Advice on Buying Land/Building a House
Not sure if I'll do it or not, but I wanted to hear from anyone who has done it, thought about done it, or decided against it.
Comments
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What, specifically, would you like to know? I've done it, but it was six years ago, a different county, I did 80% of the work, etc. Everyone's experience will be different depending on market, location, quality builder and/or subs, etc. If you'd like some tips for efficient/long lasting construction techniques, I can point you toward some things. If you'd like horror stories about suddenly discovered "wetlands" derailing your project for a whole year, I can help there, too. If you'd like to learn about a toilet that will reliably flush an elephant shit, I can point you in the right direction.
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Please point to said toilet. My wife and I alternate days unclogging toilets. Elephant shits.1to392831weretaken said:What, specifically, would you like to know? I've done it, but it was six years ago, a different county, I did 80% of the work, etc. Everyone's experience will be different depending on market, location, quality builder and/or subs, etc. If you'd like some tips for efficient/long lasting construction techniques, I can point you toward some things. If you'd like horror stories about suddenly discovered "wetlands" derailing your project for a whole year, I can help there, too. If you'd like to learn about a toilet that will reliably flush an elephant shit, I can point you in the right direction.
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There is really a lot to unpack here, of which a lot is dependent on your goals.whatshouldicareabout said:I've had the idea for a little while now and only started browsing what's available in KingCo (suburbs). I know timber prices are climbing, so I wouldn't look to build right away, so maybe just grab something soon and then really plan things out.
Not sure if I'll do it or not, but I wanted to hear from anyone who has done it, thought about done it, or decided against it.
First questions are how much land do you want? and how far in-out of town do you want to be?
Are you looking for an improved lot? Meaning: does it have utilities in place, or are you prepared to get them there? Sewer or septic?
From there, the most important thing is: is the lot buildable? Are there wetlands or critical slope to worry about? Will the governing municipality even let you build what it is you want?
There are almost an endless number of questions. Add nuances to each question thereto.
Good luck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhX9adzG9c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWAWHjJMrrM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev3XI7qEJ0U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phv3i1ZmxNs
*I have not watched any of these, they were just at the top of the Ewetoobs. -
City boy shows up in a new area and sees a nice piece of land (17 beautiful acres with scenic vistas for a view), walks it endlessly and sees no possible issues ~ multiple good locations to site a custom house, has plenty of construction experience, very familiar with zoning and the permitting process... what could possibly go wrong?
So it turns out that the land that we were in contract with is plagued with never ending issues that were not disclosed to us... a big surprise was on the horizon for us that we were fortunate to avoid.
The story was that seller lives out of the area, had inherited the land from her deceased husband that had inherited the land from his family ~ and reportedly, no-one in the family had lived on the property for a generation or more, so the seller represents that they know virtually nothing about
the property except that it has been in the family for 75 years. (A giant lie)
On day two of the contract period, the next door neighbor to our daughter that lives in the area heard that we were buying the property across the street and sounded the alarm to our daughter about the dreaded Tiger Salamander Conservation zone issue for the area that the land is part of, and warns that it might have some effect regarding our ability to build on the property.
So we get calls to advise me of the neighbors concern and I think to myself, how big of a problem could that possibly be? No big deal right?
So I look up the issue and start to do research on the subject and it turns out that yes, the property [and all of the property in the surrounding area] is located in this designated conservation zone and that the area had only recently [2011] been reclassified into that category.
Turns out that virtually all of the structures that populated the area [very low density rural] had been permitted and constructed prior to the recharacterization, but if you just drove into the area and looked around you would never guess that there is any kind of limitation issue.
So, to get around the issue, apparently all you have to do is hire a geologist & botanist (?!) to come and survey the property and write a report that claims that your building project will have no effect on the habitat and migration patterns of the dreaded Tiger Salamander population that the various state and federal environmentalists have apparently fought to the death to defend. {and then hope that works, because if it doesn't you are in for possibly several years of environmental mitigation studies to decide what if anything you can build on the land]
So we look into the habitat and migration of the lizards in question, read the discussion of the required "vernal pools" [whatever that is] that they need to hatch and spawn, and read that they then migrate within1.3 miles to reside in burrows that ground squirrels and gophers dig and abandon.
Apparently, no-one ever sees these critters because they live underground, only come out at night periodically, and only migrate to the vernal pool in the late fall for a couple of week period before heading back to the burrow.
So we look around the property and are relieved to note that their are no apparent gopher holes, although we do know that our daughter's property is loaded with gopher holes, but hey, that doesn't matter in this situation. And fortunately, the property does not contain any "vernal pools" that we can see, nor do any of the surrounding lots in the area, and we feel like we would know because we have been visiting the property across the street to see our daughter regularly since we moved here 9 months ago.
What we didn't know and what was not disclosed to us, nor was it in the parcel disclosures, is that the middle 4-6 acres of the property floods regularly during the usual rainy season here, and that the depth of the pool that is formed in 1-2 feet deep and about 3 acres wide, forming a huge water feature which is present from the late October / November period all the way through to as late as July in a more "normal" year. We don’t know this because last fall and ever sense we have been in the area we have been in a drought and consequently there has been no standing water on the property this year.
That description turns out to be the classic definition of a "vernal pool", the ideal habitat for the destination of migrating lizards within the surrounding area. Too funny. It also brings into clarity the depth of the water table vs a perk test for the porperty which is quite obviously different than the 50 feet level that we had previously measured at our daughter’s nearby property during the purchase of that property a year ago
So we dodged a bullet.
Turns out that even though nothing regarding restrictions shows up on any of the parcel discussion and title reports, and if you call the zoning department regarding permits they simply advise you that you are free to build x number of structures per parcel with no limitations, the truth is the area is subject to an undisclosed fish and wildlife enforced wildlife use easement that you are required to clear via the mitigation study and and payola route [if you are successful], all of which is elliptical, expensive and time consuming ~ with no guaranteed outcome.
The capper is that the "mitigation" fee is assessed on a case by case basis and can as high as $200,000 per acre... funds raised are a primary source employed to create natural habitat preserves to conserve the threatened species.
Lovely.
Anyway, good times, we were fortunate to have been alerted and to be able to come to the correct conclusions prior to having to sue for material misrepresentation / failure to disclose at a later date.
The world is a wondrous place. Buyer beware, interview the neighbors, don’t just rely on title reports or sellers disclosures, do your homework, and good luck to you. -
What I'd be curious about was what factors led you to the decision to buy land/build a house instead of buy a house and the decision to do 80% of the work instead of hiring a builder. I could never dream of doing that work myself, so I'll need to have a builder do that and all the subcontracting, which I know will be expensive but less risky.1to392831weretaken said:What, specifically, would you like to know? I've done it, but it was six years ago, a different county, I did 80% of the work, etc. Everyone's experience will be different depending on market, location, quality builder and/or subs, etc. If you'd like some tips for efficient/long lasting construction techniques, I can point you toward some things. If you'd like horror stories about suddenly discovered "wetlands" derailing your project for a whole year, I can help there, too. If you'd like to learn about a toilet that will reliably flush an elephant shit, I can point you in the right direction.
The second thing I'm interested in is relative value between building a new home and a new construction. I'm really in an exploratory phase, looking around at neighborhoods with land open to acreage properties to new constructions. I'm not in any rush to buy a new home or move, especially considering the inflated market in KingCo. -
Pref less than an acre, distance to town isn't a factor but most of the lots I've looked at are within city limits, improve lot would be ideal with sewer. I've looked at some places by wetlands and with slopes, but they have adjacent homes. Have no clue what building permits/zoning/height restrictions would be in place given all of the different municipalities in KingCo, but that'd be on my list to research.pawz said:
There is really a lot to unpack here, of which a lot is dependent on your goals.whatshouldicareabout said:I've had the idea for a little while now and only started browsing what's available in KingCo (suburbs). I know timber prices are climbing, so I wouldn't look to build right away, so maybe just grab something soon and then really plan things out.
Not sure if I'll do it or not, but I wanted to hear from anyone who has done it, thought about done it, or decided against it.
First questions are how much land do you want? and how far in-out of town do you want to be?
Are you looking for an improved lot? Meaning: does it have utilities in place, or are you prepared to get them there? Sewer or septic?
From there, the most important thing is: is the lot buildable? Are there wetlands or critical slope to worry about? Will the governing municipality even let you build what it is you want?
There are almost an endless number of questions. Add nuances to each question thereto.
Good luck.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhX9adzG9chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWAWHjJMrrMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev3XI7qEJ0Uhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phv3i1ZmxNs
*I have not watched any of these, they were just at the top of the Ewetoobs.
I'll check out these videos tonight. -
Thanks for the story and the moral of really doing the research on the property before buying. I guess that's one of the benefits of a new construction is knowing that some of those issues are resolved prior to developers even considering to build.DawgsCanDance said:City boy shows up in a new area and sees a nice piece of land (17 beautiful acres with scenic vistas for a view), walks it endlessly and sees no possible issues ~ multiple good locations to site a custom house, has plenty of construction experience, very familiar with zoning and the permitting process... what could possibly go wrong?
So it turns out that the land that we were in contract with is plagued with never ending issues that were not disclosed to us... a big surprise was on the horizon for us that we were fortunate to avoid.
The story was that seller lives out of the area, had inherited the land from her deceased husband that had inherited the land from his family ~ and reportedly, no-one in the family had lived on the property for a generation or more, so the seller represents that they know virtually nothing about
the property except that it has been in the family for 75 years. (A giant lie)
On day two of the contract period, the next door neighbor to our daughter that lives in the area heard that we were buying the property across the street and sounded the alarm to our daughter about the dreaded Tiger Salamander Conservation zone issue for the area that the land is part of, and warns that it might have some effect regarding our ability to build on the property.
So we get calls to advise me of the neighbors concern and I think to myself, how big of a problem could that possibly be? No big deal right?
So I look up the issue and start to do research on the subject and it turns out that yes, the property [and all of the property in the surrounding area] is located in this designated conservation zone and that the area had only recently [2011] been reclassified into that category.
Turns out that virtually all of the structures that populated the area [very low density rural] had been permitted and constructed prior to the recharacterization, but if you just drove into the area and looked around you would never guess that there is any kind of limitation issue.
So, to get around the issue, apparently all you have to do is hire a geologist & botanist (?!) to come and survey the property and write a report that claims that your building project will have no effect on the habitat and migration patterns of the dreaded Tiger Salamander population that the various state and federal environmentalists have apparently fought to the death to defend. {and then hope that works, because if it doesn't you are in for possibly several years of environmental mitigation studies to decide what if anything you can build on the land]
So we look into the habitat and migration of the lizards in question, read the discussion of the required "vernal pools" [whatever that is] that they need to hatch and spawn, and read that they then migrate within1.3 miles to reside in burrows that ground squirrels and gophers dig and abandon.
Apparently, no-one ever sees these critters because they live underground, only come out at night periodically, and only migrate to the vernal pool in the late fall for a couple of week period before heading back to the burrow.
So we look around the property and are relieved to note that their are no apparent gopher holes, although we do know that our daughter's property is loaded with gopher holes, but hey, that doesn't matter in this situation. And fortunately, the property does not contain any "vernal pools" that we can see, nor do any of the surrounding lots in the area, and we feel like we would know because we have been visiting the property across the street to see our daughter regularly since we moved here 9 months ago.
What we didn't know and what was not disclosed to us, nor was it in the parcel disclosures, is that the middle 4-6 acres of the property floods regularly during the usual rainy season here, and that the depth of the pool that is formed in 1-2 feet deep and about 3 acres wide, forming a huge water feature which is present from the late October / November period all the way through to as late as July in a more "normal" year. We don’t know this because last fall and ever sense we have been in the area we have been in a drought and consequently there has been no standing water on the property this year.
That description turns out to be the classic definition of a "vernal pool", the ideal habitat for the destination of migrating lizards within the surrounding area. Too funny. It also brings into clarity the depth of the water table vs a perk test for the porperty which is quite obviously different than the 50 feet level that we had previously measured at our daughter’s nearby property during the purchase of that property a year ago
So we dodged a bullet.
Turns out that even though nothing regarding restrictions shows up on any of the parcel discussion and title reports, and if you call the zoning department regarding permits they simply advise you that you are free to build x number of structures per parcel with no limitations, the truth is the area is subject to an undisclosed fish and wildlife enforced wildlife use easement that you are required to clear via the mitigation study and and payola route [if you are successful], all of which is elliptical, expensive and time consuming ~ with no guaranteed outcome.
The capper is that the "mitigation" fee is assessed on a case by case basis and can as high as $200,000 per acre... funds raised are a primary source employed to create natural habitat preserves to conserve the threatened species.
Lovely.
Anyway, good times, we were fortunate to have been alerted and to be able to come to the correct conclusions prior to having to sue for material misrepresentation / failure to disclose at a later date.
The world is a wondrous place. Buyer beware, interview the neighbors, don’t just rely on title reports or sellers disclosures, do your homework, and good luck to you. -
Well sometimes you don't have a lot of time [or any] before you pull the trigger on something super attractive, so make sure to write into the contract the contingency that provides enough time to sort out your potential issues, and then do the work of it.
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Feasibility.DawgsCanDance said:Well sometimes you don't have a lot of time [or any] before you pull the trigger on something super attractive, so make sure to write into the contract the contingency that provides enough time to sort out your potential issues, and then do the work of it.
To determine what you might pay for a plot of dirt, builders often use the rule of thirds. Until recently the theory held that what a builder would pay for improved dirt wold be one/third the cost of the finished product. 1/3 for dirt, 1/3 building/construction cost and the final-third for marketing, selling costs and profit.One builder in West Bellevue wouldn't pay more than 30% for a buildible lot.
Obviously an end-user can afford to pay more for dirt because they have a lot of room to play with given the freedom from the final 1/3rd.
Best advice is to focus on finding an already improved lot. Having to do the improving can be very tricky. There are plenty of Salamander stories to go around. 100. -
I posted a story on the tug about a distribution center in Moreno Valley (scrubland) that was proposed in 2012.
Approved in 2015.
Since then has been in negotiations with "environmentalists"
6 years later and a 47 million dollar check and ground can be broken.
Imagine the holding costs so far
This isn't housing but still revealing
