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Welcome to the Hardcore Husky Forums. Folks who are well-known in Cyberland and not that dumb.

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  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,919
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    I don't have a problem with this as long as it's not just used as proxy for greater racial set asides.
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 30,483
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    Another social justice bunch of bull shit!
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 41,658
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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,706
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    This is a business move by the College Board. Know that.

    Several elite schools have dropped the SAT as a requirement. Some did a long time ago. But recently the University of Chicago, of all places, joined their ranks. They are fighting to remain relevant.

    One little secret in educational circles is that the SAT is written for one particular paradigm: the New England boarding school student. Those kids do better on that test than pretty much every demographic, and by a margin.

    I have not read them, but I've read reports of the studies that show the #1 predictor of who well you'll do in college is HS GPA coupled with rigor of HS curriculum. Take hard classes, and do well in them, and you won't find college to be much of a challenge. My understanding is that the SAT and ACT are not good predictors in that high scoring and low scoring kids are all over the place in their college performance. But kids who took a heavy course load in HS and did well tend to do well. Shocking result.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,919
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    I wasn't aware that Jews and Asians made up a significant portion of the New England boarding school population.

  • greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,272
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    edited May 2019
    SFGbob said:

    I wasn't aware that Jews and Asians made up a significant portion of the New England boarding school population.

    Wow...

    This escalated quickly
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,706
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    SFGbob said:

    I wasn't aware that Jews and Asians made up a significant portion of the New England boarding school population.

    There are plenty of both at New England prep schools. It is the curriculum at those schools, and the things they emphasize, that inform a great deal of what is on the SAT.

    One could argue that the academic barriers to entry to those schools makes that group of students a skewed sample. On many variables, they probably are.

    I just know that I wasn't tasked in HS with analyzing obscure Virginia Wolf essays and passages to the same extent my kids were, and they all did better than I did on the SATs and ACTs.

  • HHuskyHHusky Member Posts: 18,954
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    SFGbob said:

    I wasn't aware that Jews and Asians made up a significant portion of the New England boarding school population.

    Do you have some information on how the New England boarding school population does on the SAT and ACT?
  • HHuskyHHusky Member Posts: 18,954
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    This is a business move by the College Board. Know that.

    Several elite schools have dropped the SAT as a requirement. Some did a long time ago. But recently the University of Chicago, of all places, joined their ranks. They are fighting to remain relevant.

    One little secret in educational circles is that the SAT is written for one particular paradigm: the New England boarding school student. Those kids do better on that test than pretty much every demographic, and by a margin.

    I have not read them, but I've read reports of the studies that show the #1 predictor of who well you'll do in college is HS GPA coupled with rigor of HS curriculum. Take hard classes, and do well in them, and you won't find college to be much of a challenge. My understanding is that the SAT and ACT are not good predictors in that high scoring and low scoring kids are all over the place in their college performance. But kids who took a heavy course load in HS and did well tend to do well. Shocking result.

    Absolutely. You can attend Bowdoin, Middlebury or Smith--assuming they'll have you--without taking the SAT or the ACT.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,919
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    edited May 2019
    Who knew that your typical New England bordering school student was either Asian or Jewish.

    Learn something new every day.
  • HHuskyHHusky Member Posts: 18,954
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    SFGbob said:

    Who knew that your typical New England bordering school student was either Asian or Jewish.

    Learn something new every day.

    Something's wrong with you, man. Get a check-up.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,919
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    HHusky said:

    SFGbob said:

    Who knew that your typical New England bordering school student was either Asian or Jewish.

    Learn something new every day.

    Something's wrong with you, man. Get a check-up.
    I can't, I hear the state of Georgia will have me arrested. Weird the way those SAT scores even 30 plus years ago showed that Asians and Jews scored the best. I guess that white privilege has it's limits.
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,706
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    edited May 2019
    SFGbob said:

    Who knew that your typical New England bordering school student was either Asian or Jewish.

    Learn something new every day.

    I didn't say that. You said that.

    And boarding schools have plenty of Jews and Asians. I guess you didn't know that.

    A little research, which I hear you're good at, will reveal the history of the College Board goes back a long way and associations with NE boarding schools had much to do with its creation.

    Some say they haven't strayed very far from their origins.
  • HHuskyHHusky Member Posts: 18,954
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    edited May 2019
    SFGbob said:

    HHusky said:

    SFGbob said:

    Who knew that your typical New England bordering school student was either Asian or Jewish.

    Learn something new every day.

    Something's wrong with you, man. Get a check-up.
    I can't, I hear the state of Georgia will have me arrested. Weird the way those SAT scores even 30 plus years ago showed that Asians and Jews scored the best. I guess that white privilege has it's limits.
    I guess we know how challenging the SAT must have been in your case.

    You can go to the websites of various prestigious New England Prep Schools-- representing a very small population--and see that their standardized test averages are much higher than the averages of any huge racial demographic, like Asians, to use your example.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,919
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    SFGbob said:

    Who knew that your typical New England bordering school student was either Asian or Jewish.

    Learn something new every day.

    I didn't say that. You said that.

    And boarding schools have plenty of Jews and Asians. I guess you didn't know that.

    A little research, which I hear you're good at, will reveal the history of the College Board goes back a long way and associations with NE boarding schools had much to do with its creation.

    Some say they haven't strayed very far from their origins.
    I'm not disputing that NE boarding schools had something to do with the creation of the SAT. Just doubting the Jews and Asians were a significant part of the NE boarding schools going back a long way. Hey could be wrong, maybe I watch too many movies.
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,706
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    SFGbob said:

    SFGbob said:

    Who knew that your typical New England bordering school student was either Asian or Jewish.

    Learn something new every day.

    I didn't say that. You said that.

    And boarding schools have plenty of Jews and Asians. I guess you didn't know that.

    A little research, which I hear you're good at, will reveal the history of the College Board goes back a long way and associations with NE boarding schools had much to do with its creation.

    Some say they haven't strayed very far from their origins.
    I'm not disputing that NE boarding schools had something to do with the creation of the SAT. Just doubting the Jews and Asians were a significant part of the NE boarding schools going back a long way. Hey could be wrong, maybe I watch too many movies.
    Going back a long way? I didn't say that either.

    Today? Yes. Lots of Jews, lots of Asians.

    I assumed you brought that up because that demographic does well on standardized tests. At any rate, I didn't say that only NE boarding school kids do well on those tests, so it doesn't matter.

    But boarding school group almost uniformly does do well on those tests, and a lot of people who look at these things cite the classical style of education they receive at those schools as one reason for this, since that kind of preparation helps on the tests.

    Kids from all over go get coaching and do all manner of other things to give them a leg up. It's not the only way.

    Again, The College Board is fighting for their lives. The University of Chicago dropping the requirement is a watershed event.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,919
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    edited May 2019
    Going back a long way? I didn't say that either.

    history of the College Board goes back a long way and associations with NE boarding schools had much to do with its creation.



    One little secret in educational circles is that the SAT is written for one particular paradigm: the New England boarding school student. Those kids do better on that test than pretty much every demographic, and by a margin.


    I don't doubt that boarding schools kids do better on the SAT than your average High School student.

    But Jews and Asians, historically not the typical NE boarding school student, have been out performing everyone else on the SAT for many years now.
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 22,706
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    SFGbob said:

    Going back a long way? I didn't say that either.

    history of the College Board goes back a long way and associations with NE boarding schools had much to do with its creation.



    One little secret in educational circles is that the SAT is written for one particular paradigm: the New England boarding school student. Those kids do better on that test than pretty much every demographic, and by a margin.


    I don't doubt that boarding schools kids do better on the SAT than your average High School student.

    But Jews and Asians, historically not the typical NE boarding school student, have been out performing everyone else on the SAT.

    The 'going back a long way' part has to do with what the College Board deems is important to test ... the content of the test.

    Jews and Asians have done well on the test by going out and getting the kind of education one needs to do well on the test, along with coaching prep and basically studying the test.

    The basic, non-categorical, assertion is that for those who aren't normally exposed to that kind of education have to go out and make up for it some other way. In Seattle, if you attend Lakeside, you are getting an education that was more or less modeled after what you get at Phillips Exeter, and although those kids also do prep and all that, the baseline curriculum prepares them for the exam. If you go to Rainier Beach, not so much, and you're going to have to do more to mimic the kind of exposure that lends to doing well on the test.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,919
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    SFGbob said:

    Going back a long way? I didn't say that either.

    history of the College Board goes back a long way and associations with NE boarding schools had much to do with its creation.



    One little secret in educational circles is that the SAT is written for one particular paradigm: the New England boarding school student. Those kids do better on that test than pretty much every demographic, and by a margin.


    I don't doubt that boarding schools kids do better on the SAT than your average High School student.

    But Jews and Asians, historically not the typical NE boarding school student, have been out performing everyone else on the SAT.

    The 'going back a long way' part has to do with what the College Board deems is important to test ... the content of the test.

    Jews and Asians have done well on the test by going out and getting the kind of education one needs to do well on the test, along with coaching prep and basically studying the test.

    The basic, non-categorical, assertion is that for those who aren't normally exposed to that kind of education have to go out and make up for it some other way. In Seattle, if you attend Lakeside, you are getting an education that was more or less modeled after what you get at Phillips Exeter, and although those kids also do prep and all that, the baseline curriculum prepares them for the exam. If you go to Rainier Beach, not so much, and you're going to have to do more to mimic the kind of exposure that lends to doing well on the test.
    I agree.
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