The Trouble With "Renewables"

UW_Doog_Bot

Good video, if you don't watch it then you aren't serious about climate change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5cm7HOAqZY

allpurpleallgold

The climate has always changed.

PurpleThrobber

Edibles > Renewables

Kaepsknee

I actually wanted to watch it.








But I'm not serious about climate change, so I can't.

UW_Doog_Bot

allpurpleallgold said:

The climate has always changed.

So you didn't watch and you don't care. Got it.

BearsWiin

I've kayaked on Elkhorn Slough right next to that Moss Landing power plant

Sledog

Holy shit you mean it gets dark and the wind don't blow?

WestlinnDuck

That late breaking story is unavailable for the true green gaia religionists.

YellowSnow

Maff and physics are hard for greens.

GreenRiverGatorz

Good post @UW_Doog_Bot. California is a good microcosm of the larger renewable energy issue - the investment costs and land intensiveness of solar and wind power mean they are still not feasible to replace natural gas and nuclear energy. Their variability due to seasonality and weather only adds to the cost when battery storage becomes another necessity. As always, incremental progress as we continue to find more cost effective ways to replace natural gas and nuclear energy is the only realistic scenario.

Note that none of this touches upon the other very pressing energy issue of the world - transportation. Electric cars are nice, but no renewables are even close to properly substituting the fossil fuel consumption that comes from shipping and air travel. We have a long ways to go.

Sledog

It's all conservatives fault for wanting electricity when it gets dark.

UW_Doog_Bot

YellowSnow said:

Maff and physics are hard for greens.

This is my major problem with most "environmentalists". There's very little past the emotional pandering rhetoric. Once you actually want to have a discussion around any of the policy details or how to actually execute a "greener" energy policy they've got very little to bring to the table. It's all just pie in the sky demands with no path to reality. The "Green New Deal" is laughably the best thing the majority has to advocate for.

RaceBannon

Carbon has elevated the life of man to levels never dreamed of

We live better than kings

I applaud the OG environmental movement for prodding private energy to innovate cleaner methods. Our water and air really did suck and was getting worse. It cost a lot of money to clean up what we have. It didn't just happen

As is often the case to declare victory or progress cuts off the money train so we have gotten to some pretty extreme places of fantasy when it comes to energy

Products have to scale for mass use. They can't cause more problems than they solve. So far renewables fail both tests. There is no harm in continuing to explore them but fossil fuels are not our enemy.

The corruption of science is a big deal.

Bendintheriver

UW_Doog_Bot said:

YellowSnow said:

Maff and physics are hard for greens.

This is my major problem with most "environmentalists". There's very little past the emotional pandering rhetoric. Once you actually want to have a discussion around any of the policy details or how to actually execute a "greener" energy policy they've got very little to bring to the table. It's all just pie in the sky demands with no path to reality. The "Green New Deal" is laughably the best thing the majority has to advocate for.

I agree with you. Al Gore was a classic name caller and accuser of those who didn't play along with his dire predictions and demands for change. There was no constructive discussion, it was a belief we were all going to die in a decade or you were the enemy. Gore was a huge proponent of Ethanol. He put it right up there with wind and solar as a cure for the supposedly sick environment. Hundreds of billions of dollars wasted and a increase in the carbon footprint associated with production and transportation increases and here we are.

I am all for alternative energy sources and making this place better (have you been to Los Angeles lately? The air pollution has come back with a vengeance) but threatening to put people in jail if they disagree with your dire predictions and methods for decreasing our footprint is ridiculous.

CuntWaffle

The New Green Deal solves all of this guys. It's even endorsed by Hondo.

RaceBannon

CuntWaffle said:

The New Green Deal solves all of this guys. It's even endorsed by Hondo.

Kind of. You know as a starting point for a SERIOUS discussion. Just a guideline really

GrundleStiltzkin

The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.

BleachedAnusDawg

GrundleStiltzkin said:

The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.

Salmon killer!

UW_Doog_Bot

GrundleStiltzkin said:

The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.

Sure, but it has an upper limit to how much we can install even IF you ignore all of the other environmental factors. Not every state is as abundant with rivers as Washington is.

Kaepsknee

UW_Doog_Bot said:

GrundleStiltzkin said:

The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.

Sure, but it has an upper limit to how much we can install even IF you ignore all of the other environmental factors. Not every state is as abundant with rivers as Washington is.

Every energy type has it's drawbacks and waste. With electric cars you have the batteries to dispose of. With Wind and Solar you have the huge land tracts that are needed and huge downtime. With LNG you have the delivery issues.

And then you have the grand daddy of them all with Nuclear waste and potential meltdown due to earthquake or human error.

There's no clean energy. It's simply the lesser of the evils.

Sledog

salemcoog said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:

GrundleStiltzkin said:

The most efficient solar power generation remains hydro.

Sure, but it has an upper limit to how much we can install even IF you ignore all of the other environmental factors. Not every state is as abundant with rivers as Washington is.

Every energy type has it's drawbacks and waste. With electric cars you have the batteries to dispose of. With Wind and Solar you have the huge land tracts that are needed and huge downtime. With LNG you have the delivery issues.

And then you have the grand daddy of them all with Nuclear waste and potential meltdown due to earthquake or human error.

There's no clean energy. It's simply the lesser of the evils.

How much do all those black super heated solar panels add to global warming. They get damn hot.

Bird and insect murder another minus for wind and solar.