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Hamilton holds off Verstappen to win tense F1 season-opener
Comments
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Agree. I thought it was one of the better seasons I've seen. When it comes down to the last lap of the last race to decide everything, that's a quality season.
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Total nonsense, Lewis was the faster car the entire day. He pulled away from Max immediately after "cutting the corner". Massive advantage? Jesus christ man, Max was given a free pit stop and 4 spots of track position for nothing. Hell, they effectively added an extra lap to the race, just for Max. I think Lewis should have been required to give the position back, but he would have taken Max in a lap or 2 regardless. One is a judgment call, the other is the race director deciding to outright break multiple rules to help one driver.1to392831weretaken said:Thing is Hamilton already got away with a massive advantage from cutting the corner, so seemed the teams were even from the stewards.
How totally F1, though, for a championship to be decided by race direction with a safety car decision. Good year overall, though.
All backmarkers must be let through, not just the ones between p1 and p2, AND the rules say that the safety car can't leave the track until the lap AFTER backmarkers overtake. Every single other race would have ended under behind the SC. If Masi had let all the backmarkers through, they wouldn't have been able to do so until the final lap, and the race would have finished behind the SC. There's zero precedent for either of those things ever happening before, and Masi did em both. Think about that. With the current rules, in F1 history, neither of those things had ever been allowed to happen.
If Masi had not originally prevented the backmakers from overtaking, which surprised all the drivers, then Lewis would have boxed and Max would have been the one out in front on 30 lap old tires or he could have come in as well and remained in p2. At least in that case we'd have actually had a real race on the final lap, instead of that farce where one driver was allowed to put new softs on for free and the other was forced to stay out on 44 lap old tires. Motor racing indeed.
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Eh. I didn't watch the race, just the highlights, plus I don't really care. I come from two-wheeled racing, where the idea of a race finishing behind a safety car is ludicrous, and have only recently taken a passive interest in F1. Seems you're pretty passionate about it, so I'm probably going to let you down by not arguing with you. To me, just watching the highlights, all I could think is that at least a championship wasn't won on a parade lap.dtd said:
Total nonsense, Lewis was the faster car the entire day. He pulled away from Max immediately after "cutting the corner". Massive advantage? Jesus christ man, Max was given a free pit stop and 4 spots of track position for nothing. Hell, they effectively added an extra lap to the race, just for Max. I think Lewis should have been required to give the position back, but he would have taken Max in a lap or 2 regardless. One is a judgment call, the other is the race director deciding to outright break multiple rules to help one driver.1to392831weretaken said:Thing is Hamilton already got away with a massive advantage from cutting the corner, so seemed the teams were even from the stewards.
How totally F1, though, for a championship to be decided by race direction with a safety car decision. Good year overall, though.
All backmarkers must be let through, not just the ones between p1 and p2, AND the rules say that the safety car can't leave the track until the lap AFTER backmarkers overtake. Every single other race would have ended under behind the SC. If Masi had let all the backmarkers through, they wouldn't have been able to do so until the final lap, and the race would have finished behind the SC. There's zero precedent for either of those things ever happening before, and Masi did em both. Think about that. With the current rules, in F1 history, neither of those things had ever been allowed to happen.
If Masi had not originally prevented the backmakers from overtaking, which surprised all the drivers, then Lewis would have boxed and Max would have been the one out in front on 30 lap old tires or he could have come in as well and remained in p2. At least in that case we'd have actually had a real race on the final lap, instead of that farce where one driver was allowed to put new softs on for free and the other was forced to stay out on 44 lap old tires. Motor racing indeed. -
It's hard to mock it as racing while you lobby for them to finish behind a safety car, isn't it?dtd said:
Total nonsense, Lewis was the faster car the entire day. He pulled away from Max immediately after "cutting the corner". Massive advantage? Jesus christ man, Max was given a free pit stop and 4 spots of track position for nothing. Hell, they effectively added an extra lap to the race, just for Max. I think Lewis should have been required to give the position back, but he would have taken Max in a lap or 2 regardless. One is a judgment call, the other is the race director deciding to outright break multiple rules to help one driver.1to392831weretaken said:Thing is Hamilton already got away with a massive advantage from cutting the corner, so seemed the teams were even from the stewards.
How totally F1, though, for a championship to be decided by race direction with a safety car decision. Good year overall, though.
All backmarkers must be let through, not just the ones between p1 and p2, AND the rules say that the safety car can't leave the track until the lap AFTER backmarkers overtake. Every single other race would have ended under behind the SC. If Masi had let all the backmarkers through, they wouldn't have been able to do so until the final lap, and the race would have finished behind the SC. There's zero precedent for either of those things ever happening before, and Masi did em both. Think about that. With the current rules, in F1 history, neither of those things had ever been allowed to happen.
If Masi had not originally prevented the backmakers from overtaking, which surprised all the drivers, then Lewis would have boxed and Max would have been the one out in front on 30 lap old tires or he could have come in as well and remained in p2. At least in that case we'd have actually had a real race on the final lap, instead of that farce where one driver was allowed to put new softs on for free and the other was forced to stay out on 44 lap old tires. Motor racing indeed.
All the talk at this point is just crying about the refs. It was a great season and there's a new champion. I got over Senna taking out my man Prost to win the championship in the last race back in the day, and you'll get over your sore ass about Hamilton. -
This is like complaining about someone being upset if Rob Manfred gave the losing team in game 7 of the world series and extra half inning to score, and then loaded the bases for them.dflea said:
It's hard to mock it as racing while you lobby for them to finish behind a safety car, isn't it?dtd said:
Total nonsense, Lewis was the faster car the entire day. He pulled away from Max immediately after "cutting the corner". Massive advantage? Jesus christ man, Max was given a free pit stop and 4 spots of track position for nothing. Hell, they effectively added an extra lap to the race, just for Max. I think Lewis should have been required to give the position back, but he would have taken Max in a lap or 2 regardless. One is a judgment call, the other is the race director deciding to outright break multiple rules to help one driver.1to392831weretaken said:Thing is Hamilton already got away with a massive advantage from cutting the corner, so seemed the teams were even from the stewards.
How totally F1, though, for a championship to be decided by race direction with a safety car decision. Good year overall, though.
All backmarkers must be let through, not just the ones between p1 and p2, AND the rules say that the safety car can't leave the track until the lap AFTER backmarkers overtake. Every single other race would have ended under behind the SC. If Masi had let all the backmarkers through, they wouldn't have been able to do so until the final lap, and the race would have finished behind the SC. There's zero precedent for either of those things ever happening before, and Masi did em both. Think about that. With the current rules, in F1 history, neither of those things had ever been allowed to happen.
If Masi had not originally prevented the backmakers from overtaking, which surprised all the drivers, then Lewis would have boxed and Max would have been the one out in front on 30 lap old tires or he could have come in as well and remained in p2. At least in that case we'd have actually had a real race on the final lap, instead of that farce where one driver was allowed to put new softs on for free and the other was forced to stay out on 44 lap old tires. Motor racing indeed.
All the talk at this point is just crying about the refs. It was a great season and there's a new champion. I got over Senna taking out my man Prost to win the championship in the last race back in the day, and you'll get over your sore ass about Hamilton.
I'm lobbying for Masi to have let all the backmarkers through, so at the very least Max would have had to defend from Sainz, you know, like in a motor race. In the history of F1 this rule has never been bent(read: broken) like this before, and it was used to decide the championship. If this had happened to Verstappen I'd feel the same way, would you? -
No, it's nothing like that.dtd said:
This is like complaining about someone being upset if Rob Manfred gave the losing team in game 7 of the world series and extra half inning to score, and then loaded the bases for them.dflea said:
It's hard to mock it as racing while you lobby for them to finish behind a safety car, isn't it?dtd said:
Total nonsense, Lewis was the faster car the entire day. He pulled away from Max immediately after "cutting the corner". Massive advantage? Jesus christ man, Max was given a free pit stop and 4 spots of track position for nothing. Hell, they effectively added an extra lap to the race, just for Max. I think Lewis should have been required to give the position back, but he would have taken Max in a lap or 2 regardless. One is a judgment call, the other is the race director deciding to outright break multiple rules to help one driver.1to392831weretaken said:Thing is Hamilton already got away with a massive advantage from cutting the corner, so seemed the teams were even from the stewards.
How totally F1, though, for a championship to be decided by race direction with a safety car decision. Good year overall, though.
All backmarkers must be let through, not just the ones between p1 and p2, AND the rules say that the safety car can't leave the track until the lap AFTER backmarkers overtake. Every single other race would have ended under behind the SC. If Masi had let all the backmarkers through, they wouldn't have been able to do so until the final lap, and the race would have finished behind the SC. There's zero precedent for either of those things ever happening before, and Masi did em both. Think about that. With the current rules, in F1 history, neither of those things had ever been allowed to happen.
If Masi had not originally prevented the backmakers from overtaking, which surprised all the drivers, then Lewis would have boxed and Max would have been the one out in front on 30 lap old tires or he could have come in as well and remained in p2. At least in that case we'd have actually had a real race on the final lap, instead of that farce where one driver was allowed to put new softs on for free and the other was forced to stay out on 44 lap old tires. Motor racing indeed.
All the talk at this point is just crying about the refs. It was a great season and there's a new champion. I got over Senna taking out my man Prost to win the championship in the last race back in the day, and you'll get over your sore ass about Hamilton.
I'm lobbying for Masi to have let all the backmarkers through, so at the very least Max would have had to defend from Sainz, you know, like in a motor race. In the history of F1 this rule has never been bent(read: broken) like this before, and it was used to decide the championship. If this had happened to Verstappen I'd feel the same way, would you?
I'm not a Max homer. I'm not a Hamilton Homer, either. I like good racing, and that's what took place.
Any race could have decided the championship this year, you just decided that this was the one that matters - not the races where Hamilton was the beneficiary of the funny business that happens in F1 all the time. .
Stay sore about it if you want. It won't change anything. Senna has the world title from 1990 and Max is going to have it for 2021 and there's fuckall either one of us can do about it.
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There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars passed. Therefore the safety car period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected.
- Michael Masi
October 11, 2020
How can you say putting Max on Lewis' gear box with 43 lap newer tires, with nobody behind Max, was "good racing"? The rest of the field didn't even race the final lap. The race was over the second Masi let those 5 cars through, there was no FINAL LAP SHOWDOWN DUN DUN DUN. It was shooting fish in a barrel. Lewis dominated for 53 laps but it can't end behind the safety car, like F1 races have ended literally dozens of times before, including the final race of the season? Because it would have been anticlimactic the rules get changed?
Latifi's car was cleared at the end of lap 56, Masi could easily have let all the back-markers through, but instead he waited until there were what, 10 seconds left on lap 57 to make Lewis a sitting duck? Both Mercedes and RB made tactical decisions based on the rules. If Merc had pit, do you think Masi would have done the same thing, or would the race have ended behind the SC, with Max as champion?
I don't have a problem with the SC exiting prematurely, there is precedent for that, but not with 10 seconds notice, and there is of course zero precedent for letting the partial un-lapping occur. When Masi himself says just last year that it's a requirement, and then doesn't follow it, that is fucked up.
There's an international fraud investigation into the FIA right now. People are already upset with the consistency of the judgment and application of the regulations from race to race, and yet in the same race Masi applied the exact same rule differently to different cars on track at the exact same time.
Also, fuck Senna and fuck Schumi. -
Fuck Senna? Schumacher?
FUCK YOU! -
Leave it to a Duck to have the most retarded F1 take ever.
Don't act like you're Toto Fucking Wolf, be entertained.
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There's a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars passed.
- Michael Masi
October 11, 2020 -
See?
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Filthy casuals.
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What should have happened is a red flag. Stop the race. Let the drivers pit, new tires, and then re-start.
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Race would not have restarted from a red flag due to 75% completion rule, right? Result would be the finishing order of the second to last complete lap?BennyBeaver said:What should have happened is a red flag. Stop the race. Let the drivers pit, new tires, and then re-start.
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Rules? Apparently the rules go out the window when they want them too, right @dtd ?1to392831weretaken said:
Race would not have restarted from a red flag due to 75% completion rule, right? Result would be the finishing order of the second to last complete lap?BennyBeaver said:What should have happened is a red flag. Stop the race. Let the drivers pit, new tires, and then re-start.
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Casuals.
lol
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I mean, it's the FIA so who knows, but that's only for certain circumstances. They would have restarted. Red flag would have been the better fudging of the rules if they actually wanted to "go motor racing". Grid would have been in order and all on the same tires.1to392831weretaken said:
Race would not have restarted from a red flag due to 75% completion rule, right? Result would be the finishing order of the second to last complete lap?BennyBeaver said:What should have happened is a red flag. Stop the race. Let the drivers pit, new tires, and then re-start.
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I'm starting to think this is all just a big endorsement for MotoGP over F1. The rules there are pretty black and white. Very rarely, there's a penalty (ride-through, long lap, or time penalty) handed out that's controversial, but for the most part the rules are hard to fudge. There's no such thing as a safety car that 's out on track with the bikes, for instance, so none of that nonsense. A crash that leaves debris/fluids on the track is an automatic red flag. If 2/3 race distance is complete, that's a wrap. If not, race is restarted, with increasingly fewer laps based off the amount of time elapsed (to fit the race in the TV window).
Passing a safety car!? I couldn't believe that when I saw it. What's the point of a safety car existing if drivers are instructed to pass it? It's like the FIA charges by the word for the F1 rule book. -
F1 has always been this way - or at least it's been this way since I've been watching. Always some controversy going on in regards to the rules and how they're enforced, or selectively enforced. Whether it's some launch control, or a flexible wing, or some race regulations, there's always some debate and controversy going on.
I'm still going to watch it next season.
