issue is finding a kid who knows which end of a screwdriver to use or is at least willing to learn.Kingdome_Urinals said:
Yeah, a lot of kids are completely lost at college and have no appreciation for the opportunities they have. I don't think college is necessarily worth it financially and if a kid doesn't want to go they shouldn't.creepycoug said:
I agree with pretty much all of that. I used to say all the time that I don't care where my Ds meet their future husbands as long as it's not in HS. Just playing the rough odds there.Kingdome_Urinals said:
College is simply associated with social prestige and higher earnings. Even if college grads don't always make more money, it doesn't really matter. Mass higher education is a social norm in the developed world and middle-class people will do whatever it takes to maintain social prestige.creepycoug said:
I have come around to agreeing with this view, overcoming a huge emotional bias on my part in the process. But at today's prices it's hard to justify for at least 50% of the college-attending population.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
Yes, let's normalize our inherently non-normal data for kurtosis and skew. The overwhelming majority of wealth made that drives up the averages is made by less than 5% of graduate earners.
Odds are those guys were going to be successful anyways so it's opportunity cost as I mentioned.
Use the mode instead of the mean.
Now reverse the process for non-graduates to adjust for people that college would have never benefited anyways.
Aka you can't fix stupid.
We haven't even talked about market projection and demographics out over tim.
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
There is too much money in financial aid right now that draws too many people into the game. Then again, you don't want it to be a rich man's game either. There is a rough cut people use to describe what it used to be and what it is now by referencing Harvard: 50 years ago Harvard was 75% rich kids of varying degrees of intelligence (see the Kennedys) and 25% brilliant kids. Today, it's flipped, and even Harvard admissions references the "happy bottom 25%", meaning wealthy and hooked kids who will graduate in the bottom 25% and be happy just to have the degree as a social credential.
I often wonder if we need to go back to that. Let the rich have their spots because in the end they pay for everything, but make sure there is a mechanism to find and develop talent coming from various socio-economic backgrounds. There are too many "middle bell curve" kids spending money - the government's or their parent's - going to college and barely getting anything out of it.
The thing that makes this topic difficult is the same thing that makes most topics difficult: subtlety. There are soft reasons for getting an education that goes beyond ROI. There's the experience of it and the other things that are harder to pinpoint. If you go to school with smart kids, that will rub off too. There's little question that it can make you better all around even if you're not that gifted to begin with. But at what cost?
There are legions of kids going to college on mom & dad's dime who are entirely checking the box. I mean, check the fucking box and are barely more intellectually developed than when they got there. Education can be a great thing but you have to actually get one and you have to make it so that it is economically feasible. I myself don't care about the 4-year ROI measure. I play the the long game. But you can't be saddled with six-figure debt for a bachelor's degree.
Most jobs, even prestigious jobs, don't actually require discrete and measurable cognitive skills. They do however, prefer people with higher credentials because of socitety-wide academic credential inflation.
College is also preferable for middle-class mating. Not just for the opportunity for to hook up with enormous varieties of potential partners, but also for social prestige thereafter. Try getting an attractive, upwardly-mobile girlfriend without a college degree and decent-seeming job. People with more education also tend to have more successful marriages and create more stable families. College tends to be the crucible of this social process.
Lastly, the environment of college is considered inherently pleasurable by many people.
That said, a seriously earnest kid who wants to start a plumbing business (as in, eventually having people do the actual work for him while he invests capital and directs traffic) is preferable to me than a kid who spends 4 years drunk at Cuog, learns next to nothing, scrapes by and confuses the fact that he was rush chairman of his frat with prestige. He ain't got no fucking prestige, and the future plumber is already well ahead of him.
However, in the generally widespread absence of high-wage blue collar work many young people don't see a lot of great options out there. If you go to college you might feel like you're on the right track, at least for a few years.
There's always a few people in the tech industry who didn't go to college, and it's not always necessary for that, but the money, research, and personal networks are clustered around the high prestige institutions.
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The biggest threat to black America is the UW football program, confirmed.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
Junior Adams is this New Years Jordan Banks for Sub K. Just like Banks, Adams will be what he is. A marginal piece in a program. But preach on! Get the message out there! UW bad!FireCohen said:
Yes, but he is the most suicidal/racist. He takes the cake for that categoryGreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
*We have dnc to thank. His bullying turned lamichaellacorleone from a race baiting faggot into sniveling emo race baiting faggot.
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Not reading that. Just win football games.Kingdome_Urinals said:
College is simply associated with social prestige and higher earnings. Even if college grads don't always make more money, it doesn't really matter. Mass higher education is a social norm in the developed world and middle-class people will do whatever it takes to maintain social prestige.creepycoug said:
I have come around to agreeing with this view, overcoming a huge emotional bias on my part in the process. But at today's prices it's hard to justify for at least 50% of the college-attending population.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
Yes, let's normalize our inherently non-normal data for kurtosis and skew. The overwhelming majority of wealth made that drives up the averages is made by less than 5% of graduate earners.
Odds are those guys were going to be successful anyways so it's opportunity cost as I mentioned.
Use the mode instead of the mean.
Now reverse the process for non-graduates to adjust for people that college would have never benefited anyways.
Aka you can't fix stupid.
We haven't even talked about market projection and demographics out over tim.
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
There is too much money in financial aid right now that draws too many people into the game. Then again, you don't want it to be a rich man's game either. There is a rough cut people use to describe what it used to be and what it is now by referencing Harvard: 50 years ago Harvard was 75% rich kids of varying degrees of intelligence (see the Kennedys) and 25% brilliant kids. Today, it's flipped, and even Harvard admissions references the "happy bottom 25%", meaning wealthy and hooked kids who will graduate in the bottom 25% and be happy just to have the degree as a social credential.
I often wonder if we need to go back to that. Let the rich have their spots because in the end they pay for everything, but make sure there is a mechanism to find and develop talent coming from various socio-economic backgrounds. There are too many "middle bell curve" kids spending money - the government's or their parent's - going to college and barely getting anything out of it.
The thing that makes this topic difficult is the same thing that makes most topics difficult: subtlety. There are soft reasons for getting an education that goes beyond ROI. There's the experience of it and the other things that are harder to pinpoint. If you go to school with smart kids, that will rub off too. There's little question that it can make you better all around even if you're not that gifted to begin with. But at what cost?
There are legions of kids going to college on mom & dad's dime who are entirely checking the box. I mean, check the fucking box and are barely more intellectually developed than when they got there. Education can be a great thing but you have to actually get one and you have to make it so that it is economically feasible. I myself don't care about the 4-year ROI measure. I play the the long game. But you can't be saddled with six-figure debt for a bachelor's degree.
Most jobs, even prestigious jobs, don't actually require discrete and measurable cognitive skills. They do however, prefer people with higher credentials because of socitety-wide academic credential inflation.
College is also preferable for middle-class mating. Not just for the opportunity for to hook up with enormous varieties of potential partners, but also for social prestige thereafter. Try getting an attractive, upwardly-mobile girlfriend without a college degree and decent-seeming job. People with more education also tend to have more successful marriages and create more stable families. College tends to be the crucible of this social process.
Lastly, the environment of college is considered inherently pleasurable by many people. -
Holy cringe.greenblood said:
Indiana is the better job.backthepack said:
Grant Heard please. Worked with Deboer at Indiana. Currently the Co-OC/Wr coach at Indiana. Recruited DK as well. Only making 425k.HFNY said:The question is, who do DeBoer / Grubb hire as WR coach now? Is it possible a WR coach can walk (coach) and chew gum (recruit well) at the same time?
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Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
Greenblood used to be a good poster. The relentless quooking of some of the more recent quool additions seems to rub off on him at times.backthepack said:
Holy cringe.greenblood said:
Indiana is the better job.backthepack said:
Grant Heard please. Worked with Deboer at Indiana. Currently the Co-OC/Wr coach at Indiana. Recruited DK as well. Only making 425k.HFNY said:The question is, who do DeBoer / Grubb hire as WR coach now? Is it possible a WR coach can walk (coach) and chew gum (recruit well) at the same time?
Stupid, empty troll post. Sad. -
Confirmed New Years resolution for Fudgie was turning into a 50 year old fat Karenbackthepack said:
Me. I hate white coaches even more than him.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Is there a fan more racist than SubK?bananasnblondes said:
Just in case anyone was wondering, this guy is taking the coaching change in a very calm and reasoned manner -
I’ve noticed socially that my friends and myself that went to college are much more able to fit in with any type of person better than my friends that stayed home and worked. It does help immensely to get out of your comfort level and have to make new friends.Kingdome_Urinals said:
College is simply associated with social prestige and higher earnings. Even if college grads don't always make more money, it doesn't really matter. Mass higher education is a social norm in the developed world and middle-class people will do whatever it takes to maintain social prestige.creepycoug said:
I have come around to agreeing with this view, overcoming a huge emotional bias on my part in the process. But at today's prices it's hard to justify for at least 50% of the college-attending population.UW_Doog_Bot said:
*sighRatherBeBrewing said:
1. Your observational data aligns with teachers telling kids to learn how to add fractions or they’ll end up as plumbers digging in toilets - but fail to mention that the plumbers make twice as much money as them. However the data I’m referring to is new and shows that based on earnings just two years after graduation 76% of BA/BS degree holders are earning enough to where ten years after graduation they should have recouped their investment.dtd said:
1. Just not true, not today. Using averages from 2 decades ago when people made money writing for newspapers makes no sense. The cash me ousside girl made a million in a weekend showing her meth boobs. Trade schools make way more sense for the vast majority of people.RatherBeBrewing said:I see all these new posts about Junior Adams and I’m relieved to see that it’s just hot talk on the value of a college degree.
Oh no - wait... Oregon hired him? Well. Fuck. Why would we(?) want him(?)
My two thoughts:
1. A college degree is definitely worth it. Even if we forego all the non-tangible benefits of college and just use the raw averages readily available - with the hypothetical $100k of debt, it’s worth it. Unless you plan on living under ~12 years after graduation. Save your outlier examples, we do averages like civilized people.
2. Some of Lanning’s hires don’t make sense. But after Scott Frost all of Oregon’s WR coaches have been shitty, he’s the sixth one since 2016, so it might not matter. If he’s shitty like the rest have been at least its another notch on Oregon’s dicking-of-other-Pac-12-schools belt and a step up from hiring away Leach’s assistants.
2. Memphis of the West
This doesn’t take into account the higher employment rates, health insurance rates, and the rates of not being in poverty. The study is from 2020/21 and didn’t take the rocketing inflation into consideration.
The 24% of those who don’t recoup in ten years should still come out ahead in the long run and the numbers are skewed by more expensive private and for profit institutions. The obvious majors are the ones with poor return: religious studies, anthropology, film, etc.
It’s still true, maybe not as obvious as in the past, but go to a state school and get a degree that isn’t 100% fluff and you’re going to be better off than most people without one.
2. I wish, Memphis had some monster offensive numbers. This feels more like an amalgamation of a watered down, poor man’s Saban/Kirby recruiting wins system, with a strong Jim Mora flavor Jr and Todd Graham aftertaste.
Re: data
Yes, let's normalize our inherently non-normal data for kurtosis and skew. The overwhelming majority of wealth made that drives up the averages is made by less than 5% of graduate earners.
Odds are those guys were going to be successful anyways so it's opportunity cost as I mentioned.
Use the mode instead of the mean.
Now reverse the process for non-graduates to adjust for people that college would have never benefited anyways.
Aka you can't fix stupid.
We haven't even talked about market projection and demographics out over tim.
TLDR YMMV and correlation ain't causation.
There is too much money in financial aid right now that draws too many people into the game. Then again, you don't want it to be a rich man's game either. There is a rough cut people use to describe what it used to be and what it is now by referencing Harvard: 50 years ago Harvard was 75% rich kids of varying degrees of intelligence (see the Kennedys) and 25% brilliant kids. Today, it's flipped, and even Harvard admissions references the "happy bottom 25%", meaning wealthy and hooked kids who will graduate in the bottom 25% and be happy just to have the degree as a social credential.
I often wonder if we need to go back to that. Let the rich have their spots because in the end they pay for everything, but make sure there is a mechanism to find and develop talent coming from various socio-economic backgrounds. There are too many "middle bell curve" kids spending money - the government's or their parent's - going to college and barely getting anything out of it.
The thing that makes this topic difficult is the same thing that makes most topics difficult: subtlety. There are soft reasons for getting an education that goes beyond ROI. There's the experience of it and the other things that are harder to pinpoint. If you go to school with smart kids, that will rub off too. There's little question that it can make you better all around even if you're not that gifted to begin with. But at what cost?
There are legions of kids going to college on mom & dad's dime who are entirely checking the box. I mean, check the fucking box and are barely more intellectually developed than when they got there. Education can be a great thing but you have to actually get one and you have to make it so that it is economically feasible. I myself don't care about the 4-year ROI measure. I play the the long game. But you can't be saddled with six-figure debt for a bachelor's degree.
Most jobs, even prestigious jobs, don't actually require discrete and measurable cognitive skills. They do however, prefer people with higher credentials because of socitety-wide academic credential inflation.
College is also preferable for middle-class mating. Not just for the opportunity for to hook up with enormous varieties of potential partners, but also for social prestige thereafter. Try getting an attractive, upwardly-mobile girlfriend without a college degree and decent-seeming job. People with more education also tend to have more successful marriages and create more stable families. College tends to be the crucible of this social process.
Lastly, the environment of college is considered inherently pleasurable by many people.
