The Eroding Power of the MBA
Comments
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I agree ... unlike the JD, or the CPA or other specifically-required "must have for entry" courses of study, the MBA requires a little more thought about whether you really need it. If you want to run a trading desk at Goldman Sachs, or do biz consulting at McKinsey, you're going to need it, and it has to be from the 5 or 6 schools they're currently recruiting at. Otherwise, the door doesn't open.RaceBannon said:
This was a good explanation. Especially the part about people being morons. No way to paper that over but for those who aren't who have goals like you had in mind, go for it and good luckwhlinder said:After graduating UW I immediately took the GMAT to try to get a decent score while I still had test taking skillz with the view that I would eventually want an MBA. The GMAT was only valid for 5 years, so 5 years later I was like ahh shit, guess I better get going with that MBA. I did not want to lose the 2 years of career progression nor could we afford no income for those 2 years, so I went the part-time route. Company paid for 1/2 and I got the rest. And so I went, very very slowly, towards the degree. It took me 5 years to complete.
-Went to GW since it was less than Georgetown, not tied to religion, had a satellite location close to home, more internationally focused and they gave me a small scholarship
-Classmates were fairly diverse. DC, with an international focus. That was good.
-Plenty of people in there right out of college with no work experience looking for more degrees. That was bad.
-I got to do a team research project abroad which was some awesome additional real world experience outside of my domain
-A good chunk of the programs was stuff I "knew" already but was able to formalize and have the credit to prove I knew it
-I gained general business knowledge in many areas, like finance, accounting, HR/legal, corporate strategy, company culture and leadership, which I probably would not have done as directly otherwise
For me it was worth it since I was (and still am) able to go way in depth in my areas of expertise, but the MBA allowed me to apply that in depth knowledge to the important things that other areas of the business have to do to support my primary stuff, and they knew they couldn't bullshit me. The global focus from GW helped as well which I targeted due to working at a global company in a global industry. However, I agree there is an issue with the brand of an MBA since you can get one from so many places and the people who come out of those are in many cases morons. They cheapen the value of "an MBA" compared to people who actually pursued advanced business knowledge through a real program.
Outside of that less than 1/10th of 1% of us, it takes a more thorough analysis of what it is you're trying to achieve. Did Wally Walker need the Stanford MBA to be the Sonics Pres & GM? I'm guessing not. -
Fuck Wally Walker
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And fuck Bob Whitsit, or however you spell his last name. Met him a few times through work and holy fucking shit, what. an. asshole.RaceBannon said:Fuck Wally Walker
Far surpassing @creepycoug -level of arrogance, which is pretty arrogant ... and off-putting. -
I forgot to comment on this gem. The author of the piece is someone who runs a continuing education program she tries to place as an alternative to an MBA. The regurgitated info on why you or your employer should give her money instead of an established school just adds the current news cycle trends. Diversity is the hot topic? MBAs are not diverse. Covid? Covid changed everything including MBAs. Whatever, maybe her program provides value and this does raise an interesting question on whether the degree is worth it.
I think an MBA is still worth it. I never finished mine, it wasn’t my intention to finish when I started - just a placeholder for the time. Little out of pocket expense for me since my employer at the time paid for most of it. Did I learn things? Eh, somewhat. It was pretty good for practicing collaboration, especially doing it remotely and with groups that were diverse in age, experience and background, ethnicity, nationality.
The real usefulness of the degree comes in salary negotiations, promotions, and getting hired. Of course not every company values or cares about an MBA, but having previously worked for a Fortune 500 I can absolutely guarantee you that they care. Hiring for management roles and promotion decisions in these large companies usually come down to a quick decision by some VP who will spend very little time on the matter. Your qualifications may get a grand total of less than a 30 second glance, and if there isn’t some strong separation or recommendation from a trusted source that MBA is getting the job. Over the course of a career I would be absolutely shocked if it doesn’t wind up paying for itself multiple times over. -
Question. Do I need an MBA to run a fireworks stand? I plan to specialize in snakes and sparklers.
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If you’re “america first” then you’ll only sell tannerite
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Snakes, no. Sparklers, yes.Swaye said:Question. Do I need an MBA to run a fireworks stand? I plan to specialize in snakes and sparklers.
More SKUs to manage. Complicated inventory matrix and optimization of product mix.
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MBA has lessened substantially because computer science/math BS people can be taught all of that in a company setting.
My wife graduated from Foster with good grades and then breezed through University of Portland's MBA progrum, and we've decided that if any mba knowledge would be needed it would be me going back to school or learning from her on a per-skills basis for my company. -
Why mba at Portland?haie said:MBA has lessened substantially because computer science/math BS people can be taught all of that in a company setting.
My wife graduated from Foster with good grades and then breezed through University of Portland's MBA progrum, and we've decided that if any mba knowledge would be needed it would be me going back to school or learning from her on a per-skills basis for my company. -
They live down that way. If I were to get an MBA in the greater Portland area, that's the one I'd get (also, it may be the only one available ... does Portland State offer one?)FireCohen said:
Why mba at Portland?haie said:MBA has lessened substantially because computer science/math BS people can be taught all of that in a company setting.
My wife graduated from Foster with good grades and then breezed through University of Portland's MBA progrum, and we've decided that if any mba knowledge would be needed it would be me going back to school or learning from her on a per-skills basis for my company. -
Yes, it was partly because of UP's location just on the south side of the river, and partly because if you have a business degree from UW you can bypass a lot of their MBA requirements and only be in it for a year(ish).creepycoug said:
They live down that way. If I were to get an MBA in the greater Portland area, that's the one I'd get (also, it may be the only one available ... does Portland State offer one?)FireCohen said:
Why mba at Portland?haie said:MBA has lessened substantially because computer science/math BS people can be taught all of that in a company setting.
My wife graduated from Foster with good grades and then breezed through University of Portland's MBA progrum, and we've decided that if any mba knowledge would be needed it would be me going back to school or learning from her on a per-skills basis for my company. -
I was debating getting one a few years back. But then I got into the tech thing and find it pretty pointless. I really have no desire to work in a large company again
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If I were in the place in life considering further business Ed, I'd go hardcore finance & fin tech at the best school I could get into. Because business people are still a punch of prestige-chasing guidos, and because of the contacts. And it's not like you're going to get an inferior education.Pitchfork51 said:I was debating getting one a few years back. But then I got into the tech thing and find it pretty pointless. I really have no desire to work in a large company again
If I were an undergraduate and wanted to head into finance later on, AND if I weren't at an Ivy League or equivalent school, I'd go accounting and minor in data science. Accounting is, to me, the best undergraduate business education ... it is the language of business and the kids who understand are ahead of the kids who think they understand capital markets right out of school. Little secret: you get plenty of finance in the accounting track, and a lot more.
If were an an undergraduate at an Ivy Leage or equivalent school, I'd go old school and get my undergraduate degree in Econ and supplement that with a math and/or data science minor. Then I'd go to work with those raw skills, kick some fucking ass, and then go back and get the pretty MBA from a top school.
Even though Foster has become really strong, I'm not sure I'd bother with it as a mid-career step myself. Unless it were to concentrate on something super specific that I needed/wanted to change career directions. But as an undergrad in Finance at the school they now call Foster, I'm really not going to learn a whole lot in an MBA curriculum, particularly given what I have been doing for a living for the past 20 years.
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Ah my swarthy friend. You forget that I am a true sales guy and a finance/econ major at heart.creepycoug said:
If I were in the place in life considering further business Ed, I'd go hardcore finance & fin tech at the best school I could get into. Because business people are still a punch of prestige-chasing guidos, and because of the contacts. And it's not like you're going to get an inferior education.Pitchfork51 said:I was debating getting one a few years back. But then I got into the tech thing and find it pretty pointless. I really have no desire to work in a large company again
If I were an undergraduate and wanted to head into finance later on, AND if I weren't at an Ivy League or equivalent school, I'd go accounting and minor in data science. Accounting is, to me, the best undergraduate business education ... it is the language of business and the kids who understand are ahead of the kids who think they understand capital markets right out of school. Little secret: you get plenty of finance in the accounting track, and a lot more.
If were an an undergraduate at an Ivy Leage or equivalent school, I'd go old school and get my undergraduate degree in Econ and supplement that with a math and/or data science minor. Then I'd go to work with those raw skills, kick some fucking ass, and then go back and get the pretty MBA from a top school.
Even though Foster has become really strong, I'm not sure I'd bother with it as a mid-career step myself. Unless it were to concentrate on something super specific that I needed/wanted to change career directions. But as an undergrad in Finance at the school they now call Foster, I'm really not going to learn a whole lot in an MBA curriculum, particularly given what I have been doing for a living for the past 20 years.
And therefore I get along quite swimmingly with my bros aka the ceo and cfo.
But they also think I'm magical because I build cool shit that their sales reps like -
creepycoug said:
They live down that way. If I were to get an MBA in the greater Portland area, that's the one I'd get (also, it may be the only one available ... does Portland State offer one?)FireCohen said:
Why mba at Portland?haie said:MBA has lessened substantially because computer science/math BS people can be taught all of that in a company setting.
My wife graduated from Foster with good grades and then breezed through University of Portland's MBA progrum, and we've decided that if any mba knowledge would be needed it would be me going back to school or learning from her on a per-skills basis for my company.
Master in Burning Assets -
That’s where I started mine while I had a year to kill before JD. They offer a few options besides just full time and part time. JD/MBA with Lewis and Clark and an MBA in public health with OHSU. Looking it up now it’s ranked ahead of UPs, but at the time I didn’t even bother researching. I just lived a short walk away so it was convenient and my work would pay most of it. Since then PSU built a really nice looking new business school building that opened a year or two ago, it looks like an IKEA fucked a modern art museum and it’s the offspring.creepycoug said:
does Portland State offer one?)FireCohen said:
Why mba at Portland?haie said:MBA has lessened substantially because computer science/math BS people can be taught all of that in a company setting.
My wife graduated from Foster with good grades and then breezed through University of Portland's MBA progrum, and we've decided that if any mba knowledge would be needed it would be me going back to school or learning from her on a per-skills basis for my company.
In the Portland area, in addition to PSU and UP, there’s also Pacific and George Fox. Marylhurst used to have one but they shut down, leaving nuns with an incredibly valuable piece of land. Oregon has a campus in Old Town and they offer an Executive MBA, you can also do 3L there instead of in Eugene. More recently Oregon State moved into part of the Meier & Frank building and they do some online hybrid thing. Willamette as well, and that might actually be easier to get to than George Fox.
Warner Pacific does as well, but I’m loath to even acknowledge their existence. Years ago a recruiter contacted me on their behalf and inquired if I was interested in an open position they had. They had a really impressive list of desired qualifications that I didn’t meet, so I was curious what they were paying. It was downright fucking offensive. Not just unrealistic, but we’re talking like receptionist level pay for 10 years experience preferred and an MBA or JD. I had to ask twice to make sure she didn’t say ‘one’ in front of the number. I usually don’t feel bad for recruiters, but that poor girl must have had a lot of people scoff at her with that one. -
I agree that accounting is a good move. You have to learn it regardless. Hell I have no know a lot of accounting even for my job because our cfo and I are bros and do all the shit together.creepycoug said:
If I were in the place in life considering further business Ed, I'd go hardcore finance & fin tech at the best school I could get into. Because business people are still a punch of prestige-chasing guidos, and because of the contacts. And it's not like you're going to get an inferior education.Pitchfork51 said:I was debating getting one a few years back. But then I got into the tech thing and find it pretty pointless. I really have no desire to work in a large company again
If I were an undergraduate and wanted to head into finance later on, AND if I weren't at an Ivy League or equivalent school, I'd go accounting and minor in data science. Accounting is, to me, the best undergraduate business education ... it is the language of business and the kids who understand are ahead of the kids who think they understand capital markets right out of school. Little secret: you get plenty of finance in the accounting track, and a lot more.
If were an an undergraduate at an Ivy Leage or equivalent school, I'd go old school and get my undergraduate degree in Econ and supplement that with a math and/or data science minor. Then I'd go to work with those raw skills, kick some fucking ass, and then go back and get the pretty MBA from a top school.
Even though Foster has become really strong, I'm not sure I'd bother with it as a mid-career step myself. Unless it were to concentrate on something super specific that I needed/wanted to change career directions. But as an undergrad in Finance at the school they now call Foster, I'm really not going to learn a whole lot in an MBA curriculum, particularly given what I have been doing for a living for the past 20 years.
If I were doing accounting/finance in a larger company is get the mba no questions asked.
I actually took a few accounting refresher courses the past couple years because I couldn't remember wtf he was talking about.
