Chuck Armstrong's career W-L record speaks for itself. So does being the only American League team to never reach a World Series.
The guy held the franchise back and was very lucky that Piniella came here(had little to do with Chuck) to turn around the franchise.
The Mariners have had only 11 winning seasons in their franchise history and Piniella was manager for 7 of them. The franchise was garbage before him and took only two years after his departure to return to garbage.
To say Chuck Armstrong is anything less than a terrible team president is just revisionist history at its finest.
Ellis brought in Lou. Ellis and Lou brought in Gillick. Armstrong and Lincoln are the problem. One down, one to go. Lincoln is 73, and has no reason to hang around except that nobody is shoving him out. As long as they make money, the minority owners who call the shots don't give a damn. No decent manager or GM wants to work for him.
Look. If I came to you in 2003 after the Mariners won more than 90 games for the fourth consecutive year, you couldn't say anything but Armstrong was doing an excellent job as president. When he returned to the team from UW the Ms went from one of the worst franchises in MLB to one of the best. You can't just exclude him from any credit over that time span. It's like doogs excusing Emmert for Turner, Ty, Woody, etc.
The last 10 years were a failure and have tarnished his legacy since. No one's disagreeing with that.
Look. If I came to you in 2003 after the Mariners won more than 90 games for the fourth consecutive year, you couldn't say anything but Armstrong was doing an excellent job as president. When he returned to the team from UW the Ms went from one of the worst franchises in MLB to one of the best. You can't just exclude him from any credit over that time span. It's like doogs excusing Emmert for Turner, Ty, Woody, etc.
The last 10 years were a failure and have tarnished his legacy since. No one's disagreeing with that.
There were plenty of Mariner fans back then who were pissed the team never freed up the money to acquire the trade deadline help that was needed to get over the hump.
There were a lot of us who were not licking Armstrong's balls even back then. Everything that happened afterwards obviously confirmed those suspicions.
I think your Emmert comp is apropos but you're coming at it from the wrong direction. You are giving Armstrong way too much credit for some success he lucked into long ago ala Emmert with Saban.
Look. If I came to you in 2003 after the Mariners won more than 90 games for the fourth consecutive year, you couldn't say anything but Armstrong was doing an excellent job as president. When he returned to the team from UW the Ms went from one of the worst franchises in MLB to one of the best. You can't just exclude him from any credit over that time span. It's like doogs excusing Emmert for Turner, Ty, Woody, etc.
The last 10 years were a failure and have tarnished his legacy since. No one's disagreeing with that.
There were plenty of Mariner fans back then who were pissed the team never freed up the money to acquire the trade deadline help that was needed to get over the hump.
There were a lot of us who were not licking Armstrong's balls even back then. Everything that happened afterwards obviously confirmed those suspicions.
I think your Emmert comp is apropos but you're coming at it from the wrong direction. You are giving Armstrong way too much credit for some success he lucked into long ago ala Emmert with Saban.
That's how I recall it as well. Knowledgeable fans were pissed in 2002 and 2003 that we didn't make a move at the deadline. Those teams really needed another bat. Looking at the rosters and stats now, they needed another starter in 2002 as well. I specifically remember Aaron Boone being available, him wanting to play with his brother Bret, and the M's not acquiring him and sticking with Jeff Cirillo. The Yankees
Even in 2001, fans were disappointed, although it was hard to be too pissed off when a team is winning at the rate the M's were. The team was selling out every game and Armstrong had no excuse of not upgrading the team and going all out for a World Series. While they didn't have a low payroll, they certainly could have added some more payroll. It was the Golden Era for Mariners baseball, but they only made minor moves after 2001. A real team would go all out after winning 116 games. Fuck Nintendo, Armstrong, and Lincoln. I haven't watched more than 50 Mariner's games since 2003. The past two years I have not watched one inning of baseball besides going to one Dodgers game.
Chuck Armstrong's career W-L record speaks for itself. So does being the only American League team to never reach a World Series.
The guy held the franchise back and was very lucky that Piniella came here(had little to do with Chuck) to turn around the franchise.
The Mariners have had only 11 winning seasons in their franchise history and Piniella was manager for 7 of them. The franchise was garbage before him and took only two years after his departure to return to garbage.
To say Chuck Armstrong is anything less than a terrible team president is just revisionist history at its finest.
I wouldn't say terrible, but he was below average for sure. I didn't know he was around in the 80's. Those were some god awful teams too. Argyros was a terrible owner, but still ..
It always pisses me off thinking about the teams that have made and/or won World Series that came into MLB Since they did... since it's every single team... And the freaking Marlins and Blue Jays both won it twice.
Saying Armstrong is a good president or even defending him I'd say is like Kim saying "But how was Emmert a bad president?".
In 2003 the fans were pissed at him. If you recall the fans were furious when they stood pat once again and Jeff Nelson sounded off as he always had a good feel for the fans. So they promptly traded him to New York.
Armstrong wasn't at all popular in 2003 and like I pointed out that success had more to do with Lou Piniella as the quickly fell apart after he left.
Anytime you can turn having the 2 best players at their positions of all time and a top 3 left handed pitcher of all time into 0 World Series appearences and more than a decade of sucking you have to be considered a success.
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The guy held the franchise back and was very lucky that Piniella came here(had little to do with Chuck) to turn around the franchise.
The Mariners have had only 11 winning seasons in their franchise history and Piniella was manager for 7 of them. The franchise was garbage before him and took only two years after his departure to return to garbage.
To say Chuck Armstrong is anything less than a terrible team president is just revisionist history at its finest.
I'm on the twitterz: https://twitter.com/CollegeDoog
Who gives a fuck?
The last 10 years were a failure and have tarnished his legacy since. No one's disagreeing with that.
There were a lot of us who were not licking Armstrong's balls even back then. Everything that happened afterwards obviously confirmed those suspicions.
I think your Emmert comp is apropos but you're coming at it from the wrong direction. You are giving Armstrong way too much credit for some success he lucked into long ago ala Emmert with Saban.
Even in 2001, fans were disappointed, although it was hard to be too pissed off when a team is winning at the rate the M's were. The team was selling out every game and Armstrong had no excuse of not upgrading the team and going all out for a World Series. While they didn't have a low payroll, they certainly could have added some more payroll. It was the Golden Era for Mariners baseball, but they only made minor moves after 2001. A real team would go all out after winning 116 games. Fuck Nintendo, Armstrong, and Lincoln. I haven't watched more than 50 Mariner's games since 2003. The past two years I have not watched one inning of baseball besides going to one Dodgers game.
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It always pisses me off thinking about the teams that have made and/or won World Series that came into MLB Since they did... since it's every single team... And the freaking Marlins and Blue Jays both won it twice.
In 2003 the fans were pissed at him. If you recall the fans were furious when they stood pat once again and Jeff Nelson sounded off as he always had a good feel for the fans. So they promptly traded him to New York.
Armstrong wasn't at all popular in 2003 and like I pointed out that success had more to do with Lou Piniella as the quickly fell apart after he left.