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Car Jackings in Minneapolis are up 537%
Comments
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I'm largely a patient person ...TheKobeStopper said:
It rings hollow when we see video after video of cops killing people and the response from the right is “good”. People on this board have repeatedly said that Breonna Taylor deserved to die for fucking a drug dealer.Tequilla said:This is the shit I don’t get ...
I don’t care if you lean left or right ... find me one person that doesn’t advocate that bad cops that commit crimes shouldn’t be prosecuted
So fucking crazy to think that people that advocate supporting police is twisted to saying that they condone bad cops
Everybody is entitled the assumption of innocence until tried in front of a jury if their peers in a fair trial
Why is this shit that hard?
This is what happens to good cops.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/13/876628281/what-happens-when-officers-blow-the-whistle-on-police-misconduct
https://mfranciswrites.medium.com/5-good-cops-that-got-fired-for-being-good-7637c4b61a84
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/16/us/buffalo-police-officer-fired-chokehold-objection-trnd/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/yellowhammernews.com/auburn-police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out-against-ticket-and-arrest-quotas/amp/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/
https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing
https://www.walb.com/story/1859390/police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktvu.com/news/the-dilemma-of-the-good-cop-calling-out-wrongdoing-can-end-an-officers-career.amp
You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system.
Then I read this post ... and it's time to take the gloves off
I will start by saying that as a white male there are things that I can't possibly understand because I haven't walked a mile in the shoes of others that aren't me. I can try to understand, I can listen, I can be sympathetic, I can be any number of things ... but at the end of the day those are shoes that I haven't walked in and I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here and try to lecture anybody on race- or gender-related topics as a result.
So let's be very clear now ... absolutely not one single thing I'm saying going forward is tied to race or one's gender.
I can't speak for others that have had an opinion that said that Breonna Taylor deserved to die for fucking a drug dealer. It's ignorant of anyone that has made that statement or holds that opinion.
You know what else is ignorant? Not understanding your situations and surroundings ... I'll give you a real quick example:
I'd be willing to bet that everybody has heard some form of the narrative of the lesson that "nothing good happens when out after midnight." I've effectively had 2 instances in my life where that narrative rung true.
1) I was driving home from work after midnight on New Year's Eve ... I was driving so carefully that I actually got pulled over by a cop wanting to make sure that I wasn't drunk. Upon realizing I was coming from work he laughed when I told him I was trying to give room for those that were drunk and stay out of the way. Less than 10 minutes later I was almost run off the road by a drunk driver.
2) Years later I was heading to my buddy's house on a Saturday night in Dallas. It wasn't midnight yet but it was probably about 10:30 or so and I was planning on heading to his place, walk to go get some drinks, and crash on his couch for the night. Merge onto the freeway and a motorcycle gets sideswiped right in front of me and forces me to slam on the breaks. 10 seconds later a car full of high school girls not paying attention rear ends me at a full stop and the impact sends me across 3-4 lanes of Saturday night Dallas traffic (not the place you want to be).
I wasn't doing anything wrong. Did I deserve to be in those situations? Absolutely not. Did I learn from those situations about finding ways to give yourself outs, avoiding certain "high risk" intersections, etc. on a go forward basis? Absolutely.
So with respect to Breonna Taylor, did she deserve to get shot? Was she herself doing anything wrong? Absolutely not. Was she keeping good company? Probably not the best. Was him shooting at the cops upon entering a good idea? Not at all. Was she a victim? Absolutely.
But the question to me with Breonna Taylor is who or what is she a victim of? My point to the story above is simply is that we all have a multitude of choices we make in life. Somewhere along the line as a society we have lost accountability for our actions and choices. It's far easier to blame cops for killing an innocent person because it places blame away from one's actions. If her boyfriend doesn't fire his gun, is Breonna Taylor here today? Very very high likelihood. The answer is always more complicated than just point the finger and that's that.
Your overall narrative is that you can't have good cops when there are bad cops. This is the strawman of all strawman arguments ...
What % of police officers would you estimate that are good cops? I'll give you a hint ... it's a fairly high %
You want to talk about how we should be looking at reform within the police to have greater levels of intolerance to behaviors? You've got my ear.
But every police officer accused of behavior that should result in a firing or criminal prosecution is entitled to fair representation (likely starting with their union), a fair trial (if required), and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty ... just like any other person in this country.
You want to talk about how we can create accountability to the above to remove bad cops ... I'm listening. You know who else is listening? Every single good cop out there because the bad cop is making their life and job more difficult by the day.
And you know who else needs to listen? The police unions in making sure that they set a culture of accountability within their membership that doing the right thing is expected. Pressure for this needs to not only start with the police membership but also within governments and the communities with which these police officers serve.
You know what I'm not here for though? The strawman saying that until we have no bad cops we can't have good cops. That's an absolute bullshit statement ...
Corruption exists all around ... anybody that thinks that you're going to eliminate corruption is fooling themselves. If that is your standard you're never going to get anywhere on anything.
There are bad doctors out there ... you know the whole concept of medical malpractice? Should we just eliminate doctors because there are some bad apples out there? Can't have a good doctor if there's a bad doctor - right?
Or how about a government official ... no chance they are corrupt right? So since we have corrupt government officials we should just get rid of government?
Or let's talk about the business person or corporation? From time to time they get a little too full of themselves and they become corrupt. So since we can't guarantee that every business acts ethically and morally, always sells a good working product, etc. we shouldn't have any of that.
Or how about even something as simple as lettuce ... every once in while lettuce gets contaminated and leads to huge issues like E.Coli ... or dairy leading to salmonella. You know what ... if we can't guarantee that those things are 100% good then we can't have those either.
You want me to keep going?
Perfection is a goal that you aspire to knowing that perfection is never achieved. It's the carrot that you keep in front of you to ensure continual improvement and to avoid complacency.
Defunding the police doesn't move the police to a more perfect result. If anything it creates new problems ... things that we may not even be thinking about today. Scrapping the whole thing and starting over won't be perfect either ... you know why? Because NOTHING is perfect. And if that's your standard ... then you can sit off to the side and bitch and complain about everything that is wrong and gradually get ignored because in the end you have nothing to bring to the table that offer solutions or actionable items ... instead all you bring is negative noise that divides and tears down instead of finding ways to heal and bring together.
I think what you'll find is that more people than you think are very willing to have discussions about reforming police and asking the question how can we do better. But when people immediately move to blame all that is wrong on police? Nah ... that's going to get resisted by a lot of people.
Until people are willing to actually sit, talk, listen, and try to find common ground and solutions we're fucked as a society. Regardless of what side of the table you're on, if you have any kind of mindset tied to "if you don't believe the way I do you're just flat out fucking wrong" or using identity related politics as a means to bully/shame people that disagree with you through distorting their views or values or whatever, then at this point you're just pouring gasoline on to the fires that are out there and pushing everybody further and further away from solutions.
Gloves back on ... -
Nobody wants anybody to die ...TheKobeStopper said:
I really enjoy that, during a pandemic, you guys want people to die in the name of capitalism and still have the audacity to talk about socialism killing people.hardhat said:
We understand it quite well. I think you just don’t understand how stupid it is. Left wing ideology has led to death and misery for millions of peoole, including some in my family. You’re a fuxking idiot.TheKobeStopper said:
My two cents, you don’t understand left wing ideology so you project onto us that we must worship the state the way you worship capitalism. But we don’t.GrundleStiltzkin said:What gets queerer by the day to me is the antipathy against police from big state progressives. In day to day life for average people, the police are the ultimate expression of the State.
Any time you want to compare the death counts of capitalism and socialism, I’m down.
This is the exact kind of shit that bothers me more than anything else when people take Opinion A and twist it into the most sinister of implications that is Opinion B ... so fucking stupid.
Global pandemics happen ... they've happened throughout history and they'll happen again going forward.
When one hits where the convergence of facts leads to a pretty bad event then the question is how do you look at all the variables and considerations in play and get the best possible outcome. And what is considered the best possible outcome?
There is this fallacy out there that if we just locked everybody down until there was a vaccine then deaths would be down. I don't particularly buy that because the collateral damage to massive shut downs is flat out massive.
First, the biggest loser through this entire pandemic has been the kids that have had their schooling completely uprooted. The development that they've lost will cause some significant at best short-term implications over the remainder of their development during their educational years. At worst, the emotional scars that they've endured going through the pandemic stay with them going forward in a negative manner.
Second, if you shut down, you effectively soul crush the majority of the small business population resulting in not only owners losing their entire livelihood but also those who are employed by those businesses (which is effectively half of the entire workforce population in private sector jobs) having nowhere to turn.
From a business case, when that happens what you effectively have isn't a downturn or a recession, it's called a depression.
You know what an outcome from a depression is? Massive upswings in suicide rates. Take a look at the chart here (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3093269/) where you see in a depression you're looking at suicide rates that are approximately 2x that of normal conditions. So cool I guess ... we'll trade deaths from the pandemic for increases in suicides ... good call.
And finally, the whole lock everybody down thing doesn't work anyway because eventually people get fed up and revolt against restrictive policies particularly when they have nothing else to lose. If you're any kind of student of history you'd understand that.
But go ahead and talk about decisions made during this pandemic as an indication that this death toll is all in the name of all mighty capitalism. -
You're never going to get 100% consensus so that stuff doesn't bother meRoadDawg55 said:
I agree with you all the way, but there are people that support bad cops. There are also the grey areas like the guy with a knife that got shot seven times and is paralyzed.Tequilla said:This is the shit I don’t get ...
I don’t care if you lean left or right ... find me one person that doesn’t advocate that bad cops that commit crimes shouldn’t be prosecuted
So fucking crazy to think that people that advocate supporting police is twisted to saying that they condone bad cops
Everybody is entitled the assumption of innocence until tried in front of a jury if their peers in a fair trial
Why is this shit that hard?
To some, that was evil by the police that they shot him seven times. To others, they see the guy had a knife, had a warrant, was ignoring orders, and let’s face it, he was a shitty person.
If you give 95% of the people that support good cops and are for holding bad cops accountable and 5% saying cops are right all the time no matter what ... the 5% are going to be marginalized and not hold enough of a consensus to really have a platform.
The gray area stuff like you mentioned is always the challenge. It's also where as a society we've lost so much of the ability to think critically and value accountability.
In the end, it's always easy to play Monday Morning QB and act like you know what you'd do in that situation. -
That’s enough for me.Tequilla said:TheKobeStopper said:
It rings hollow when we see video after video of cops killing people and the response from the right is “good”. People on this board have repeatedly said that Breonna Taylor deserved to die for fucking a drug dealer.Tequilla said:This is the shit I don’t get ...
I don’t care if you lean left or right ... find me one person that doesn’t advocate that bad cops that commit crimes shouldn’t be prosecuted
So fucking crazy to think that people that advocate supporting police is twisted to saying that they condone bad cops
Everybody is entitled the assumption of innocence until tried in front of a jury if their peers in a fair trial
Why is this shit that hard?
This is what happens to good cops.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/13/876628281/what-happens-when-officers-blow-the-whistle-on-police-misconduct
https://mfranciswrites.medium.com/5-good-cops-that-got-fired-for-being-good-7637c4b61a84
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/16/us/buffalo-police-officer-fired-chokehold-objection-trnd/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/yellowhammernews.com/auburn-police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out-against-ticket-and-arrest-quotas/amp/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/
https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing
https://www.walb.com/story/1859390/police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktvu.com/news/the-dilemma-of-the-good-cop-calling-out-wrongdoing-can-end-an-officers-career.amp
You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system.
It's far easier to blame cops for killing an innocent person because it places blame away from one's actions.
And I never said good cops can’t exist if there are bad cops and I never blamed all that is wrong on police. But thank you for the lecture about how I need to listen. -
Who said that she deserved to die you fucking liar?TheKobeStopper said:
It rings hollow when we see video after video of cops killing people and the response from the right is “good”. People on this board have repeatedly said that Breonna Taylor deserved to die for fucking a drug dealer.Tequilla said:This is the shit I don’t get ...
I don’t care if you lean left or right ... find me one person that doesn’t advocate that bad cops that commit crimes shouldn’t be prosecuted
So fucking crazy to think that people that advocate supporting police is twisted to saying that they condone bad cops
Everybody is entitled the assumption of innocence until tried in front of a jury if their peers in a fair trial
Why is this shit that hard?
This is what happens to good cops.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/13/876628281/what-happens-when-officers-blow-the-whistle-on-police-misconduct
https://mfranciswrites.medium.com/5-good-cops-that-got-fired-for-being-good-7637c4b61a84
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/16/us/buffalo-police-officer-fired-chokehold-objection-trnd/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/yellowhammernews.com/auburn-police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out-against-ticket-and-arrest-quotas/amp/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/
https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing
https://www.walb.com/story/1859390/police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktvu.com/news/the-dilemma-of-the-good-cop-calling-out-wrongdoing-can-end-an-officers-career.amp
You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system. -
I'm waiting....Let's Compare.TheKobeStopper said:
I really enjoy that, during a pandemic, you guys want people to die in the name of capitalism and still have the audacity to talk about socialism killing people.hardhat said:
We understand it quite well. I think you just don’t understand how stupid it is. Left wing ideology has led to death and misery for millions of peoole, including some in my family. You’re a fuxking idiot.TheKobeStopper said:
My two cents, you don’t understand left wing ideology so you project onto us that we must worship the state the way you worship capitalism. But we don’t.GrundleStiltzkin said:What gets queerer by the day to me is the antipathy against police from big state progressives. In day to day life for average people, the police are the ultimate expression of the State.
Any time you want to compare the death counts of capitalism and socialism, I’m down. -
You literally wrote this:TheKobeStopper said:
That’s enough for me.Tequilla said:TheKobeStopper said:
It rings hollow when we see video after video of cops killing people and the response from the right is “good”. People on this board have repeatedly said that Breonna Taylor deserved to die for fucking a drug dealer.Tequilla said:This is the shit I don’t get ...
I don’t care if you lean left or right ... find me one person that doesn’t advocate that bad cops that commit crimes shouldn’t be prosecuted
So fucking crazy to think that people that advocate supporting police is twisted to saying that they condone bad cops
Everybody is entitled the assumption of innocence until tried in front of a jury if their peers in a fair trial
Why is this shit that hard?
This is what happens to good cops.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/13/876628281/what-happens-when-officers-blow-the-whistle-on-police-misconduct
https://mfranciswrites.medium.com/5-good-cops-that-got-fired-for-being-good-7637c4b61a84
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/16/us/buffalo-police-officer-fired-chokehold-objection-trnd/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/yellowhammernews.com/auburn-police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out-against-ticket-and-arrest-quotas/amp/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/
https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing
https://www.walb.com/story/1859390/police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktvu.com/news/the-dilemma-of-the-good-cop-calling-out-wrongdoing-can-end-an-officers-career.amp
You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system.
It's far easier to blame cops for killing an innocent person because it places blame away from one's actions.
And I never said good cops can’t exist if there are bad cops and I never blamed all that is wrong on police. But thank you for the lecture about how I need to listen.
"You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system."
Make up your fucking mind, weasel. -
Guy is a complete jackass. According to Kobe the black female police chief in Seattle resigned because she was mad about not being able to murder black people.TurdBomber said:
You literally wrote this:TheKobeStopper said:
That’s enough for me.Tequilla said:TheKobeStopper said:
It rings hollow when we see video after video of cops killing people and the response from the right is “good”. People on this board have repeatedly said that Breonna Taylor deserved to die for fucking a drug dealer.Tequilla said:This is the shit I don’t get ...
I don’t care if you lean left or right ... find me one person that doesn’t advocate that bad cops that commit crimes shouldn’t be prosecuted
So fucking crazy to think that people that advocate supporting police is twisted to saying that they condone bad cops
Everybody is entitled the assumption of innocence until tried in front of a jury if their peers in a fair trial
Why is this shit that hard?
This is what happens to good cops.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/13/876628281/what-happens-when-officers-blow-the-whistle-on-police-misconduct
https://mfranciswrites.medium.com/5-good-cops-that-got-fired-for-being-good-7637c4b61a84
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/16/us/buffalo-police-officer-fired-chokehold-objection-trnd/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/yellowhammernews.com/auburn-police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out-against-ticket-and-arrest-quotas/amp/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/
https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing
https://www.walb.com/story/1859390/police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktvu.com/news/the-dilemma-of-the-good-cop-calling-out-wrongdoing-can-end-an-officers-career.amp
You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system.
It's far easier to blame cops for killing an innocent person because it places blame away from one's actions.
And I never said good cops can’t exist if there are bad cops and I never blamed all that is wrong on police. But thank you for the lecture about how I need to listen.
"You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system."
Make up your fucking mind, weasel. -
Chinned Tequila for the effort and not being too far off.
-
He's one talking point after another. Turn him sideways and you can't see him at all.SFGbob said:
Guy is a complete jackass. According to Kobe the black female police chief in Seattle resigned because she was mad about not being able to murder black people.TurdBomber said:
You literally wrote this:TheKobeStopper said:
That’s enough for me.Tequilla said:TheKobeStopper said:
It rings hollow when we see video after video of cops killing people and the response from the right is “good”. People on this board have repeatedly said that Breonna Taylor deserved to die for fucking a drug dealer.Tequilla said:This is the shit I don’t get ...
I don’t care if you lean left or right ... find me one person that doesn’t advocate that bad cops that commit crimes shouldn’t be prosecuted
So fucking crazy to think that people that advocate supporting police is twisted to saying that they condone bad cops
Everybody is entitled the assumption of innocence until tried in front of a jury if their peers in a fair trial
Why is this shit that hard?
This is what happens to good cops.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/13/876628281/what-happens-when-officers-blow-the-whistle-on-police-misconduct
https://mfranciswrites.medium.com/5-good-cops-that-got-fired-for-being-good-7637c4b61a84
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/16/us/buffalo-police-officer-fired-chokehold-objection-trnd/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/yellowhammernews.com/auburn-police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out-against-ticket-and-arrest-quotas/amp/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/what-police-departments-do-whistle-blowers/613687/
https://www.aclu.org/video/meet-officer-mader-fired-trying-do-right-thing
https://www.walb.com/story/1859390/police-officer-fired-for-speaking-out/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ktvu.com/news/the-dilemma-of-the-good-cop-calling-out-wrongdoing-can-end-an-officers-career.amp
You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system.
It's far easier to blame cops for killing an innocent person because it places blame away from one's actions.
And I never said good cops can’t exist if there are bad cops and I never blamed all that is wrong on police. But thank you for the lecture about how I need to listen.
"You cannot be a good cop in a corrupt system. Supporting the police is an endorsement of the system."
Make up your fucking mind, weasel.
