Mightier military vis-a-vis the contemporary competition: Imperial Germany or Nazi Germany?

GrundleStiltzkin

Doog_de_Jour said:

Some think he knew *way* before that, but yes, he was officially told at Potsdam.

http://www.thehistoryreader.com/modern-history/much-stalin-know/

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/spies-who-spilled-atomic-bomb-secrets-127922660/

Fuck those guys

BearsWiin

WW2 Nazi Germany

I got through about 8 minutes of that podcast before turning it off because he never talked about the topic at hand, he just talked about talking about it. If I ever started my lectures with that much rambling bullshit, I couldn't blame my students for walking out.

Hippopeteamus

WW1 Imperial Germany

Doog_de_Jour said:

Gladstone said:

Now what would have been interesting: if the Japanese acquiesced to Hitler's request to attack the eastern USSR instead of Pearl Harbor. This would have kept the US neutral. It would have prevented the Siberian reinforcements at Moscow 1941.

Pity Khalkhin Gol permanently scared the Japs from ever taking on Russia again.

The US’s entry into WW2 was inevitable. The Japanese had always planned to attack the Philippines (which was under US rule at this point) as they needed it’s resources and it’s air bases. That’s a big part of why Pearl Harbor was attacked, the Japanese wanted to take out the US’ best chance of protecting their overseas possessions in the area.

Also the US was already fighting German U-boats in the Atlantic. The Reuben James was sunk while on convoy duty in October and US destroyers had engaged German U-boats. It was only a matter of time until the US joined officially as it was clear FDR wanted to fight.

Swaye

WW2 Nazi Germany

Doog_de_Jour said:

YellowSnow said:

Doog_de_Jour said:

YellowSnow said:

Sledog said:

YellowSnow said:

Sledog said:

Neither!

America #1

They both lost. Winning counts especially in war.

Sure winners win and loser lose. But still....it's not like the USA circa 1941- 45 could have defeated Germany mano y mano. Same with 1917 USA vs Germany. In either instance, other countries killed far more Germans than we did.

We would have beaten them alone if need be. Only Russia killed more but they wouldn't have if we weren't supplying them and the Brits and France etc. We were the engine of that war and defeated the Japanese at the same damn time!

Doubtful; the cost if lives would have been far more than a democracy such as ours could bear. If you took all the divisions that Germany had in the East and lined them up along the Atlantic Coast, they could have repelled a US invasion of any size rather easily.

It’s tough to tell. Prior to WWI nobody would say that the US was a military power, but they had many successes against Mexico, Spain, and Filipino revolutionaries, and some quality wins in those fun “Banana Wars” . Plus the Navy had made some gains in moderation at that point. So we had the recruits/troops, newer facilities/weapons, and coaches/military leadership, we just hadn’t really played anybody yet. You could say we were the Boise State of the time.

In the ramp up to WWII in addition to the American people wanting nothing to do with European wars again, much of the US military budget had been slashed to help fund economic recovery/ FDR’s New Deal (interesting as he made one of his early career claims to fame in the Navy department).

So yes, if the US had to play the Germans at the start of the wars ala UW/Auburn on a non-neutral field, they would’ve gotten their asses handed to them, BUT they didn’t and if there’s one thing the US has smoked many other nations in militarily (besides technology) is resources - manpower, raw materials, sheer land mass (oh, and speed, speed, SPEED!). Even with fighting on multiple fronts, we would have eventually worn out Germany.

I wish my wife would offer tuff military history hot takes.

In your lovely bride’s defense military history isn’t exactly a subject offered to many women. I only got into it because Grandpa_de_Jour was a history nut and would take my brother and I to all these famous battlefields growing up. It was how we bonded.

I *might* stalk you more now. Don't tell anyone.

Swaye

WW2 Nazi Germany

It's a really weird feeling to come to HH and actually learn interesting things.

Swaye

WW2 Nazi Germany

Also, @YellowSnow 11-3 WW2! Suck it!

Swaye

WW2 Nazi Germany

FRANNY

LebamDawg

WW2 Nazi Germany

Hippopeteamus said:

Doog_de_Jour said:

Gladstone said:

Now what would have been interesting: if the Japanese acquiesced to Hitler's request to attack the eastern USSR instead of Pearl Harbor. This would have kept the US neutral. It would have prevented the Siberian reinforcements at Moscow 1941.

Pity Khalkhin Gol permanently scared the Japs from ever taking on Russia again.

The US’s entry into WW2 was inevitable. The Japanese had always planned to attack the Philippines (which was under US rule at this point) as they needed it’s resources and it’s air bases. That’s a big part of why Pearl Harbor was attacked, the Japanese wanted to take out the US’ best chance of protecting their overseas possessions in the area.

Also the US was already fighting German U-boats in the Atlantic. The Reuben James was sunk while on convoy duty in October and US destroyers had engaged German U-boats. It was only a matter of time until the US joined officially as it was clear FDR wanted to fight.

he had to wait for the japs because he didn't have a leg to stand on.

YellowSnow

WW1 Imperial Germany

BearsWiin said:

I got through about 8 minutes of that podcast before turning it off because he never talked about the topic at hand, he just talked about talking about it. If I ever started my lectures with that much rambling bullshit, I couldn't blame my students for walking out.

It's been a while since I listened to this particular pod. It was necessary, however, to cite Carlin since he was the inspiration for this pole. He has a few of these "addendum" pods which are for Dan to go off on random tangents and perhaps not be as focused as his usual stuff. That said, his pod is more geared toward the layman and may be a bit too rudimentry for someone like yourself with a lot of post grad study in these areas.

YellowSnow

WW1 Imperial Germany

Swaye said:

Also, @YellowSnow 11-3 WW2! Suck it!

Yeah, I wasn't expecting WW1 Germany to win with the voters here. Third Reich will always be the sexier, trendy pick with all the sizzle. That said, I remain steadfast in my opinion that they were somewhat overrated and feasted on a weak schedule. France in WW1 was legit and willing to bleed to death to keep the Germans from Paris.