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Everything the government has been heavily involved in cost more

MikeDamoneMikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
Than things mostly left to the free market.

HondoBros will disagree.

Comments

  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,941
    Yeah but when they completely take over healthcare, this time it will be different, this time it will save us money.
  • MikeDamoneMikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    SFGbob said:

    Yeah but when they completely take over healthcare, this time it will be different, this time it will save us money.

    More than $2000 per year that everyone saved last time? That would be cool. Let’s do it!
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,941

    SFGbob said:

    Yeah but when they completely take over healthcare, this time it will be different, this time it will save us money.

    More than $2000 per year that everyone saved last time? That would be cool. Let’s do it!
    Yeah, but he only said that when he was campaigning and not when he was actually trying to enact the law, so it wasn't a lie.
  • HHuskyHHusky Member Posts: 20,353
    edited October 2019

    Than things mostly left to the free market.

    HondoBros will disagree.

    Many people are saying cars drive on roads. I guess no technological innovations came out of public research institutions.
  • TheKobeStopperTheKobeStopper Member Posts: 5,959
    I see correlation but no causation.
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 104,441 Founders Club

    I see correlation but no causation.

    I hope my chin is bad for your brand
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 34,934 Founders Club
    Duh. Anytime the government gives consumers free or low cost money it is inherently inflationary. When consumers don't have money to buy shit it stays cheap.
  • MikeDamoneMikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781

    Duh. Anytime the government gives consumers free or low cost money it is inherently inflationary. When consumers don't have money to buy shit it stays cheap.

    And competition and shit.
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457

    Duh. Anytime the government gives consumers free or low cost money it is inherently inflationary. When consumers don't have money to buy shit it stays cheap.

    I feel technology, cheap shipping, and internet shopping has changed the equation.
  • WestlinnDuckWestlinnDuck Member Posts: 15,001 Standard Supporter
    You feel wrong. One of the things that still amazes me about leftards who aren’t just in it for the free sh*t or for the power but honestly believe that a government of elites ruling over the sheeple will provide superior results because – well they are elite. Hence the appeal of barry to certain people – so called elite credentials Harvard Law, first black editor of the law review etc. Just the smartest president to be evah. Barry had David Brooks creaming in his jeans. Barry then proceeded to be functionally wrong on the cost of health care and US oil and gas production because he doesn’t do math, science or Econ 101.
    Thus you would think that certain core functions of a government would at least be to get the trains to run on time. But the core functions of government have been corrupted and all with the at best tacit approval of our elites or in most cases because of the intentional actions of our elites.
    Public education doesn’t exist to educate our children but to indoctrinate them so that the blood suckers off our public education system can continue to bloodsuck; namely the teachers unions, the administrators and dem politicians.
    Wanted public infrastructure like roads are ignored in order to fund crony capitalist projects like light rail to nowhere and bike lanes. Oregon has spent hundreds of millions to study a new I-5 bridge and still no approved bridge design. Oregon hasn’t built a new auto bridge over the Willamette or Columbia since the I-205 bridge in 1972. We did build one for bikes and Tri-Met.
    In Portland, the new water treatment facility was to cost $500 million, now $850 million with a hedge that it might cost $1.3 billion.
    Public safety is thrown away and vagrancy, drug use and property crime are ignored.
    Borders are open and the US has become a world welfare magnet.
    The government elite spends hundreds of millions on websites that don’t work.
    But these same people say vote for us, we will save the planet from chicom CO2 production by forcing US citizens to freeze in the dark because they are such super geniuses.
  • WestlinnDuckWestlinnDuck Member Posts: 15,001 Standard Supporter
    And when they run out of sand it will be Bush's and Trump's fault. NY banned new gas pipelines and now blames natural gas shortages on the gas company. Because they care.
  • WestlinnDuckWestlinnDuck Member Posts: 15,001 Standard Supporter
    Go figure.
    https://reason.com/2019/10/08/audit-finds-cost-of-building-supportive-housing-in-l-a-exceeds-median-price-of-a-market-rate-condo/
    Audit Finds Cost of Building Supportive Housing in L.A. Exceeds Median Price of a Market-Rate Condo
    Los Angeles is spending $600,000 per unit on building affordable and supportive housing for homeless residents.
    High fees, excessive regulation, and NIMBY ("not in my backyard") opposition to new housing have contributed to Los Angeles' worsening homelessness crisis. Those same things are now frustrating the city's efforts to construct thousands of units of affordable and supportive housing, where social services can be offered on-site.
    On Tuesday, Los Angeles Controller Ron Galperin released a damning audit of the performance of Prop. HHH, a $1.2 billion bond issue passed overwhelmingly in 2016 to help finance the construction of 10,000 units of housing for homeless and low-income residents.
    "More than two years after the first bond issuance and nearly three years since voters approved HHH, not one bond-funded unit has opened," Galperin announced. "It is clear that the City's HHH program is not keeping pace with the growing demand for supportive housing and shelter."
    117 Prop HHH-funded units are scheduled to open in 2019. Los Angeles' homeless population jumped 16 percent this year to 36,000.
    Spiking development costs also mean that Prop HHH will end up subsidizing only about 7,700 units, not the 10,000 units promised to voters.
    A 2016 estimate of construction costs put the price of adding new units at between $350,000 to $414,000. But the median per-unit cost at Prop. HHH-funded projects now stands at $531,373. Over 1,000 units are expected to cost over $600,000, and one project has units going for over $700,000.
    "The cost of building many of these units exceeds the median sale price of a market-rate condominium in the City of Los Angeles and a single-family home in Los Angeles County," noted the controller's audit.
    Reason has covered the high cost of building affordable housing in the Los Angeles area before, finding that sky-high land costs, union wage requirements, high development fees, and expensive design requirements have helped to push up the costs of these projects.
    The controller's audit pinpoints many of these factors as helping to raise the costs of Prop HHH, especially the union wage mandates, city fees, and accessibility requirements for units serving disabled tenants.
    Also driving up costs are city regulations that require developers receiving Prop HHH funding to have experience building supportive housing, and the need of these developers to piece together financing from multiple local, state, and federal sources.
    Compounding all of these factors is Los Angeles' byzantine permitting process, which can delay projects for years at a time, while also giving neighborhood opponents ample opportunity to slow things up even more.
    The city did try to address this problem by passing a 2018 ordinance streamlining approvals for Prop. HHH projects and lifting some zoning regulations, including parking requirements and density limits. Community groups, however, ended up suing the city over that ordinance, claiming it violated the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA).
    CEQA lawsuits are a favorite tool of NIMBYs to either stop unwanted projects or extract concessions from developers.
    In response, the California legislature passed a law this year exempting Prop HHH projects from CEQA. That should speed up project delivery. However, Tuesday's audit chided the city for streamlining permitting only after committing funding to projects.
    The controller's audit also included a number of recommendations for bringing costs down, including finding more ways of streamlining approvals, embracing cost-saving construction methods, and shifting funding from the most expensive projects to temporary shelters.
    Some of these recommendations could also be applied to housing development in general. Los Angeles' affordability problems are themselves a product of zoning laws that limit where housing can be built, lengthy permitting processes that drag out the approval of what housing is allowed, and state environmental laws that allow project opponents to cynically delay development.
    Ensuring that Prop HHH projects don't run into these roadblocks, as the controller's audit has recommended, is a good idea. Removing these obstacles for market-rate housing as well might mean fewer people would need to rely on the government to house them in the first place.
  • MikeDamoneMikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    edited October 2019
    I will give the government some credit. Winning WWII was huge. The US Navy controlling the oceans to allow secure passage of merchant ships has helped enable free trade and lifted billions of people out of grinding poverty. Despite leftists and neo conservatives yelling about manufacturing in other counties, it has made the world more wealthy and free to an extent more than anyone could imagine. Sad that leftists and neo cons want to shut it down.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,941
    Gosh I wonder what happens to the housing when you place people who have already displayed an inability to function in society into that housing? Scotty believes they are mostly just poor families who are down on their luck. But experience tells me that the same issues you have with public housing today will only be increased when you start putting mentally ill and the drug addicted into that housing.
  • WestlinnDuckWestlinnDuck Member Posts: 15,001 Standard Supporter
    Government was much smaller in the 1940s and there were no government unions. We won World War II faster than we convicted self-confessed murderer Major Hassan who was captured in the act.
  • MikeDamoneMikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    edited October 2019

    Government was much smaller in the 1940s and there were no government unions. We won World War II faster than we convicted self-confessed murderer Major Hassan who was captured in the act.

    Back then we could build major highways and bridges in 1/10 the time and cost as now. They just got shit done.
  • HHuskyHHusky Member Posts: 20,353

    HHusky said:

    Than things mostly left to the free market.

    HondoBros will disagree.

    Many people are saying cars drive on roads. I guess no technological innovations came out of public research institutions.


    Paved roads are a pretty fucking expensive subsidy to the automobile industry. Streetcars had to obtain their own right of ways.
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 104,441 Founders Club
    HHusky said:

    HHusky said:

    Than things mostly left to the free market.

    HondoBros will disagree.

    Many people are saying cars drive on roads. I guess no technological innovations came out of public research institutions.


    Paved roads are a pretty fucking expensive subsidy to the automobile industry. Streetcars had to obtain their own right of ways.
    Yeah just because the entire population uses roads man doesn't mean it isn't a subsidy to the auto industry

    They bought up the patents on an engine that runs on water too

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