Saban is an interesting study

RaceBannon

1st year - 6-5-1 bowl loss
2nd year - 6-6 bowl loss
3rd year - 7-5 blow out bowl loss (to Lambo)
19-16-1
School had been 16-18 the previous three years

Changes schools
1st year - 8-4 bowl win but lost to UAB and got plungered by Florida
2nd year - 10-3 league title, BCS bowl win. First league title for school in 15 years
3rd year - 8-5, bowl loss
4th year - 12-1 league title, BCS Championship win

At this point - 67-29-1 with two league titles and a natty

Goes to NFL, back to third school
1st year - 6-6
2nd year - 12-1 lost cash game to eventual national champ
3rd year - 12-0 national title
4th year - 10-3 bowl win
5th year - One loss, wins national title
6th year - one loss, wins national title
76-13


Picking him for LSU from Michigan State was a very Emmert move. Saban appeared to define mediocre. Except he wasn't. We would not be thrilled at all if our next coach was 19-16. That's not much better than Sark after three years, and was a negligible improvement on his predecessor.

If doogs want to make Sark look good they should compare him to Saban instead of trashing James. Saban was 10-3 his 5th year, his best record, except he won the SEC. While he never beat Oregon and Stanford, he was a slow starter to his career.

Sark went 9-4 last year and is 10-3 this year. Hypothetically

CuntWaffle

Pete Carroll was kind of similar. His first stints in the NFL weren't great (although not nearly as bad as people make it out to be).

He got to USC and pretty much raped college football for 7 seasons after going 6-6 in his first season.

Came back to the NFL and has gone 7-9, 7-9 (disappointing season but he was still in the process of gutting the team and getting his guys in there), 11-5 (Should have at least made it to NFC Championship), and 8-1 this year with a severely banged up team and is one of the favorites for the Super Bowl this year.

topdawgnc

Culture matters.

MikeDamone

Sounds like emmert wanted a medicore hire, but got Saban by mistake.

RaceBannon

topdawgnc said:

Culture matters.

Yes it does. Saban went to more serious schools after more serious school and his record improved with the expectation.

HoustonHusky

Actually think you are on to something, and I kinda wonder how important it was for him to change jobs. I don't think Saban would have ever been the same coach had he stayed at MSU the entire time...I do think he learned a boatload about how to coach and probably made some important changes on how he did his job when he switched that he could not have done had he stayed at MSU. Its hard after 4 years to say 'well, after stepping back from the situation I realized 30% of what we are doing is wrong and its all changing and you have to change with it, and I'm firing 5 of my assistants 'cause I realize I need a different type of coach in place for what I'm doing'.

Not sure if changing jobs would really help Sark though...he doesn't strike me as an analytical, self-assessing type that is developing an equivalent to Saban's "Process". Thinking about it makes me even more amazed at how DJ made the changes he made in the late 80s...

CuntWaffle

HoustonHusky said:

Actually think you are on to something, and I kinda wonder how important it was for him to change jobs. I don't think Saban would have ever been the same coach had he stayed at MSU the entire time...I do think he learned a boatload about how to coach and probably made some important changes on how he did his job when he switched that he could not have done had he stayed at MSU. Its hard after 4 years to say 'well, after stepping back from the situation I realized 30% of what we are doing is wrong and its all changing and you have to change with it, and I'm firing 5 of my assistants 'cause I realize I need a different type of coach in place for what I'm doing'.

Not sure if changing jobs would really help Sark though...he doesn't strike me as an analytical, self-assessing type that has developed an equivalent to Saban's "Process". Thinking about it makes me even more amazed at how DJ made the changes he made in the late 80s...

I think until Sark ditches his whole friend instead of coach attitude he will never surpass mediocrity.

HoustonHusky

CuntWaffle said:

I think until Sark ditches his whole friend instead of coach attitude he will never surpass mediocrity.

Agree completely, but that should be step 0.1 on the 12 step process in going from an OC to a HC.

HeretoBeatmyChest

SRS rankings showed Michigan St in the 3 years prior to Saban as 41-30-26. Saban went 28-29-20-29-10. So the advanced metrics showed a breakthrough in year 3 which was superior to all of the last 3 years before Saban. In year 4, MSU beat the #10 team early in the season and the #1 team late in the season and had 3 last minute losses including 2 by 1 point. SRS takes that into account, but had they won 2/3 then their SRS ranking would probably be closer to 20 than 30. Then in year 5 they finished ranked #7 and #10 in SRS.

Prior to Sark, UW was 51-51-109. Since, 51-42-57-49 and now 21.

The key distinction is it took Sark 5 years to field a team that was better than all of the previous 3 years. Saban did it in his 3rd year and had continued progress in year 4 (upsets, very close losses) and 5. And Sark's year 5 is not going to finish any higher than around 20, while Saban was 9-2 and top 10.

In addition, Saban had far more experience prior to this job. He was a DC in the NFL for several years, was a head coach and had 15 years or so of other experience.

Furthermore, its hard to measure recruiting back then but I doubt Michigan St had top 25 classes like Sark has had.

RoadDawg55

LSU hired Saban after his fifth year at MSU when he went 9-2. They didn't hire a 19-16 coach. His SEC title was in his 7th year coaching (2nd at LSU).

The point still stands. At 34-24-1, Saban was not a home run hire by LSU, although I do remember him being touted as a good coach at Michigan State.

[Deleted User]

Saban was also 9-2 at Toledo and an NFL DC as well. He was snatched away after a good year five.

I do think Emmert lucked out with that hire. I've always said that.

RaceBannon

Well yeah but....still

My point was that who the fuck knows how to hire a coach. I suspect our next coach won't be a home run until he is. I have no confidence in pool boy though. I suspect Emmert had help at LSU.

The main thing is to keep firing the shitty ones

topdawgnc

I ask ...

Does Washington want to win?

TierbsHsotBoobs

RaceBannon said:

Well yeah but....still

My point was that who the fuck knows how to hire a coach. I suspect our next coach won't be a home run until he is. I have no confidence in pool boy though. I suspect Emmert had help at LSU.

The main thing is to keep firing the shitty ones

End of discussion.

HeretoBeatmyChest

RaceBannon said:

Well yeah but....still

My point was that who the fuck knows how to hire a coach. I suspect our next coach won't be a home run until he is. I have no confidence in pool boy though. I suspect Emmert had help at LSU.

The main thing is to keep firing the shitty ones who don't compete for championships

Meek

Emmert isn't involved in the decision to hire the coach.... Tequilla said so.

DerekJohnson

Yes and no... Has anyone been surprised by Brian Kelly's success at Notre Dame? Have we been surprised by Mora's success at UCLA? Have we been surprised by Sark's muddling mediocrity at Washington? Some things are fairly predictable.

Mosster47

Saban even beat Oregon at Michigan State but suffered a horrific plungering the next year. Sark will never do that.

DugtheDoog

Mosster47 said:

Saban even beat Oregon at Michigan State but suffered a horrific plungering the next year. Sark will never do that.

Home or away, Sark just goes for the plungering