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Star Wars - The Rise of Skywalker
jecornel
Member Posts: 9,737
https://youtu.be/adzYW5DZoWsComments
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Rogue One or GTFO!
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This guy’s Twitter is hilarious. He *really* hates Stars Wars.BennyBeaver said:Presented w/o comment
But loves Star Trek.
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Swaye said:
Rogue One or GTFO!
@Swaye - they have a Rogue One TV series in development.
https://ew.com/tv/2018/11/08/star-wars-diego-luna-rogue-one-series/
And I’m all for more Diego Luna.
Rawrrrrrr. -
I will watch it because I set phasers to NERD at all possible times. I'm geeked up for GOT tonight. I am not so nerdy as to have a viewing party, but pretty pumped for it. Gotta get the HBO NOW app today of course, because FUCK YOU DISH.Doog_de_Jour said:Swaye said:Rogue One or GTFO!
@Swaye - they have a Rogue One TV series in development.
https://ew.com/tv/2018/11/08/star-wars-diego-luna-rogue-one-series/
And I’m all for more Diego Luna.
Rawrrrrrr. -
I'm sure the movie will be shit. The last one was en epic disaster. Collosal turd.
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This.Swaye said:Rogue One or GTFO!
As a 44 year old male Star Wars (the actual Star Wars) blew my mind and I’ve been pretty loyal since. Prequels almost killed me, but the Plinkett reviews got me through the dark times.
Episode 7 was shitty and boring, but at least somewhat acceptable... but Rogue One was at least decent. Pacing was a bit slow in the beginning but the last 20 minutes was at least ROTJ level (which isn’t saying a whole lot, but whatever).
The Last Jedi didn’t produce a good enough Plinkett review to justify how fucking terrible it was and having a bunch of incels think the reason it sucked was the forced PC, women leadership, diversity bullshit (which was fucking awful) instead of just realizing that it sucked because it sucked and that shit was immaterial to it sucking, but having to hear them drone on for years about how much that ruined everything... it was too much. I couldn’t even enjoy the Internet shitting on it as much as I usually can.
I tried to watch Solo in the theatre but walked out. I was like, I’m done here.
I think there are only two good SW movies (SW and ESB) and that ROTJ is bad, but acceptable on some level...
But given that since 1980 there has been only 2 movies that are even C level it’s a fucking grim reality that I’ve devoted so much of my life to this bullshit.
In the first 5 years of my life SW and ESB came out and in the 39 years since it’s been a bunch of crap. -
That's how I feel about husky football winning the Natty as a 4 year old and then 24 years of sanctions, lambo, gilby, Ty, Sark.Dennis_DeYoung said:
In the first 5 years of my life SW and ESB came out and in the 39 years since it’s been a bunch of crap.Swaye said:Rogue One or GTFO!
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"I'm sure the movie will be shit. The last one was en epic disaster. Collosal turd."
- Siskel and Cornell At The Movies -
Can someone tell me what part of the timeline this movie is now sitting in? Are we finally at the end of this story? How many more of these movies can Hollywood pump out? I saw the last two that were released (not the Han Solo one, which I didn't know even existed) and thought they were fine as just stand-alone movies. Only the Star Wars superiority guys give a shit about the originals and comparing those to the recent ones, etc.
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When I think about Star Wars too much I start to feel like R. Kelly in his Gayle King interview.BleachedAnusDawg said:Can someone tell me what part of the timeline this movie is now sitting in? Are we finally at the end of this story? How many more of these movies can Hollywood pump out? I saw the last two that were released (not the Han Solo one, which I didn't know even existed) and thought they were fine as just stand-alone movies. Only the Star Wars superiority guys give a shit about the originals and comparing those to the recent ones, etc.
I GAVE Y'ALL 30 YEARS OF MY LIFE AND YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL ME.
In my grad school friend group, we literally banned talking about Star Wars, because one spirited, drunken discussion ended with a relatively serious plot to assassinate George Lucas in his home. -
Dennis_DeYoung said:
This.Swaye said:Rogue One or GTFO!
As a 44 year old male Star Wars (the actual Star Wars) blew my mind and I’ve been pretty loyal since. Prequels almost killed me, but the Plinkett reviews got me through the dark times.
Episode 7 was shitty and boring, but at least somewhat acceptable... but Rogue One was at least decent. Pacing was a bit slow in the beginning but the last 20 minutes was at least ROTJ level (which isn’t saying a whole lot, but whatever).
The Last Jedi didn’t produce a good enough Plinkett review to justify how fucking terrible it was and having a bunch of incels think the reason it sucked was the forced PC, women leadership, diversity bullshit (which was fucking awful) instead of just realizing that it sucked because it sucked and that shit was immaterial to it sucking, but having to hear them drone on for years about how much that ruined everything... it was too much. I couldn’t even enjoy the Internet shitting on it as much as I usually can.
I tried to watch Solo in the theatre but walked out. I was like, I’m done here.
I think there are only two good SW movies (SW and ESB) and that ROTJ is bad, but acceptable on some level...
But given that since 1980 there has been only 2 movies that are even C level it’s a fucking grim reality that I’ve devoted so much of my life to this bullshit.
In the first 5 years of my life SW and ESB came out and in the 39 years since it’s been a bunch of crap.
Exactly. I was raised on the OT and consider a Star Wars and (especially) Empire some of the greatest movies ever made. Movies that shaped my fandom and tastes into my formative years and beyond. TLJ felt like someone I loved and had a healthy marriage with for decades suddenly dropping dead and dying in front of me. Truth is though, it had been deteriorating since 1983. I just kinda didn’t want to admit it.
I was too young at the time to appreciate how crappy the prequels were and yes the Plinkett reviews were cathartic. But TLJ was the only time in my life I felt anger in a theater. And then disgust. It wasn’t the bevy of unremarkable characters. Nor the plot lines to nowhere. Or bizarre casino messaging about the horrors of capitalism...I think?? (Save the space horses but not the slave children, capitalism is horrible ps Star Wars land opens in 2019 get your tickets now!!), and it wasn’t about how the current revenge politics landscape somehow got associated with it. Although that is supremely stupid.
It was the disrespect towards the original movies.
My beloved favorite characters, who I thought beat the bad guys and lived happily ever after, were actually failures who spent their entire lives fighting a horrifying, generations long, losing war that took away everything they ever loved and eventually killed them, but not before passing the horror on to a new cursed generation.
I didn’t see Solo and I probably never will. Now the episode nine trailer is hinting that Palpatine is still alive? Doesn’t that completely invalidate the entirety of the Skywalker arc?
Rogue One was an awesome spectacle and I greatly enjoyed it, but the entire premise of the movie walks back some of the original a little bit. In Star Wars, the point of Luke’s final trench run is that it was a one in 1 million shot. That he had to be completely in tune with the force to hit it.
Nerd rant over and I’ll probably not post about Star Wars again because apparently it still triggers me. Sounds like I care. -
You and Dennis pretty much wrote what I couldn't stand to. The first two are cinema classics. ESB might be my favorite movie ever. ROTJ wasn't the best but was acceptable as a bow to tie up all the ends more or less. I read probably 95% of the extended universe material. Thrawn trilogy is way more interesting than anything the studios have produced since the first three movies.Gladstone said:Dennis_DeYoung said:
This.Swaye said:Rogue One or GTFO!
As a 44 year old male Star Wars (the actual Star Wars) blew my mind and I’ve been pretty loyal since. Prequels almost killed me, but the Plinkett reviews got me through the dark times.
Episode 7 was shitty and boring, but at least somewhat acceptable... but Rogue One was at least decent. Pacing was a bit slow in the beginning but the last 20 minutes was at least ROTJ level (which isn’t saying a whole lot, but whatever).
The Last Jedi didn’t produce a good enough Plinkett review to justify how fucking terrible it was and having a bunch of incels think the reason it sucked was the forced PC, women leadership, diversity bullshit (which was fucking awful) instead of just realizing that it sucked because it sucked and that shit was immaterial to it sucking, but having to hear them drone on for years about how much that ruined everything... it was too much. I couldn’t even enjoy the Internet shitting on it as much as I usually can.
I tried to watch Solo in the theatre but walked out. I was like, I’m done here.
I think there are only two good SW movies (SW and ESB) and that ROTJ is bad, but acceptable on some level...
But given that since 1980 there has been only 2 movies that are even C level it’s a fucking grim reality that I’ve devoted so much of my life to this bullshit.
In the first 5 years of my life SW and ESB came out and in the 39 years since it’s been a bunch of crap.
Exactly. I was raised on the OT and consider a Star Wars and (especially) Empire some of the greatest movies ever made. Movies that shaped my fandom and tastes into my formative years and beyond. TLJ felt like someone I loved and had a healthy marriage with for decades suddenly dropping dead and dying in front of me. Truth is though, it had been deteriorating since 1983. I just kinda didn’t want to admit it.
I was too young at the time to appreciate how crappy the prequels were and yes the Plinkett reviews were cathartic. But TLJ was the only time in my life I felt anger in a theater. And then disgust. It wasn’t the bevy of unremarkable characters. Nor the plot lines to nowhere. Or bizarre casino messaging about the horrors of capitalism...I think?? (Save the space horses but not the slave children, capitalism is horrible ps Star Wars land opens in 2019 get your tickets now!!), and it wasn’t about how the current revenge politics landscape somehow got associated with it. Although that is supremely stupid.
It was the disrespect towards the original movies.
My beloved favorite characters, who I thought beat the bad guys and lived happily ever after, were actually failures who spent their entire lives fighting a horrifying, generations long, losing war that took away everything they ever loved and eventually killed them, but not before passing the horror on to a new cursed generation.
I didn’t see Solo and I probably never will. Now the episode nine trailer is hinting that Palpatine is still alive? Doesn’t that completely invalidate the entirety of the Skywalker arc?
Rogue One was an awesome spectacle and I greatly enjoyed it, but the entire premise of the movie walks back some of the original a little bit. In Star Wars, the point of Luke’s final trench run is that it was a one in 1 million shot. That he had to be completely in tune with the force to hit it.
Nerd rant over and I’ll probably not post about Star Wars again because apparently it still triggers me. Sounds like I care.
The prequels were bad but having watched them since aren't as terrible as I'd remembered. Still rubbish but pablum for a starved fan base and obviously younger fans enjoyed them.
TFA was again, on some level acceptable at the time. I walked out thinking, ok, this isn't great but at least there are some interesting arcs and if the worst I can expect from Disney is a bit of recycling the franchise then ok, you can have my money. This will at least hook my nephews and the next generation so that we can share this nerdy franchise together.
Spot on with TLJ, would have walked out had I not been with my nephews. Just fucking awful on a level that made me feel disgust. It was just a bad movie that was like some kind of bad anti-fan fiction attempting to tear down all of the positives of the other movies. It managed to also ruin TFA by making all of the interesting subplots and arcs completely meaningless. All of this in some attempt to be edgy and different and move on with the franchise. THEN WHY ARE YOU MAKING A MOVIE IN A LONG STANDING FRANCHISE IF YOU DONT CARE ABOUT THE ORIGINAL FRANCHISE MATERIAL?
Both Rogue One and Solo were acceptable if not great. Both suffered from obvious executive micromanagement and could have been vastly better with only minor changes I feel. I guess that happens when you fire people in the middle of making a movie.
I'm going to begrudgingly watch this last movie if only because fuck it, I'm however many movies deep now and how much worse can it be than TLJ? If it is at this point I'll just laugh at it like a bad horror movie or when UW loses to Cal. I'm definitely pirating it and watching it at home on my projector though. -
The Rogue One premise was kind of weird, totally and the first half of the movie was soooo slow it hurts... but the last half of RO just 'felt' like Star Wars. It felt like what I'd want these movies to be like. It was just really placed in the right context and it had that feeling they hit right in some of the video games (that i've never played) where you are simultaneously in a world with the other stuff happening.Gladstone said:Dennis_DeYoung said:
This.Swaye said:Rogue One or GTFO!
As a 44 year old male Star Wars (the actual Star Wars) blew my mind and I’ve been pretty loyal since. Prequels almost killed me, but the Plinkett reviews got me through the dark times.
Episode 7 was shitty and boring, but at least somewhat acceptable... but Rogue One was at least decent. Pacing was a bit slow in the beginning but the last 20 minutes was at least ROTJ level (which isn’t saying a whole lot, but whatever).
The Last Jedi didn’t produce a good enough Plinkett review to justify how fucking terrible it was and having a bunch of incels think the reason it sucked was the forced PC, women leadership, diversity bullshit (which was fucking awful) instead of just realizing that it sucked because it sucked and that shit was immaterial to it sucking, but having to hear them drone on for years about how much that ruined everything... it was too much. I couldn’t even enjoy the Internet shitting on it as much as I usually can.
I tried to watch Solo in the theatre but walked out. I was like, I’m done here.
I think there are only two good SW movies (SW and ESB) and that ROTJ is bad, but acceptable on some level...
But given that since 1980 there has been only 2 movies that are even C level it’s a fucking grim reality that I’ve devoted so much of my life to this bullshit.
In the first 5 years of my life SW and ESB came out and in the 39 years since it’s been a bunch of crap.
Exactly. I was raised on the OT and consider a Star Wars and (especially) Empire some of the greatest movies ever made. Movies that shaped my fandom and tastes into my formative years and beyond. TLJ felt like someone I loved and had a healthy marriage with for decades suddenly dropping dead and dying in front of me. Truth is though, it had been deteriorating since 1983. I just kinda didn’t want to admit it.
I was too young at the time to appreciate how crappy the prequels were and yes the Plinkett reviews were cathartic. But TLJ was the only time in my life I felt anger in a theater. And then disgust. It wasn’t the bevy of unremarkable characters. Nor the plot lines to nowhere. Or bizarre casino messaging about the horrors of capitalism...I think?? (Save the space horses but not the slave children, capitalism is horrible ps Star Wars land opens in 2019 get your tickets now!!), and it wasn’t about how the current revenge politics landscape somehow got associated with it. Although that is supremely stupid.
It was the disrespect towards the original movies.
My beloved favorite characters, who I thought beat the bad guys and lived happily ever after, were actually failures who spent their entire lives fighting a horrifying, generations long, losing war that took away everything they ever loved and eventually killed them, but not before passing the horror on to a new cursed generation.
I didn’t see Solo and I probably never will. Now the episode nine trailer is hinting that Palpatine is still alive? Doesn’t that completely invalidate the entirety of the Skywalker arc?
Rogue One was an awesome spectacle and I greatly enjoyed it, but the entire premise of the movie walks back some of the original a little bit. In Star Wars, the point of Luke’s final trench run is that it was a one in 1 million shot. That he had to be completely in tune with the force to hit it.
Nerd rant over and I’ll probably not post about Star Wars again because apparently it still triggers me. Sounds like I care.
They should get Gareth to direct all of them and refuse to hire celebrities (FWhit's part was totally shoe-horned in and destroyed the entire pace of the first half of the film) and just 'live in that world'.
It actually seemed like it was taking place in the same universe as Star Wars was. Although the encounter with Walrus Man - i'm always like 'whoever recognizes that is going to think it's retarded, why do it?'
It wasn't PERFECT, but it was pretty fucking decent. If the last half of that movie were a starting spot for a slew of them, I would enjoy every one... unfortunately it wasn't. They've been sooooo fucking bad.
Also - that chick is fucking hawt. And they resisted the temptation to have her and DL fall in love and have a love story, which was really nice. They just let the tension build and then they died.
If they wanted, they COULD make a ton of good movies like that with the Bothan spies that died to get the info and all that because we don't know these characters, we know the rebellion is dispersed and we don't know who is going to die so it makes for some decent actual suspense.
The main issue with these blockbusters is we know from the start who will not die. They could have that solved.
But obviously they want to capitalize on their 'big' characters like Han, etc... but those movies are so fucking awful it's insane. -
Finally wised up to @MrPlinkett a while back. Funny as shit, almost chinsightful.
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Hollywood will run Star Wars into the ground. Then, they will wait a bit, hire the newest hotshot young director and reboot it.BleachedAnusDawg said:Can someone tell me what part of the timeline this movie is now sitting in? Are we finally at the end of this story? How many more of these movies can Hollywood pump out? I saw the last two that were released (not the Han Solo one, which I didn't know even existed) and thought they were fine as just stand-alone movies. Only the Star Wars superiority guys give a shit about the originals and comparing those to the recent ones, etc.
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A lot of the tone of this place is kind of Mr. Plinkett and Desus and Mero. Those are the two things I've seen most similar.
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I was 21 when Star Wars came out and I was bitter that they beat Classic Star Trek to the big screen. The Star Wars was awesome and the first Star Trek movie blew chunks and I was like, wow so what do I do now because there is no internet to express my dismay at all this.
The first three Star Wars were solid - great even. Could have stopped there
Star Trek 2 through the Voyage Home were great entertainment.
Jim Kirk was basically my dad growing up. He'll always be the man. I like the reboot too with Chris Pine as a young Kirk. He nails it -
Random thoughts on all this good cathartic shit.
I was 5 years old when my two Dads took me to see Star Wars. My FIRST movie ever in a theater. To say it was mind boggling doesn't do justice to a boggled mind. The music, the size, the spectacle, and Darth Vader's voice....I was mesmerized for years by this. Had the underoos, the lunchboxes, MY FUCKING BEDROOM CURTAINS WERE R2D2!!!! At 8, me and all my poor friends covered the entire living room in white sheets and used pillows to build the ice planet Hoth. Crawled around in it for an entire weekend. Pretended the dog was a Tonton. Nobody cut him open. At 11 me and all my poor friends ran through the forests thinking our dumb asses were on Endor on speeders. We always pushed the fat kid into the tree to die as the Storm Trooper. It was some full on Stranger Things dork shit and IT WAS GLORIOUS. Slave suit Leia took my virginity at 12. I LOVED this franchise beyond all reason.
And then George Lucas gave me Jar Jar Binks after a 20 year wait. You fat fucking asshole! And some shitty kid actor who sucked. And then some shitty teenage actor who sucked. The only redeeming feature to all the movies post ROTJ are Rogue One (a really good movie by almost any measure) and portions of Solo. Everything else has been utter trash. I hate George Lucas and Disney with the burning intensity of a thousand suns. They ruined something magical. They are the dicks who told you Santa isn't real. Fuck them to hell.
Chris Pine and the new Star Trek movies are fucking nails. I am WAY more into them then any of this Star Wars garbage. Also,Alice Eve is slave suit Leia for a whole new generation of boys.
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Fuckin star wars. I used to like it.
Rogue one was good and solo was entertaining -
I walked out on solo because I was live tweeting it and the first 15 minutes are garbage. Some fag told me I couldn’t have my phone on and I was like... wait...
What is this? Fucking Guy Savoy?
This is fucking $5.00 movies at some bumfuck South Carolina theatre where everyone in this bitch is either on meth, opioids or is trying to be. These are white people that have fucking RIP t-shirts and fucking wear camo over that shit.
I’m not going to put down my phone for fuck’s sake. If there’s a last bastion of civility in society and this is it, we are absolutely fucked. You sell people pump cheese on cold chips and call it nachos, charge $8 and you think me on a phone is violating social norms??
FOH.
Anyway, I said “I understand sir” and left. -
The only Star Wars story I’d be interested in seeing at this point would be a Ewan McGregor Obi Wan movie...maybe showing the years between Episodes III and IV.RoadDawg55 said:
Hollywood will run Star Wars into the ground. Then, they will wait a bit, hire the newest hotshot young director and reboot it.BleachedAnusDawg said:Can someone tell me what part of the timeline this movie is now sitting in? Are we finally at the end of this story? How many more of these movies can Hollywood pump out? I saw the last two that were released (not the Han Solo one, which I didn't know even existed) and thought they were fine as just stand-alone movies. Only the Star Wars superiority guys give a shit about the originals and comparing those to the recent ones, etc.
A reboot might be the only way to salvage the franchise. I’m thinking losing the whole kiddie-friendly angle and go something grittier...like what Frank Miller/Tim Burton did with Batman. -
Yes. Grittier is a good word for it. Why is Empire universally acclaimed as the best SW of all time and one of the greatest movies of all time? It was dark. It was foreboding. The good guys didn't win.Doog_de_Jour said:
The only Star Wars story I’d be interested in seeing at this point would be a Ewan McGregor Obi Wan movie...maybe showing the years between Episodes III and IV.RoadDawg55 said:
Hollywood will run Star Wars into the ground. Then, they will wait a bit, hire the newest hotshot young director and reboot it.BleachedAnusDawg said:Can someone tell me what part of the timeline this movie is now sitting in? Are we finally at the end of this story? How many more of these movies can Hollywood pump out? I saw the last two that were released (not the Han Solo one, which I didn't know even existed) and thought they were fine as just stand-alone movies. Only the Star Wars superiority guys give a shit about the originals and comparing those to the recent ones, etc.
A reboot might be the only way to salvage the franchise. I’m thinking losing the whole kiddie-friendly angle and go something grittier...like what Frank Miller/Tim Burton did with Batman.
Rogue One was great because it felt alive, had the look and feel of the original 3, and because the good guys may have won but they all died to do it.
This franchise needs a serious rethink. Darker. More unknown actors. New direction. It is flailing as of now.
I want to see a Boba Fett movie that is basically Dark Knight in space, and the morally ambivalent bounty hunter wins over the white hats. Because fuck white anyway. -
The biggest problem with Star Wars is you have Marty Schottenheimer as the emperor
Big evil guy who builds a massive evil empire but can't keep a death star from being blown up to save his life
Two or three death stars and a death planet gone. No warning just gone -
I've tried showing the Plinkett reviews to soooo many of my friends/family. Every time I wind up turning it off ten minutes in, embarrassed. Why am I not surprised that this hole would be the place where Plinkett is understood and accepted?
As for Star Wars, I've never really cared. The OG are cultural icons, so you HAVE to watch them to get a third of the jokes on TV, but outside of that, I've never been obsessed. I was way more into The Last Starfighter as a kid. I mean, The Last Starfighter has Death Blossom: case closed. And as a young adult, you watch a movie like The Fifth Element, which was so much better at being Star Wars than Star Wars ever was (pew pew pew, lighthearted, not-to-be-taken-seriously semi-space movie), and it's hard to hold even the OG trilogy in super high regard. Never mind that there isn't a single two hour long stretch of Firefly that any Star Wars movie can hold a candle to from an entertainment standpoint.
Sci-Fi is getting better, though, if you ask me. To be fair, I wouldn't even really call Star Wars sci-fi, as the "science" half of the equation in those movies is about on par with Flash Gordon (or Flesh Gordon, the documentary film on which Flash Gordon was based). But, yeah, there is some sci-fi stuff out now that at least comes decently close to being plausible. The Expanse series are great books, and I'm shocked at how good of a job the SyFy Network has done in adapting them for TV. I didn't realize they had that kind of budget! The indie movie Moon was pretty good even thought they lacked the budget to and therefore punted on simulating weightlessness. Arrival and Interstellar were both good, even though the central plot of both was one big grandfather paradox.
Not movies but books, but do yourself a favor: Pick up The Three Body Problem by Cixin Liu. Don't read any reviews or plot spoilers or anything, as it'll be way better if you just dive right in. If you like it, read the rest of the trilogy. It'll make the plot of every movie you watch or book you read from then on seem pointless! "Well, I've read 'The Story' now. Guess I'm all done..."
On that note, I squee-I squee-I squeeze gats 'til my clips is empty.
*True story: Since day one of lurking here, I've read EVERY one of Pumpy's posts in Plinkett's voice and picturing him looking exactly like this. EXACTLY. -
Never mind that there isn't a single two hour long stretch of Firefly that any Star Wars movie can hold a candle to from an entertainment standpoint.
GOAT -
Star Wars is the only real 'Star Wars' movie. A lot of you probably know this, but it was basically written as a movie that would've been three movies, but of course, to make the first one it was cut down to one movie. That's why SW is the only one that feels whole.RaceBannon said:The biggest problem with Star Wars is you have Marty Schottenheimer as the emperor
Big evil guy who builds a massive evil empire but can't keep a death star from being blown up to save his life
Two or three death stars and a death planet gone. No warning just gone
When you realize how much of SW was saved in the edit and that Lucas didn't really have anything to do with ESB... coupled with the Christmas special, it's pretty easy to see that Lucas' genius was all gone after the original movie. He happened to have a great team around him and everyone pitched in to make a helluva movie.
ESB was a completely different tone and style of movie and it was the only other movie that was really 'free' to exist because the second act in Star Wars was just them on the Death Star escaping.
By the time ROTJ came around, the plot was literally cobbled together from remnants of the first 3-act script so the movie is essentially a re-telling of SW and ESB.
When ROTJ came out I was 8 years old and EVEN THEN I thought the Ewoks (wookie backwards, get it?!?!) were an obvious rip off of the Wookies to sell more toys, I was stunned that the fucking empire was so retarded that they rebuilt the fucking Death Star with an EVEN EASIER way to blow it up...
It just seemed so diet.
Now that I'm an adult and understand inertia and money, I get what happened. Lucas didn't GAF about anything but toy money and they just sewed the two scripts together:
ACT I straight from SW
-start on Tatooine, but now Luke's gotta be a Jedi
-Second version of the Cantina scene
-escape a sticky situation;
ACT II plot from SW and ESB
-Death Star about to be operational and fuck everyone up
-'...I am your father battle redux'
-Desperate times and a loss for the rebellion
ACT III plot from the first script for SW where the primitive wookies rise up to take out the empire and the first ending from SW
-Ewoks there for no reason, Joseph Campbell shit, noble savages help topple technologically advanced people who've lost their souls
-'I am your father' scene extended to now be with the Emperor too
-Same exact ending from SW basically
...I was 8 so yeah, I loved the Scout Troopers and their rocket bikes and I liked the Red Imperial Guards and shit...
But other than that everything was super diet. Darth Vader turned into a feeg, the Emperor never seemed that more badass than DV did in SW, even at 8 I found the Ewoks annoying, pandering and the plot ridiculous.
I found the Jaba storyline pointless (which it was) - it was the beginning of making every character into some superhero instead of just normal people inhabiting an interesting reality and doing normal things.
The Yoda shit where he died when Luke came back? I mean WTF... so fucking retarded. Then everyone is not really dead? Why don't they just die up front and get it over with...
So, ROTJ has some of the magic of the first couple, but it was already over.
I feel like it was over after Chew and Marcia Lucas finished the edit, ILM did the effects and JW did the score. After that, Lucas never did another fucking thing worth a shit.
The prequels were essentially on the same level as the Christmas Special and so was everything else he did.
ESB was just Kirshner being a badass with a GREAT set up for a cool movie.
Then, since then what has happened? Nothing. George just got fatter, more bored, more prosaic and Marcia left him and now he's married to a fat chick.
If you are worth a billion dollars and your wife leaves you and you marry a fat chick, you know something is rotten in Denmark.
George's great accomplishment was Star Wars. I have always felt like it's a better accomplishment than ESB because to go from nothing to creating that world was fucking incredible.
Nothing had ever looked like that, nothing had ever felt like that. Hell, the previous year, the best Sci Fi movie was fucking Logan's Run (which I love, but come on).
That scene where Darth Vader enters the rebel ship after everyone gets killed... unreal.
Unfortunately nothing really happened after that. Just all downhill except for Kirshner's and co's excellent treatment of a script that essentially goes nowhere...
Examining the plot from ESB tells you again, it was mostly carved out of concepts from the original SW script anyway...
Yoda and Obi-Wan never made sense as two characters... it was always supposed to be just Obi-Wan, but since they killed him off, they needed to put in an OG Jedi...
The meeting between Luke and Darth was supposed to be in SW when Obi-Wan and Darth fought, but it was too early for that confrontation in SW and Lucas wanted a hero to die in that one.
Hoth looked cool, but it was just to get the story started.
Cloud city and the betrayal by Lando was shoe-horned in as a second version of them going to the death star.
So yeah...
Anyway, I've thought about this a lot. I love Star Wars. That movie is the shit and I always love to watch ESB... but ROTJ was pretty pathetic and we were on the B-Team with Yoda (b version of Obi-Wan) and the Emperor (b-version of DV).
Also, Moff Tarkin was scarier in SW than the Emperor was in ROTJ. -
nerdDennis_DeYoung said:
Star Wars is the only real 'Star Wars' movie. A lot of you probably know this, but it was basically written as a movie that would've been three movies, but of course, to make the first one it was cut down to one movie. That's why SW is the only one that feels whole.RaceBannon said:The biggest problem with Star Wars is you have Marty Schottenheimer as the emperor
Big evil guy who builds a massive evil empire but can't keep a death star from being blown up to save his life
Two or three death stars and a death planet gone. No warning just gone
When you realize how much of SW was saved in the edit and that Lucas didn't really have anything to do with ESB... coupled with the Christmas special, it's pretty easy to see that Lucas' genius was all gone after the original movie. He happened to have a great team around him and everyone pitched in to make a helluva movie.
ESB was a completely different tone and style of movie and it was the only other movie that was really 'free' to exist because the second act in Star Wars was just them on the Death Star escaping.
By the time ROTJ came around, the plot was literally cobbled together from remnants of the first 3-act script so the movie is essentially a re-telling of SW and ESB.
When ROTJ came out I was 8 years old and EVEN THEN I thought the Ewoks (wookie backwards, get it?!?!) were an obvious rip off of the Wookies to sell more toys, I was stunned that the fucking empire was so retarded that they rebuilt the fucking Death Star with an EVEN EASIER way to blow it up...
It just seemed so diet.
Now that I'm an adult and understand inertia and money, I get what happened. Lucas didn't GAF about anything but toy money and they just sewed the two scripts together:
ACT I straight from SW
-start on Tatooine, but now Luke's gotta be a Jedi
-Second version of the Cantina scene
-escape a sticky situation;
ACT II plot from SW and ESB
-Death Star about to be operational and fuck everyone up
-'...I am your father battle redux'
-Desperate times and a loss for the rebellion
ACT III plot from the first script for SW where the primitive wookies rise up to take out the empire and the first ending from SW
-Ewoks there for no reason, Joseph Campbell shit, noble savages help topple technologically advanced people who've lost their souls
-'I am your father' scene extended to now be with the Emperor too
-Same exact ending from SW basically
...I was 8 so yeah, I loved the Scout Troopers and their rocket bikes and I liked the Red Imperial Guards and shit...
But other than that everything was super diet. Darth Vader turned into a feeg, the Emperor never seemed that more badass than DV did in SW, even at 8 I found the Ewoks annoying, pandering and the plot ridiculous.
I found the Jaba storyline pointless (which it was) - it was the beginning of making every character into some superhero instead of just normal people inhabiting an interesting reality and doing normal things.
The Yoda shit where he died when Luke came back? I mean WTF... so fucking retarded. Then everyone is not really dead? Why don't they just die up front and get it over with...
So, ROTJ has some of the magic of the first couple, but it was already over.
I feel like it was over after Chew and Marcia Lucas finished the edit, ILM did the effects and JW did the score. After that, Lucas never did another fucking thing worth a shit.
The prequels were essentially on the same level as the Christmas Special and so was everything else he did.
ESB was just Kirshner being a badass with a GREAT set up for a cool movie.
Then, since then what has happened? Nothing. George just got fatter, more bored, more prosaic and Marcia left him and now he's married to a fat chick.
If you are worth a billion dollars and your wife leaves you and you marry a fat chick, you know something is rotten in Denmark.
George's great accomplishment was Star Wars. I have always felt like it's a better accomplishment than ESB because to go from nothing to creating that world was fucking incredible.
Nothing had ever looked like that, nothing had ever felt like that. Hell, the previous year, the best Sci Fi movie was fucking Logan's Run (which I love, but come on).
That scene where Darth Vader enters the rebel ship after everyone gets killed... unreal.
Unfortunately nothing really happened after that. Just all downhill except for Kirshner's and co's excellent treatment of a script that essentially goes nowhere...
Examining the plot from ESB tells you again, it was mostly carved out of concepts from the original SW script anyway...
Yoda and Obi-Wan never made sense as two characters... it was always supposed to be just Obi-Wan, but since they killed him off, they needed to put in an OG Jedi...
The meeting between Luke and Darth was supposed to be in SW when Obi-Wan and Darth fought, but it was too early for that confrontation in SW and Lucas wanted a hero to die in that one.
Hoth looked cool, but it was just to get the story started.
Cloud city and the betrayal by Lando was shoe-horned in as a second version of them going to the death star.
So yeah...
Anyway, I've thought about this a lot. I love Star Wars. That movie is the shit and I always love to watch ESB... but ROTJ was pretty pathetic and we were on the B-Team with Yoda (b version of Obi-Wan) and the Emperor (b-version of DV).
Also, Moff Tarkin was scarier in SW than the Emperor was in ROTJ. -
I'm just going to see myself out of this thread. I honestly have no understanding of 81% of the dialogue being shared here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJ7A_o2Toog
