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GreenRiverGatorz

4 Years After an Execution, a Different Man’s DNA Is Found on the Murder Weapon

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/us/ledell-lee-dna-testing-arkansas.html?smid=url-share

hardhat

No worries, just issue a retraction?

In seriousness, this shouldn't happen. I know this thread will devolve into nuclear war and then kobe will post about slavery, but this is wrong. I hope our criminal justice system can be reformed, not abolished.

GreenRiverGatorz

hardhat said:

No worries, just issue a retraction?

In seriousness, this shouldn't happen. I know this thread will devolve into nuclear war and then kobe will post about slavery, but this is wrong. I hope our criminal justice system can be reformed, not abolished.

There's definitely a racial component that some people will fixate on, but the real issue is the state deliberately deciding take a life. Most people should be uncomfortable with that.

GrundleStiltzkin

GreenRiverGatorz said:

hardhat said:

No worries, just issue a retraction?

In seriousness, this shouldn't happen. I know this thread will devolve into nuclear war and then kobe will post about slavery, but this is wrong. I hope our criminal justice system can be reformed, not abolished.

There's definitely a racial component that some people will fixate on, but the real issue is the state deliberately deciding take a life. Most people should be uncomfortable with that.

Agree. There's no appeal from death.

Sledog

Useless. Can't read the details. I don't subscribe to the NYT nor would I ever.

WestlinnDuck

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

GreenRiverGatorz

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

hardhat

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

WestlinnDuck

Yeah. It's not that hard.

SFGbob

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

GrundleStiltzkin

GreenRiverGatorz said:

4 Years After an Execution, a Different Man’s DNA Is Found on the Murder Weapon

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/us/ledell-lee-dna-testing-arkansas.html?smid=url-share

I have no idea what the law is here. However, with as a much talk about removing qualified immunity from cops, if there's any protections for prosecutors, those should be removed too.

WestlinnDuck

GrundleStiltzkin said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

4 Years After an Execution, a Different Man’s DNA Is Found on the Murder Weapon

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/07/us/ledell-lee-dna-testing-arkansas.html?smid=url-share

I have no idea what the law is here. However, with as a much talk about removing qualified immunity from cops, if there's any protections for prosecutors, those should be removed too.

I'm ambivalent about removing all qualified immunity from cops since most of their actions require quick decisions. But planting evidence or lying should have qualified immunity. Prosecutors are not making quick decisions.

GreenRiverGatorz

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

Aren't all criminal convictions made "without a reasonable doubt"? The point here is that no court system is infallible, so trying to distinguish between which convictions we're sure about and which could maybe have room for error is all the more reason to remove the possibility of the state executing an innocent person.

RaceBannon

I don't have a problem with executions

I do have a problem with prosecutor misconduct

That may not make dawg sense but still

Prosecutors are lawyers that can fuck up your life or end it in the pursuit of higher office.

DNA was a mystery in the OJ era. Now its considered infallible

Should have been tested before the execution

Prosecutors and cops fuck with DNA too

SFGbob

GreenRiverGatorz said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

Aren't all criminal convictions made "without a reasonable doubt"? The point here is that no court system is infallible, so trying to distinguish between which convictions we're sure about and which could maybe have room for error is all the more reason to remove the possibility of the state executing an innocent person.

There are cases like this one where the identity of the perp is at issue. That's not the case with Major Hassan. We know he did it. There's not a possibility of mistaken identity. Polly Klaas's killer doesn't even deny that he was the guy who did it.

Dylan Roof should have been executed immediately have he was found guilty. There's no chance they got the wrong guy.

GreenRiverGatorz

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

Aren't all criminal convictions made "without a reasonable doubt"? The point here is that no court system is infallible, so trying to distinguish between which convictions we're sure about and which could maybe have room for error is all the more reason to remove the possibility of the state executing an innocent person.

There are cases like this one where the identity of the perp is at issue. That's not the case with Major Hassan. We know he did it. There's not a possibility of mistaken identity. Polly Klaas's killer doesn't even deny that he was the guy who did it.

Dylan Roof should have been executed immediately have he was found guilty. There's no chance they got the wrong guy.

We agree about specific cases. The problem is putting an apparatus in place that can make these decisions at a large scale with 100% accuracy. Anything less than 100% is unacceptable, and I don't think we can achieve it.

SFGbob

GreenRiverGatorz said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

Aren't all criminal convictions made "without a reasonable doubt"? The point here is that no court system is infallible, so trying to distinguish between which convictions we're sure about and which could maybe have room for error is all the more reason to remove the possibility of the state executing an innocent person.

There are cases like this one where the identity of the perp is at issue. That's not the case with Major Hassan. We know he did it. There's not a possibility of mistaken identity. Polly Klaas's killer doesn't even deny that he was the guy who did it.

Dylan Roof should have been executed immediately have he was found guilty. There's no chance they got the wrong guy.

We agree about specific cases. The problem is putting an apparatus in place that can make these decisions at a large scale with 100% accuracy. Anything less than 100% is unacceptable, and I don't think we can achieve it.

Cases where identity is an issue. "It wasn't me" Could be treated differently. Plenty of cases where there is no identity issue, where the death penalty should be meted out as if our judicial system was run by Islamic clerics.

RaceBannon

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

Aren't all criminal convictions made "without a reasonable doubt"? The point here is that no court system is infallible, so trying to distinguish between which convictions we're sure about and which could maybe have room for error is all the more reason to remove the possibility of the state executing an innocent person.

There are cases like this one where the identity of the perp is at issue. That's not the case with Major Hassan. We know he did it. There's not a possibility of mistaken identity. Polly Klaas's killer doesn't even deny that he was the guy who did it.

Dylan Roof should have been executed immediately have he was found guilty. There's no chance they got the wrong guy.

THEY BOUGHT HIM A HAMBURGER

I just like having the option to off folks like this

Older readers may remember Gary Gilmore who asked for the firing squad

WestlinnDuck

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

Aren't all criminal convictions made "without a reasonable doubt"? The point here is that no court system is infallible, so trying to distinguish between which convictions we're sure about and which could maybe have room for error is all the more reason to remove the possibility of the state executing an innocent person.

There are cases like this one where the identity of the perp is at issue. That's not the case with Major Hassan. We know he did it. There's not a possibility of mistaken identity. Polly Klaas's killer doesn't even deny that he was the guy who did it.

Dylan Roof should have been executed immediately have he was found guilty. There's no chance they got the wrong guy.

Hell, Polly Klaas's killer even took the cops to where he ditched the body.

SFGbob

WestlinnDuck said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

Aren't all criminal convictions made "without a reasonable doubt"? The point here is that no court system is infallible, so trying to distinguish between which convictions we're sure about and which could maybe have room for error is all the more reason to remove the possibility of the state executing an innocent person.

There are cases like this one where the identity of the perp is at issue. That's not the case with Major Hassan. We know he did it. There's not a possibility of mistaken identity. Polly Klaas's killer doesn't even deny that he was the guy who did it.

Dylan Roof should have been executed immediately have he was found guilty. There's no chance they got the wrong guy.

Hell, Polly Klaas's killer even took the cops to where he ditched the body.

Yes, but can you say with 100% accuracy that they convicted and executed the right guy?

hardhat

GreenRiverGatorz said:

SFGbob said:

GreenRiverGatorz said:

WestlinnDuck said:

The fact is that whenever any national leftard news source deals with a capital criminal case it is usually full of either lies or obfuscation. Go check on the Mumia case. Look at how the George Floyd and Trayvon cases were reported. Anyway, my position is that the death penalty should only be imposed when there is no doubt. It shouldn't take a decade to off Major Hassan and why is Polly Klaas's killer still alive?

When is there no doubt?

In both of the cases he cited there's no doubt that they convicted the person who committed the murders. Same with Scott Peterson.

Aren't all criminal convictions made "without a reasonable doubt"? The point here is that no court system is infallible, so trying to distinguish between which convictions we're sure about and which could maybe have room for error is all the more reason to remove the possibility of the state executing an innocent person.

Knowing how America works, and because I'm cynical, I'm certain we'll come up with a TSA style system in the future where everyone is miserable in order to make things fair. Somewhere between the movie Brazil and Idiocracy. At least in Idiocracy you'd be able to trick the guards into letting you out of prison.