Fire Pete Carroll
But the game has passed him by.
His refusal to play in the first half is predictable, boring, exhausting and killing this team.
Every year you keep Pete is a year you are wasting the prime of an inner circle HOF QB.
This is all you need to know.
@FirePete
Comments
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dnc said:
Amazing coach. Inspiring man. Very grateful the Hawks hired him.
But the game has passed him by.
His refusal to play in the first half is predictable, boring, exhausting and killing this team.
Every year you keep Pete is a year you are wasting the prime of an inner circle HOF QB.
This is all you need to know.
@FirePete -
dnc said:dnc said:
Amazing coach. Inspiring man. Very grateful the Hawks hired him.
But the game has passed him by.
His refusal to play in the first half is predictable, boring, exhausting and killing this team.
Every year you keep Pete is a year you are wasting the prime of an inner circle HOF QB.
This is all you need to know.
@FirePete -
Convenient that you left out 2013 and 2014dnc said:dnc said:Amazing coach. Inspiring man. Very grateful the Hawks hired him.
But the game has passed him by.
His refusal to play in the first half is predictable, boring, exhausting and killing this team.
Every year you keep Pete is a year you are wasting the prime of an inner circle HOF QB.
This is all you need to know.
@FirePete -
All those games were on the road in the playoffs. They aren’t only from not letting Russ rip it.dnc said:dnc said:Amazing coach. Inspiring man. Very grateful the Hawks hired him.
But the game has passed him by.
His refusal to play in the first half is predictable, boring, exhausting and killing this team.
Every year you keep Pete is a year you are wasting the prime of an inner circle HOF QB.
This is all you need to know.
@FirePete -
Yeah the whole narrative that it’s just Carrols fault is laughable. Russ has to play better in 1Hs regardless of what plays are called. It not like they are only runs being called.
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That's a silly cherry-picked stat. Why not use all road playoff games? There's absolutely an issue with Carroll's first half performances in road playoff games, so no need to twist it to make it look worse than it already is.
I also wouldn't say the game has passed him by. His ability to keep this team afloat after the mass attrition of 2017-2018 is pretty fucking impressive, and frankly I put more blame on Schneider's shoulders for consistent draft whiffs on the defense and offensive line (yes obviously Carroll played his own role in evaluating these guys) than Pete making in-game blunders. -
It's Pete's team, he's the boss, he hired Schneider, he sets the tone for what they want.GreenRiverGatorz said:That's a silly cherry-picked stat. Why not use all road playoff games? There's absolutely an issue with Carroll's first half performances in road playoff games, so no need to twist it to make it look worse than it already is.
I also wouldn't say the game has passed him by. His ability to keep this team afloat after the mass attrition of 2017-2018 is pretty fucking impressive, and frankly I put more blame on Schneider's shoulders for consistent draft whiffs on the defense and offensive line (yes obviously Carroll played his own role in evaluating these guys) than Pete making in-game blunders.
The OL issues are all on Pete's philosophy. He wants to run the ball so they select OL who can run block and not pass block.
Pete's the defensive coach but the defense has been very bad for a couple of years now.
Maybe the game hasn't passed him by but he has been unwilling to adapt to his personnel and still coaches like he has an elite defense when they aren't anything close to elite. He still coaches like he has a mediocre QB when he has a great one.
If he would build the team around it's greatest strength it would have a real shot.
He won't though. -
It's not my Tweet.DerekJohnson said:
Convenient that you left out 2013 and 2014dnc said:dnc said:Amazing coach. Inspiring man. Very grateful the Hawks hired him.
But the game has passed him by.
His refusal to play in the first half is predictable, boring, exhausting and killing this team.
Every year you keep Pete is a year you are wasting the prime of an inner circle HOF QB.
This is all you need to know.
@FirePete
The point is that they have the same gameplan in every playoff game whether on the road or at home and it flat out isn't working on the road.
The whole world knows exactly what Seattle will do in the first half. They make adjustments at halftime but the whole is too deep. -
Russ was fine in the first half. Pete doesn't want him to run in the first half which maybe makes sense in the regular season if you're trying to protect him but is incredibly stupid in a loser out game. Why would you that take away one of his best weapons?Bob_C said:Yeah the whole narrative that it’s just Carrols fault is laughable. Russ has to play better in 1Hs regardless of what plays are called. It not like they are only runs being called.
He overthrew DK on the first drive, and had some terrible clock management on the last drive of the first half (which how much of that is him and how much is Pete is always debatable). He wasn't perfect but he would have been a lot better than 3 points if he was allowed to be.
I expected Russ to be a big problem in this game due to the cold. He wasn't. He played well enough to win.
Pete didn't coach well enough to win.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat. -
I'm not sure where you got the idea that Pete is Schneider's boss. AFAIK he doesn't have the ability to replace him (not that I'm advocating for that). I could absolutely be wrong though.dnc said:
It's Pete's team, he's the boss, he hired Schneider, he sets the tone for what they want.GreenRiverGatorz said:That's a silly cherry-picked stat. Why not use all road playoff games? There's absolutely an issue with Carroll's first half performances in road playoff games, so no need to twist it to make it look worse than it already is.
I also wouldn't say the game has passed him by. His ability to keep this team afloat after the mass attrition of 2017-2018 is pretty fucking impressive, and frankly I put more blame on Schneider's shoulders for consistent draft whiffs on the defense and offensive line (yes obviously Carroll played his own role in evaluating these guys) than Pete making in-game blunders.
The OL issues are all on Pete's philosophy. He wants to run the ball so they select OL who can run block and not pass block.
Pete's the defensive coach but the defense has been very bad for a couple of years now.
Maybe the game hasn't passed him by but he has been unwilling to adapt to his personnel and still coaches like he has an elite defense when they aren't anything close to elite. He still coaches like he has a mediocre QB when he has a great one.
If he would build the team around it's greatest strength it would have a real shot.
He won't though.
And I'm not opposed to dialing back Pete's personnel responsibilities. I also don't disagree with your criticism, I think that's what's preventing this team from being elite. But I'm not jumping anywhere near the #firepete bandwagon. -
Pete selected Schneider. I agree the flow chart is a bit muddy, especially since Paul Allen died. I'm not sure Pete could fire Schneider but I do know Pete is ultimately in charge. Schneider for sure couldn't fire Pete.GreenRiverGatorz said:
I'm not sure where you got the idea that Pete is Schneider's boss. AFAIK he doesn't have the ability to replace him (not that I'm advocating for that). I could absolutely be wrong though.dnc said:
It's Pete's team, he's the boss, he hired Schneider, he sets the tone for what they want.GreenRiverGatorz said:That's a silly cherry-picked stat. Why not use all road playoff games? There's absolutely an issue with Carroll's first half performances in road playoff games, so no need to twist it to make it look worse than it already is.
I also wouldn't say the game has passed him by. His ability to keep this team afloat after the mass attrition of 2017-2018 is pretty fucking impressive, and frankly I put more blame on Schneider's shoulders for consistent draft whiffs on the defense and offensive line (yes obviously Carroll played his own role in evaluating these guys) than Pete making in-game blunders.
The OL issues are all on Pete's philosophy. He wants to run the ball so they select OL who can run block and not pass block.
Pete's the defensive coach but the defense has been very bad for a couple of years now.
Maybe the game hasn't passed him by but he has been unwilling to adapt to his personnel and still coaches like he has an elite defense when they aren't anything close to elite. He still coaches like he has a mediocre QB when he has a great one.
If he would build the team around it's greatest strength it would have a real shot.
He won't though.
And I'm not opposed to dialing back Pete's personnel responsibilities. I also don't disagree with your criticism, I think that's what's preventing this team from being elite. But I'm not jumping anywhere near the #firepete bandwagon.
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yryk, pete wont change shit, he's a crotchety old man. why should he though? he's going to coach seattle for as long as he wants.dnc said:
It's Pete's team, he's the boss, he hired Schneider, he sets the tone for what they want.GreenRiverGatorz said:That's a silly cherry-picked stat. Why not use all road playoff games? There's absolutely an issue with Carroll's first half performances in road playoff games, so no need to twist it to make it look worse than it already is.
I also wouldn't say the game has passed him by. His ability to keep this team afloat after the mass attrition of 2017-2018 is pretty fucking impressive, and frankly I put more blame on Schneider's shoulders for consistent draft whiffs on the defense and offensive line (yes obviously Carroll played his own role in evaluating these guys) than Pete making in-game blunders.
The OL issues are all on Pete's philosophy. He wants to run the ball so they select OL who can run block and not pass block.
Pete's the defensive coach but the defense has been very bad for a couple of years now.
Maybe the game hasn't passed him by but he has been unwilling to adapt to his personnel and still coaches like he has an elite defense when they aren't anything close to elite. He still coaches like he has a mediocre QB when he has a great one.
If he would build the team around it's greatest strength it would have a real shot.
He won't though. -
Is there an example of a coach that has won a Super Bowl and then won his second 8-9 years later? I can’t think of one. A few like Parcells and Gibbs got it 3-4 years later.
You win multiple in a short time or you are one and done according to history. Wilson is too good to let this continue. -
Pats won three of four from 01 to 04Bob_C said:Is there an example of a coach that has won a Super Bowl and then won his second 8-9 years later? I can’t think of one. A few like Parcells and Gibbs got it 3-4 years later.
You win multiple in a short time or you are one and done according to history. Wilson is too good to let this continue.
Won their next in 14 -
But they won multiple early. Did anyone win their second with that kind of gap?
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Can’t think of anyone. This is a really good point.Bob_C said:But they won multiple early. Did anyone win their second with that kind of gap?
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Pete has final say on every roster move. Schneider just does the leg work.GreenRiverGatorz said:
I'm not sure where you got the idea that Pete is Schneider's boss. AFAIK he doesn't have the ability to replace him (not that I'm advocating for that). I could absolutely be wrong though.dnc said:
It's Pete's team, he's the boss, he hired Schneider, he sets the tone for what they want.GreenRiverGatorz said:That's a silly cherry-picked stat. Why not use all road playoff games? There's absolutely an issue with Carroll's first half performances in road playoff games, so no need to twist it to make it look worse than it already is.
I also wouldn't say the game has passed him by. His ability to keep this team afloat after the mass attrition of 2017-2018 is pretty fucking impressive, and frankly I put more blame on Schneider's shoulders for consistent draft whiffs on the defense and offensive line (yes obviously Carroll played his own role in evaluating these guys) than Pete making in-game blunders.
The OL issues are all on Pete's philosophy. He wants to run the ball so they select OL who can run block and not pass block.
Pete's the defensive coach but the defense has been very bad for a couple of years now.
Maybe the game hasn't passed him by but he has been unwilling to adapt to his personnel and still coaches like he has an elite defense when they aren't anything close to elite. He still coaches like he has a mediocre QB when he has a great one.
If he would build the team around it's greatest strength it would have a real shot.
He won't though.
And I'm not opposed to dialing back Pete's personnel responsibilities. I also don't disagree with your criticism, I think that's what's preventing this team from being elite. But I'm not jumping anywhere near the #firepete bandwagon. -
The list of coaches who have won multiple Super Bowls is incredibly short. 13 to be exact. That's obviously somewhat your point, but trying to look for precedent in anything is a bit of a futile exercise. I wouldn't put money on any of Sean Payton, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, or shit, even Bill Belichick, winning another Super Bowl. Carroll is in that same boat. It's quite honestly the hardest thing to do in sports. Yet I wouldn't advocate replacing any of those guys.Bob_C said:Is there an example of a coach that has won a Super Bowl and then won his second 8-9 years later? I can’t think of one. A few like Parcells and Gibbs got it 3-4 years later.
You win multiple in a short time or you are one and done according to history. Wilson is too good to let this continue. -
I'd replace Tomlin and Carroll and in a vacuum Payton but I'm not sure Brees would stick around for a new staff. If Brees wasn't on board I wouldn't fire Payton.GreenRiverGatorz said:
The list of coaches who have won multiple Super Bowls is incredibly short. 13 to be exact. That's obviously somewhat your point, but trying to look for precedent in anything is a bit of a futile exercise. I wouldn't put money on any of Sean Payton, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, or shit, even Bill Belichick, winning another Super Bowl. Carroll is in that same boat. It's quite honestly the hardest thing to do in sports. Yet I wouldn't advocate replacing any of those guys.Bob_C said:Is there an example of a coach that has won a Super Bowl and then won his second 8-9 years later? I can’t think of one. A few like Parcells and Gibbs got it 3-4 years later.
You win multiple in a short time or you are one and done according to history. Wilson is too good to let this continue.
Good is often the enemy of great. Tomlin and Carroll have proven at this point they aren't great coaches anymore. -
I don’t know if I would fire Pete, but Russ is so good any coach, even a bad one could go 10-6 or better with him.
There are certain things with his scheme that have proven to be ineffective. We obviously need great DB’s. Even in the LOB days, when we had one guy that wasn’t good, teams would pick on them all day. Simon in the SuperBowl against the Pats was the biggest culprit.
Flowers would be a good 5th or 6th DB. He’s no starting CB for a contender.
Since we know we didn’t have the defense, let Russ go. The ground and pound bullshit only works in the NFL if you have a great defense. Ours was below average. -
But besides Belichick, does your definition of great even exist in the head coaching ranks? We thought McVay was on his way to blazing a new trail, but it turns out that he can fizzle out with the rest of them. Maybe Shanahan does it this year, but until he actually weathers a full cycle of roster turnover and proves he can sustain success, I don't think he's going to deserve the designation of "great" any time soon.dnc said:
I'd replace Tomlin and Carroll and in a vacuum Payton but I'm not sure Brees would stick around for a new staff. If Brees wasn't on board I wouldn't fire Payton.GreenRiverGatorz said:
The list of coaches who have won multiple Super Bowls is incredibly short. 13 to be exact. That's obviously somewhat your point, but trying to look for precedent in anything is a bit of a futile exercise. I wouldn't put money on any of Sean Payton, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, or shit, even Bill Belichick, winning another Super Bowl. Carroll is in that same boat. It's quite honestly the hardest thing to do in sports. Yet I wouldn't advocate replacing any of those guys.Bob_C said:Is there an example of a coach that has won a Super Bowl and then won his second 8-9 years later? I can’t think of one. A few like Parcells and Gibbs got it 3-4 years later.
You win multiple in a short time or you are one and done according to history. Wilson is too good to let this continue.
Good is often the enemy of great. Tomlin and Carroll have proven at this point they aren't great coaches anymore.
My point is that the NFL is so damn cyclical and the emphasis of parity in the league makes it extremely hard to sustain any kind of success. We could fire Pete and hire the next young guru who can take us to the Super Bowl, only for him to become obsolete in three years. Pete is one of the few coaches who has shown an ability to sustain success throughout an entire cycle of young stars turning into expensive veterans and then pricing them off the team. That's fucking hard to do, and while his blunders - questionable drafting, an awful S&C hire, and in-game deficiencies; have prevented this team from becoming elite again, he's also the one who got us back to playoff consistency in the first place. -
Interesting, but really narrow, stat. I think the longest gap between first and second SB win is Landry at 6 years (had a SB loss 4 years after first win) and then Gibbs at 5 years (lost year after winning first).dnc said:
Can’t think of anyone. This is a really good point.Bob_C said:But they won multiple early. Did anyone win their second with that kind of gap?
As mentioned Belichick went a long time between 4 and 5.
Shula won back to back and didn't ever win again, but got back 9 and 11 years later.
But if that's the metric, then Sean Payton, John Harbaugh and Jon Gruden should all be door ass out before Carroll, since they are on longer gaps. Payton especially since he's also had the same QB the whole time. -
They didn't play a road playoff game in 2013 or 2014.DerekJohnson said:
Convenient that you left out 2013 and 2014dnc said:dnc said:Amazing coach. Inspiring man. Very grateful the Hawks hired him.
But the game has passed him by.
His refusal to play in the first half is predictable, boring, exhausting and killing this team.
Every year you keep Pete is a year you are wasting the prime of an inner circle HOF QB.
This is all you need to know.
@FirePete
