Observation of modern offenses

Fire_Marshall_Bill

There's some major trend of having three dudes just camp out around the three point line and wait for shots. Maybe they move a little to get open, or drive, then kick out. Some "post" guy comes out and sets a pick for a second. It's boring as fuck and unwatchable. That and the ball hogs who drive and throw up shots. Or oooh you pulled up and made a three. Good job pal.

Time to eliminate the three point line or encourage real post play and mid range jumpers. This is crap.

backthepack

Houhusky

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

There's some major trend of having three dudes just camp out around the three point line and wait for shots. Maybe they move a little to get open, or drive, then kick out. Some "post" guy comes out and sets a pick for a second. It's boring as fuck and unwatchable. That and the ball hogs who drive and throw up shots. Or oooh you pulled up and made a three. Good job pal.

Time to eliminate the three point line or encourage real post play and mid range jumpers. This is crap.

IMO it has to do with the fact that hand checking and on ball defending is called more tightly now AND in general nba players have become better at shooting the three.

The game is less physical now, the court more spread out allowing for much more space for the one on one drives or high pick and roll offense with a super star to operate in.

A relaxation of the hand checking rules and recent epidemic of soft blocking foul calls where the driver is leaning/jumping into the defender would fix a lot of the "problem"

NEsnake12

Houhusky said:

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

There's some major trend of having three dudes just camp out around the three point line and wait for shots. Maybe they move a little to get open, or drive, then kick out. Some "post" guy comes out and sets a pick for a second. It's boring as fuck and unwatchable. That and the ball hogs who drive and throw up shots. Or oooh you pulled up and made a three. Good job pal.

Time to eliminate the three point line or encourage real post play and mid range jumpers. This is crap.

IMO it has to do with the fact that hand checking and on ball defending is called more tightly now AND in general nba players have become better at shooting the three.

The game is less physical now, the court more spread out allowing for much more space for the one on one drives or high pick and roll offense with a super star to operate in.

A relaxation of the hand checking rules and recent epidemic of soft blocking foul calls where the driver is leaning/jumping into the defender would fix a lot of the "problem"

If players like Harden are less likely to draw soft foul calls while they drive, then they’ll be even more likely to jack up 3’s

greenblood

Players don't have the ball skills that earlier players had.

My biggest problem is they've gone the NFL route but for different reasons. The NFL crippled defenses more for safety reasons, while the NBA did it for marketing reasons.

Just 10 years ago 106 points per a game would rank your team just behind Steve Nash's Phoenix Suns team for the league lead in scoring. Now, 106 points per game would rank you just behind the Phoenix Suns for 13th in the West and 25th overall.

The All Star game a couple years ago had almost 400 combine points. That should be all you need to know about the state of the NBA game.

RaceBannon

greenblood said:

Players don't have the ball skills that earlier players had.

My biggest problem is they've gone the NFL route but for different reasons. The NFL crippled defenses more for safety reasons, while the NBA did it for marketing reasons.

Just 10 years ago 106 points per a game would rank your team just behind Steve Nash's Phoenix Suns team for the league lead in scoring. Now, 106 points per game would rank you just behind the Phoenix Suns for 13th in the West and 25th overall.

The All Star game a couple years ago had almost 400 combine points. That should be all you need to know about the state of the NBA game.

I feel like somehow millennials need to be blamed here. Its become SOP

greenblood

I would argue that super teams have also ruined the game. The NBA has always had a parity problem, where you had only 6-7 teams with realistic chances of winning the finals. Even with that the difference between them and the rest of the field wasn't terrible. Mid level teams could still compete day in and day out.

Now you might have 4 teams with a realistic shot, and the teams below them shouldn't even bother showing up. The disparity between the have's and have not's is huge.

And with the stars constantly changing teams from one year to the next, you never get long lasting rivalries. Think Lakers/Celtics, Bulls/Knicks, Pacers/Knicks, etc.

PurpleThrobber

RaceBannon said:

greenblood said:

Players don't have the ball skills that earlier players had.

My biggest problem is they've gone the NFL route but for different reasons. The NFL crippled defenses more for safety reasons, while the NBA did it for marketing reasons.

Just 10 years ago 106 points per a game would rank your team just behind Steve Nash's Phoenix Suns team for the league lead in scoring. Now, 106 points per game would rank you just behind the Phoenix Suns for 13th in the West and 25th overall.

The All Star game a couple years ago had almost 400 combine points. That should be all you need to know about the state of the NBA game.

I feel like somehow millennials parents need to be blamed here. Its become SOP

Youth travel teams have killed competitive basketball at all levels.

DawgFader

It can be argued the game has become less enjoyable to watch. It’s a simple statistical advantage though, you score 50% more points per made shot and the rebound trajectory creates more offensive rebounds. Since few teams are really playing tough extended defense the strategy can be that much more effective.

Box out, crash the boards and contest shots like Hopkins D, fire up threes or let Nowell mod fame the opponent to death on the other end and let Dickerson clean it up. Is starting to prove it self.

89ute

Stockton & Malone - The Art Of The Pick&Roll

Best NBA basketball ever. Lost interest after John and Karl left. Bunch of fucking injured pussys anymore. These guys played damn near every game in their careers. Epic battles with the Spurs, Suns, Sonics, Blazers, Rockets and Bulls.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XLvqH9qoik

PurpleThrobber

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjebTwqoDjs

Of course the Ute would like that bullshit two man game of Stockton and Malone. But basketball is a five man game.

If anybody would put Doug Moe's offensive philosophy into play in 2019, they'd destroy the opposition. Kids don't know how to defend away from the ball at all. They can hedge and show on the high ball screen but they don't know how to do shit other than recover on defense.

There's more off-ball screens and movement in 1 minute of this video than an entire NBA game today.

2001400ex

I'm surprised more teams haven't taken on what Golden State does. I mean they have gone to shooting the 3 because 3 x 40% > 2 x 46%. But the way Golden State does it is different. There's a ton of movement of the ball. Not much dribbling, lot of passing.

And the old school two man have doesn't work well anymore because they can play a zone and guard the key again. Remember all the illegal defense fouls back in the day? Fuck that. Not to mention the math equation above.

HillsboroDuck

2001400ex said:

I'm surprised more teams haven't taken on what Golden State does. I mean they have gone to shooting the 3 because 3 x 40% > 2 x 46%. But the way Golden State does it is different. There's a ton of movement of the ball. Not much dribbling, lot of passing.

And the old school two man have doesn't work well anymore because they can play a zone and guard the key again. Remember all the illegal defense fouls back in the day? Fuck that. Not to mention the math equation above.

2s age much higher than 46%, especially when you factor much more frequent trips to the line, but yes, the math conclusion is correct.

Great point on the defensive rule changes. Stockton and Malone ball was boring shit anyway. You could still run it even with today’s rules if you surrounded them with three three point shooters though. That hypothetical offense would be virtually unstoppable.

Baphomet

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

There's some major trend of having three dudes just camp out around the three point line and wait for shots. Maybe they move a little to get open, or drive, then kick out. Some "post" guy comes out and sets a pick for a second. It's boring as fuck and unwatchable. That and the ball hogs who drive and throw up shots. Or oooh you pulled up and made a three. Good job pal.

Time to eliminate the three point line or encourage real post play and mid range jumpers. This is crap.

I think instead we should add another line further out, called the four point line.

greenblood

Baphomet said:

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

There's some major trend of having three dudes just camp out around the three point line and wait for shots. Maybe they move a little to get open, or drive, then kick out. Some "post" guy comes out and sets a pick for a second. It's boring as fuck and unwatchable. That and the ball hogs who drive and throw up shots. Or oooh you pulled up and made a three. Good job pal.

Time to eliminate the three point line or encourage real post play and mid range jumpers. This is crap.

I think instead we should add another line further out, called the four point line.

Or let teams knock the shit out of you like the late 80's early 90's Pistons.

allpurpleallgold

HillsboroDuck said:

2001400ex said:

I'm surprised more teams haven't taken on what Golden State does. I mean they have gone to shooting the 3 because 3 x 40% > 2 x 46%. But the way Golden State does it is different. There's a ton of movement of the ball. Not much dribbling, lot of passing.

And the old school two man have doesn't work well anymore because they can play a zone and guard the key again. Remember all the illegal defense fouls back in the day? Fuck that. Not to mention the math equation above.

2s age much higher than 46%, especially when you factor much more frequent trips to the line, but yes, the math conclusion is correct.

Great point on the defensive rule changes. Stockton and Malone ball was boring shit anyway. You could still run it even with today’s rules if you surrounded them with three three point shooters though. That hypothetical offense would be virtually unstoppable.

Teams would just switch the pick and roll. Yeah you’d get some really nice post ups for Malone in a mismatch but every time he couldn’t immediately get good position you’d end up with Stockton trying to do something 1 on 1 at the end of the clock. That’s not a great offense.

Also Malone is playing center on this team, they’d be terrible defensively.

RoadDawg55

89ute said:

Stockton & Malone - The Art Of The Pick&Roll

Best NBA basketball ever. Lost interest after John and Karl left. Bunch of fucking injured pussys anymore. These guys played damn near every game in their careers. Epic battles with the Spurs, Suns, Sonics, Blazers, Rockets and Bulls.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XLvqH9qoik

Bulls-Jazz gets a good reputation because of Jordan, but that was some horrible basketball. Basketball continued to suck after that until the Lakers-Celtics finals in 2008.

UW_Doog_Bot

RoadDawg55 said:

89ute said:

Stockton & Malone - The Art Of The Pick&Roll

Best NBA basketball ever. Lost interest after John and Karl left. Bunch of fucking injured pussys anymore. These guys played damn near every game in their careers. Epic battles with the Spurs, Suns, Sonics, Blazers, Rockets and Bulls.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XLvqH9qoik

Bulls-Jazz gets a good reputation because of Jordan, but that was some horrible basketball. Basketball continued to suck after that until the Lakers-Celtics finals in 2008.

I was there. Fucking epic.