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Guns or Liberty?

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  • TierbsHsotBoobs
    TierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    edited February 2018
    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
  • TierbsHsotBoobs
    TierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    doogie said:


    Here’s what the Florida Teacher of he Year has to say about it



    Okay, I’ll be the bad guy and say what no one else is brave enough to say, but wants to say. I’ll take all the criticism and attacks from everyone because you know what? I’m a TEACHER. I live this life daily. And I wouldn’t do anything else! But I also know daily I could end up in an active shooter situation.

    Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it-violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. Our kids don’t understand the permanency of death anymore!!!

    I grew up with guns. Everyone knows that. But you know what? My parents NEVER supported any bad behavior from me. I was terrified of doing something bad at school, as I would have not had a life until I corrected the problem and straightened my ass out. My parents invaded my life. They knew where I was ALL the time. They made me have a curfew. They made me wake them up when I got home. They made me respect their rules. They had full control of their house, and at any time could and would go through every inch of my bedroom, backpack, pockets, anything! Parents: it’s time to STEP UP! Be the parent that actually gives a crap! Be the annoying mom that pries and knows what your kid is doing. STOP being their friend. They have enough “friends” at school. Be their parent. Being the “cool mom” means not a damn thing when either your kid is dead or your kid kills other people because they were allowed to have their space and privacy in YOUR HOME. I’ll say it again. My home was filled with guns growing up. For God’s sake, my daddy was an 82nd Airborne Ranger who lost half his face serving our country. But you know what? I never dreamed of shooting anyone with his guns. I never dreamed of taking one! I was taught respect for human life, compassion, rules, common decency, and most of all, I was taught that until I moved out, my life and bedroom wasn’t mine…it was theirs. And they were going to know what was happening because they loved me and wanted the best for me.

    There. Say that I’m a horrible person. I didn’t bring up gun control, and I will refuse to debate it with anyone. This post wasn’t about gun control. This was me, loving the crap out of people and wanting the best for them. This was about my school babies and knowing that God created each one for greatness, and just wanting them to reach their futures. It’s about 20 years ago this year I started my teaching career. Violence was not this bad 20 years ago. Lack of compassion wasn’t this bad 20 years ago. And God knows 20 years ago that I wasn’t afraid daily to call a parent because I KNEW that 9 out of 10 would cuss me out, tell me to go to Hell, call the news on me, call the school board on me, or post all over FaceBook about me because I called to let them know what their child chose to do at school…because they are a NORMAL kid!!!!!

    Those 17 lives mattered. When are we going to take our own responsibility seriously?


  • TurdBomber
    TurdBomber Member Posts: 20,051 Standard Supporter
    Blackie said:

    Why were there less shootings in the 80's and 90's?

    there are far less shootings now than there were in the 80s and 90s
    Let me just point out to the statistically impaired and retarded that this statement is utterly invalid and wrong without defining the time period that constitutes "now."

    We are so fucked.
  • Sledog
    Sledog Member Posts: 38,592 Standard Supporter

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    Just your doctor.
  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457

    2001400ex said:

    doogie said:

    Seems to me, these attacks are over in a matter of a few minutes. Without armed support in the schools themselves, or the threat a school “ could” have armed support ( as compared with a badge proudly proclaiming THIS school is unprotected) not sure what the detectors would accomplish.

    How about a badge proudly warning: THIS school has Trained Marshall’s on site who MAY be armed.

    I don't know if you've noticed. But the people that do this shit are not mentally there. They don't give a shit what any sign says.
    I'll say this one more time: It's not likely to prevent shootings, but is very likely to limit the damage and save lives. If you don't get it by now, you never will.
    Just like better background checks and limiting magazine size would reduce the number of deaths.
  • TurdBomber
    TurdBomber Member Posts: 20,051 Standard Supporter

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    If it isn't slavery, it's Hitler. If it isn't Hitler, it's slavery.
    If it isn't racism, it's Naziism. If it isn't Naziism, it's racism.
    If it isn't the slave owner, it's the institution of slavery. If it isn't the institution of slavery, it's the slave-owner.

    What about the 3000 black slave owners in the U.S.? Were they honorable men caught up in a sinister institution? Or were they just assholes, like the white slave owners?
  • GrundleStiltzkin
    GrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,516 Standard Supporter

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    *amended
  • TurdBomber
    TurdBomber Member Posts: 20,051 Standard Supporter
    2001400ex said:

    2001400ex said:

    doogie said:

    Seems to me, these attacks are over in a matter of a few minutes. Without armed support in the schools themselves, or the threat a school “ could” have armed support ( as compared with a badge proudly proclaiming THIS school is unprotected) not sure what the detectors would accomplish.

    How about a badge proudly warning: THIS school has Trained Marshall’s on site who MAY be armed.

    I don't know if you've noticed. But the people that do this shit are not mentally there. They don't give a shit what any sign says.
    I'll say this one more time: It's not likely to prevent shootings, but is very likely to limit the damage and save lives. If you don't get it by now, you never will.
    Just like better background checks and limiting magazine size would reduce the number of deaths.
    Perhaps you missed my endorsement of both before your knee jerked.
  • TurdBomber
    TurdBomber Member Posts: 20,051 Standard Supporter

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?

    Oh, you meant something completely different. My bad.
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,855

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    A few quotes from the brightest men.

    "A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined..."
    - George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
    - Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    "On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    "I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence ... I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    "To disarm the people...[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
    - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    You know what the Founding Father's excelled at? Making compromises - that's what! The entire document is one big long set of compromises.

    We? don't want to take away all yer Guns. We? want the militia to be well regulated. At the moment, it is not. This 2nd amendment absolutism is going to doom your rights for generations to come if no compromise is made.
    I guess you missed the Heller decision by the supreme court?
    Time's change and courts evolve. The SCOTUS also ruled in the 1930's that the Feds could tax Thompson Sub Machine Guns out of existence.
    The Heller decision was a few years ago. The constitution is not to be reinterpreted. It's meant as it's written. It is not an evolving doctrine.
    So if I like my slaves, I can keep them?
    If it isn't slavery, it's Hitler. If it isn't Hitler, it's slavery.
    If it isn't racism, it's Naziism. If it isn't Naziism, it's racism.
    If it isn't the slave owner, it's the institution of slavery. If it isn't the institution of slavery, it's the slave-owner.

    What about the 3000 black slave owners in the U.S.? Were they honorable men caught up in a sinister institution?
    Or were they just assholes, like the white slave owners?
    Most of them "owned" a husband, wife or child because the only way to get them out of slavery was to purchase them. They weren't actually enslaving their people by purchasing them, they were rescuing them.

    But yeah, there were some Fast Strategy bruthas who owned other FSB's. Those guys were assholes.