MASSIVE Protests Erupt, Conservatives Rise Up Against Lockdown As Democrats Openly Flout The Rules

DerekJohnson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hE7lGxz66M

DerekJohnson

super Inflation seems like a possibility. This whole thing is unsettling if not horrific

BleachedAnusDawg

The stimulus stuff was FS. Should have kept things open as much as possible without negligently endangering people and slogged through the resulting recession. You can't print trillions of funny money and have it not lose value.

UW_Doog_Bot

Lol Tim is way out of his depth when talking econ/finance.

Super inflation won't happen. I would invest in equities and assets though.

He's right about the transfer of wealth however, be a capitalist and win.

Kaepsknee

My worry is that the dollar will lose so much value that the IMF starts talking about using another currency as they almost did in the last crash. I mean that’s the only thing that has kept this ship afloat. Our enemies financing our debt. Been that way for 30 plus years.

WestlinnDuck

Kaepsknee said:

My worry is that the dollar will lose so much value that the IMF starts talking about using another currency as they almost did in the last crash. I mean that’s the only thing that has kept this ship afloat. Our enemies financing our debt. Been that way for 30 plus years.

The people who are subsidizing our debt are people who view US treasury bills as a safe investment. It has nothing to do with our enemies. Would you rather hold Italian debt or US debt? It is that simple. The whole safe investment thing is jeopardized when we keep printing money. The dems want an explosion of debt and printed dollars. Get a little inflation started and then interest rates go up. We currently have $27 trillion in debt at an almost zero percent borrowing cost. 10 year US treasuries are yielding under 1%. For every 1% increase in the US borrowing rate, the interest on our debt will increase by $270 billion. That is unsustainable and at some point US treasuries will not be safe.

creepycoug

BleachedAnusDawg said:

The stimulus stuff was FS. Should have kept things open as much as possible without negligently endangering people and slogged through the resulting recession. You can't print trillions of funny money and have it not lose value.

That is certainly my sense of it. There are economis guysms here, whose opinions I respect, who would argue: "I keep hearing about this super inflation and it never shows up."

TRYK.

creepycoug

WestlinnDuck said:

Kaepsknee said:

My worry is that the dollar will lose so much value that the IMF starts talking about using another currency as they almost did in the last crash. I mean that’s the only thing that has kept this ship afloat. Our enemies financing our debt. Been that way for 30 plus years.

The people who are subsidizing our debt are people who view US treasury bills as a safe investment. It has nothing to do with our enemies. Would you rather hold Italian debt or US debt? It is that simple. The whole safe investment thing is jeopardized when we keep printing money. The dems want an explosion of debt and printed dollars. Get a little inflation started and then interest rates go up. We currently have $27 trillion in debt at an almost zero percent borrowing cost. 10 year US treasuries are yielding under 1%. For every 1% increase in the US borrowing rate, the interest on our debt will increase by $270 billion. That is unsustainable and at some point US treasuries will not be safe.

What you write makes intellectual sense. But then, the response would be found in the same (your) post: "safe" relative to what?

Which country is doing is right/better and therefore stands to jump into our? place as the global reserve currency?

WestlinnDuck

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

Kaepsknee said:

My worry is that the dollar will lose so much value that the IMF starts talking about using another currency as they almost did in the last crash. I mean that’s the only thing that has kept this ship afloat. Our enemies financing our debt. Been that way for 30 plus years.

The people who are subsidizing our debt are people who view US treasury bills as a safe investment. It has nothing to do with our enemies. Would you rather hold Italian debt or US debt? It is that simple. The whole safe investment thing is jeopardized when we keep printing money. The dems want an explosion of debt and printed dollars. Get a little inflation started and then interest rates go up. We currently have $27 trillion in debt at an almost zero percent borrowing cost. 10 year US treasuries are yielding under 1%. For every 1% increase in the US borrowing rate, the interest on our debt will increase by $270 billion. That is unsustainable and at some point US treasuries will not be safe.

What you write makes intellectual sense. But then, the response would be found in the same (your) post: "safe" relative to what?

Which country is doing is right/better and therefore stands to jump into our? place as the global reserve currency?

Gold isn't a country. Neither is Bitcoin. Don't need a government if it can't do its job. The market will figure it out. Then - like Venezuela - the government will ban it. Scratch a leftist, find a fascist. Then the capital goes offshore.

UW_Doog_Bot

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

Kaepsknee said:

My worry is that the dollar will lose so much value that the IMF starts talking about using another currency as they almost did in the last crash. I mean that’s the only thing that has kept this ship afloat. Our enemies financing our debt. Been that way for 30 plus years.

The people who are subsidizing our debt are people who view US treasury bills as a safe investment. It has nothing to do with our enemies. Would you rather hold Italian debt or US debt? It is that simple. The whole safe investment thing is jeopardized when we keep printing money. The dems want an explosion of debt and printed dollars. Get a little inflation started and then interest rates go up. We currently have $27 trillion in debt at an almost zero percent borrowing cost. 10 year US treasuries are yielding under 1%. For every 1% increase in the US borrowing rate, the interest on our debt will increase by $270 billion. That is unsustainable and at some point US treasuries will not be safe.

What you write makes intellectual sense. But then, the response would be found in the same (your) post: "safe" relative to what?

Which country is doing is right/better and therefore stands to jump into our? place as the global reserve currency?

@creepycoug been paying attention.

US debt relative to the economy is still serviceable.

Doesn't mean we should continue to print money to finance Biden Inc. But it IS the reality.

That's without discounting for the fact that we are the undisputed reserve currency.

A bit chicken and egg that we are solvent and honor our debts and that we are viewed as a safe investment. Actually, it was George Washington but I digress.

Lol that ANYTHING is going to unseat the Dollar in the near term unless we do it to ourselves through some fs MMT or a civil war.

creepycoug

WestlinnDuck said:

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

Kaepsknee said:

My worry is that the dollar will lose so much value that the IMF starts talking about using another currency as they almost did in the last crash. I mean that’s the only thing that has kept this ship afloat. Our enemies financing our debt. Been that way for 30 plus years.

The people who are subsidizing our debt are people who view US treasury bills as a safe investment. It has nothing to do with our enemies. Would you rather hold Italian debt or US debt? It is that simple. The whole safe investment thing is jeopardized when we keep printing money. The dems want an explosion of debt and printed dollars. Get a little inflation started and then interest rates go up. We currently have $27 trillion in debt at an almost zero percent borrowing cost. 10 year US treasuries are yielding under 1%. For every 1% increase in the US borrowing rate, the interest on our debt will increase by $270 billion. That is unsustainable and at some point US treasuries will not be safe.

What you write makes intellectual sense. But then, the response would be found in the same (your) post: "safe" relative to what?

Which country is doing is right/better and therefore stands to jump into our? place as the global reserve currency?

Gold isn't a country. Neither is Bitcoin. Don't need a government if it can't do its job. The market will figure it out. Then - like Venezuela - the government will ban it. Scratch a leftist, find a fascist. Then the capital goes offshore.

I'll be candid here: I don't fundamentally understand bitcoin. And gold is as much a psychological play as currency. That is, in and of itself it has no inherent value other than for decorative purposes. It's a hunk of metal. You can't eat it or fuck it, and it doesn't keep you warm and dry. It's only valuable because there's a fixed amount of it, and people used to use it as a baseline for the dollar.

Which takes me to @UW_Doog_Bot 's response. If the underlying driver of the dollar is that it is a proxy for value creation in the US Economy, then we're only going to fuck it up by becoming a second/third world country. When that happens I'm not sure where the first world will be; surely whatever drives that catastropy would likely fuck everybody else up too. What he's saying, I think, is that the fundamentals are still there for us? relative to the rest of the world. On many levels, it is still the place to be, so, loosely at least, its currency is still the one to have. If this is political for you, I also don't recall Trump being a fan of raising rates either.

I get printing money because I tend to think about almost everything in supply / demand terms. But, again, as other economis experts have said on this board, we've? been hearing that forever and we? are Ted.Knight.gif waiting. Interest rates have been ridiculously low forever; so when is a loaf of bread going to cost me $20? Shouldn't it have happened by now? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I acknowledge it as a fair poont response from people smarter than I about these things.

WestlinnDuck

How do go broke? Gradually, then suddenly.

creepycoug

WestlinnDuck said:

How do go broke? Gradually, then suddenly.

That may be. You're saying there's a tipping point, before which you don't perceive what you're doing to yourself, and after which it's too late.

That may be. And, people being people, I can see folks running to gold or other false idols only to realize that when things have gone to hell in a handbasket nothing, apart from hard assets, really have value. It's all in relation to buying power.

NorthwestFresh

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

Kaepsknee said:

My worry is that the dollar will lose so much value that the IMF starts talking about using another currency as they almost did in the last crash. I mean that’s the only thing that has kept this ship afloat. Our enemies financing our debt. Been that way for 30 plus years.

The people who are subsidizing our debt are people who view US treasury bills as a safe investment. It has nothing to do with our enemies. Would you rather hold Italian debt or US debt? It is that simple. The whole safe investment thing is jeopardized when we keep printing money. The dems want an explosion of debt and printed dollars. Get a little inflation started and then interest rates go up. We currently have $27 trillion in debt at an almost zero percent borrowing cost. 10 year US treasuries are yielding under 1%. For every 1% increase in the US borrowing rate, the interest on our debt will increase by $270 billion. That is unsustainable and at some point US treasuries will not be safe.

What you write makes intellectual sense. But then, the response would be found in the same (your) post: "safe" relative to what?

Which country is doing is right/better and therefore stands to jump into our? place as the global reserve currency?

Gold isn't a country. Neither is Bitcoin. Don't need a government if it can't do its job. The market will figure it out. Then - like Venezuela - the government will ban it. Scratch a leftist, find a fascist. Then the capital goes offshore.

I'll be candid here: I don't fundamentally understand bitcoin. And gold is as much a psychological play as currency. That is, in and of itself it has no inherent value other than for decorative purposes. It's a hunk of metal. You can't eat it or fuck it, and it doesn't keep you warm and dry. It's only valuable because there's a fixed amount of it, and people used to use it as a baseline for the dollar.

Which takes me to @UW_Doog_Bot 's response. If the underlying driver of the dollar is that it is a proxy for value creation in the US Economy, then we're only going to fuck it up by becoming a second/third world country. When that happens I'm not sure where the first world will be; surely whatever drives that catastropy would likely fuck everybody else up too. What he's saying, I think, is that the fundamentals are still there for us? relative to the rest of the world. On many levels, it is still the place to be, so, loosely at least, its currency is still the one to have. If this is political for you, I also don't recall Trump being a fan of raising rates either.

I get printing money because I tend to think about almost everything in supply / demand terms. But, again, as other economis experts have said on this board, we've? been hearing that forever and we? are Ted.Knight.gif waiting. Interest rates have been ridiculously low forever; so when is a loaf of bread going to cost me $20? Shouldn't it have happened by now? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I acknowledge it as a fair poont response from people smarter than I about these things.

Currencies aren’t a strongpoont for me either and I’ve always wondered about the gold standard and why it matters. Nothing of value can be built from gold itself, or whatever Bitcoin is as well. I have a gold wedding band and that’s it. Should I own more gold for a rainy day? What trade value does it have? I don’t know. Seems dumb to me but I admit I don’t understand the real value of currency.

Forests and mines are tangible assets that are used in society. Seems much more important an asset to control than some rare metal, but apparently not.

BleachedAnusDawg

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

How do go broke? Gradually, then suddenly.

That may be. You're saying there's a tipping point, before which you don't perceive what you're doing to yourself, and after which it's too late.

That may be. And, people being people, I can see folks running to gold or other false idols only to realize that when things have gone to hell in a handbasket nothing, apart from hard assets, really have value. It's all in relation to buying power.

And guns. Buy your guns today if you haven't already. I'm hearing they make a great bartering tool.

hardhat

BleachedAnusDawg said:

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

How do go broke? Gradually, then suddenly.

That may be. You're saying there's a tipping point, before which you don't perceive what you're doing to yourself, and after which it's too late.

That may be. And, people being people, I can see folks running to gold or other false idols only to realize that when things have gone to hell in a handbasket nothing, apart from hard assets, really have value. It's all in relation to buying power.

And guns. Buy your guns today if you haven't already. I'm hearing they make a great bartering tool.

Can't do much with them without ammo

BleachedAnusDawg

creepycoug said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

The stimulus stuff was FS. Should have kept things open as much as possible without negligently endangering people and slogged through the resulting recession. You can't print trillions of funny money and have it not lose value.

That is certainly my sense of it. There are economis guysms here, whose opinions I respect, who would argue: "I keep hearing about this super inflation and it never shows up."

TRYK.

There are many factors within the system that I have no concept of, for sure. I'm not an econ guy, but if everything is supposed to be based off of supply and demand I can't wrap my head around trillions more dollars being in the economy and that not making the cost of goods go up/value of cash go down. I know I've seen that happening to a certain degree at the grocery store.

BleachedAnusDawg

hardhat said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

How do go broke? Gradually, then suddenly.

That may be. You're saying there's a tipping point, before which you don't perceive what you're doing to yourself, and after which it's too late.

That may be. And, people being people, I can see folks running to gold or other false idols only to realize that when things have gone to hell in a handbasket nothing, apart from hard assets, really have value. It's all in relation to buying power.

And guns. Buy your guns today if you haven't already. I'm hearing they make a great bartering tool.

Can't do much with them without ammo

It costs double what it did a year ago, but you can buy it. No shortage at my house.

creepycoug

BleachedAnusDawg said:

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

How do go broke? Gradually, then suddenly.

That may be. You're saying there's a tipping point, before which you don't perceive what you're doing to yourself, and after which it's too late.

That may be. And, people being people, I can see folks running to gold or other false idols only to realize that when things have gone to hell in a handbasket nothing, apart from hard assets, really have value. It's all in relation to buying power.

And guns. Buy your guns today if you haven't already. I'm hearing they make a great bartering tool.

If the shit every truly hits the fan, you bet they would. And they'd be the last thing I'd let go of.

I've recenty inherited a bunch of guns. Nothing special; mostly hunting rifles and a 12 gauge. I'm thinking about buying a 9mm. When that tim comes, I'll post to Sleddy, Swaye and Yella, and anybody else here, for advice.

BleachedAnusDawg

creepycoug said:

BleachedAnusDawg said:

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

How do go broke? Gradually, then suddenly.

That may be. You're saying there's a tipping point, before which you don't perceive what you're doing to yourself, and after which it's too late.

That may be. And, people being people, I can see folks running to gold or other false idols only to realize that when things have gone to hell in a handbasket nothing, apart from hard assets, really have value. It's all in relation to buying power.

And guns. Buy your guns today if you haven't already. I'm hearing they make a great bartering tool.

If the shit every truly hits the fan, you bet they would. And they'd be the last thing I'd let go of.

I've recenty inherited a bunch of guns. Nothing special; mostly hunting rifles and a 12 gauge. I'm thinking about buying a 9mm. When that tim comes, I'll post to Sleddy, Swaye and Yella, and anybody else here, for advice.

I have a Sig M17 on the way. They're in and out of stock, but I decided to buy now before the Dems steal GA and Biden taxes the hell out of firearms (he won't try to ban pistols, but AR's will be gone).

WestlinnDuck

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

creepycoug said:

WestlinnDuck said:

Kaepsknee said:

My worry is that the dollar will lose so much value that the IMF starts talking about using another currency as they almost did in the last crash. I mean that’s the only thing that has kept this ship afloat. Our enemies financing our debt. Been that way for 30 plus years.

The people who are subsidizing our debt are people who view US treasury bills as a safe investment. It has nothing to do with our enemies. Would you rather hold Italian debt or US debt? It is that simple. The whole safe investment thing is jeopardized when we keep printing money. The dems want an explosion of debt and printed dollars. Get a little inflation started and then interest rates go up. We currently have $27 trillion in debt at an almost zero percent borrowing cost. 10 year US treasuries are yielding under 1%. For every 1% increase in the US borrowing rate, the interest on our debt will increase by $270 billion. That is unsustainable and at some point US treasuries will not be safe.

What you write makes intellectual sense. But then, the response would be found in the same (your) post: "safe" relative to what?

Which country is doing is right/better and therefore stands to jump into our? place as the global reserve currency?

Gold isn't a country. Neither is Bitcoin. Don't need a government if it can't do its job. The market will figure it out. Then - like Venezuela - the government will ban it. Scratch a leftist, find a fascist. Then the capital goes offshore.

I'll be candid here: I don't fundamentally understand bitcoin. And gold is as much a psychological play as currency. That is, in and of itself it has no inherent value other than for decorative purposes. It's a hunk of metal. You can't eat it or fuck it, and it doesn't keep you warm and dry. It's only valuable because there's a fixed amount of it, and people used to use it as a baseline for the dollar.

Which takes me to @UW_Doog_Bot 's response. If the underlying driver of the dollar is that it is a proxy for value creation in the US Economy, then we're only going to fuck it up by becoming a second/third world country. When that happens I'm not sure where the first world will be; surely whatever drives that catastropy would likely fuck everybody else up too. What he's saying, I think, is that the fundamentals are still there for us? relative to the rest of the world. On many levels, it is still the place to be, so, loosely at least, its currency is still the one to have. If this is political for you, I also don't recall Trump being a fan of raising rates either.

I get printing money because I tend to think about almost everything in supply / demand terms. But, again, as other economis experts have said on this board, we've? been hearing that forever and we? are Ted.Knight.gif waiting. Interest rates have been ridiculously low forever; so when is a loaf of bread going to cost me $20? Shouldn't it have happened by now? I honestly don't know the answer to that question, but I acknowledge it as a fair poont response from people smarter than I about these things.

I agree that gold, like Bitcoin is a psychological ploy. But no more than the US dollar. The government promises not to debase the dollar, while its actions certainly aren't supporting that promise. Interest rates remain low and the dollar strong because individuals are still trusting. Gold has been a trusted store of value and relatively transportable for thousands of years. Governments have tried debasing gold coins with base metals for the same period of time. Works for a little while and then the gold coins then aren't trusted. One pound of gold is worth about $26,000 at today's price. You rather have a pound of gold or a wheel barrel of German Weimar marks? If the baby boomers didn't/don't care to pay their debt, why would their children and grandchildren step up to the plate?