1.) Washington can develop players, but A&M can't. Which is to say A&M just rolls the best athlete out on the field. This is why Martin can suck there but be good here, so we should want him.
2.) We want Martin with two years of "development" time remaining over some 18 year old MWC kid with five years to develop.
I'm now going to hold my breath until one of you guys figures out why these two arguments are logically contradictory.
Ah, fuck it, I don't want to die: If Martin is so physically talented that we should want him over the "MWC guy," why is he third on the depth (sounds like it was going to get worse with the younger guys coming in, too) on a team that doesn't develop and just rolls out the most talented guy at each position?
And if Washington's relative development prowess is their advantage, why take a guy who has little time left to develop vs. a guy with five years of potential?
Including the '21 class, there are eight scholarship OLB and nine ILB (some with flexibility) on the roster. In '22 the OLB will drop by at least two, but add whoever they bring in that class. Those numbers are juuuust fine. I'll take a '22 OLB with five years to play over a '22 senior who hasn't done shit.
And I don't mind at all giving that scholarship to a walk-on. Typically, walk-ons get scholarships when they earn it on the field. Eleven times out of ten, I take Ulofoshio or Bowman or the starting field goal kicker over A&M's third string junior.
This kind of TBS ball-gargling has 8-5 written all over it. Earn it on the fucking field. This guy didn't; an under-the-radar '22 kid (if that's what it would end up being) at least might.
First of all, to clarify, Martin should have three years of eligibility left given the covid freebie.
Also your take here is just dumb.
1) No one is making this assumption. No one is making any assumptions. What has been borne out time and time again is that some players simply excel with a change of scenery. Amandre Williams and Bryce Sterk are actually good examples of that as they went on and had good careers at MSU. Or look at Milo Eifler if you want a P5 example. There's plenty of precedent of high-ceiling players sucking at their first school and going on to find success elsewhere.
2) We don't want Martin "over" any one player. Your "I take Ulofoshio/Bowman over Martin" example is exceedingly stupid since that's not the tradeoff. I'd also take Jeremiah Martin over Draco Bynum. Which is an equally stupid comparison because it's also not the tradeoff. What matters is that we have the room so fucking get him in. Worry about the numbers later. Not to mention that the numbers appear to be even less of a concern in Jimmy Lake's program since we seemingly don't ever hit the 85 limit anyways without gifting a scholarship to a walk-on.
To answer both of your points, I was responding directly to posts in this thread. Don't make me go back and quote. Somebody said A&M sucks at development, somebody else said the scholarship will just go to a walk-on (with a negative connotation), many pointed to it being good for "depth" in a position room with eight scholarship players for two spots on the field.
Martin has three years to play two. He has two years of eligibility left. He played in '18, '19, and the '20 freebie. Didn't do shit. Balls being gargled because he was a BDTW.com legend. You'd take him over Draco Bynum even though they have an identical resume? Interesting.
There are open scholarships now, but there won't be the next two years if you want anywhere near full classes. The COVID freebie is going to fuck every team in the country with the 85 man limit. Bringing in a depth player now at a pretty stocked position is a horrible tradeoff for future class size.
Nobody is gargling his balls. Your entire argument is built around that and the assumption that taking Martin = not taking someone else. Not even the case at all. Not in the portal era. He's coming to UW to try out. If he's good enough he'll keep a spot.
You cannot revoke a scholarship in the P12. He's here for two years if he wants, like it or not. So, yes, for two years, he's taking a spot. That's one player you could theoretically take in the '22 or '23 class (or, hell, '21) and develop into being a starter down the road.
Which would feel outrageous except we weren't really planning on recruiting anymore anyway.
If by that you mean Washington does not plan on ever recruiting another player again forever... Well, the news out of the program lately suggests you're onto something, so this is the first legitimate reason to bring this guy in that I've read.
Interview from August. I really like this kid after listening to this.
If anyone watched the HBO Hard Knocks when Jimbo Fisher was at Florida State you know that he's a grade A asshole. That sort of coaching works for a lot of kids but it doesn't surprise me from listening to that an interview that a kid like Martin is probably sick of being dressed down and degraded as a form of motivation.
His physical tools are rare and I'm confident that Malloe will get way more out of him than the coaches on the A&M staff.
At the very least, with Bowman, Latu and ZTF leaving after this year we need the depth. Good get.
Interview from August. I really like this kid after listening to this.
If anyone watched the HBO Hard Knocks when Jimbo Fisher was at Florida State you know that he's a grade A asshole. That sort of coaching works for a lot of kids but it doesn't surprise me from listening to that an interview that a kid like Martin is probably sick of being dressed down and degraded as a form of motivation.
His physical tools are rare and I'm confident that Malloe will get way more out of him than the coaches on the A&M staff.
At the very least, with Bowman, Latu and ZTF leaving after this year we need the depth. Good get.
Interview from August. I really like this kid after listening to this.
If anyone watched the HBO Hard Knocks when Jimbo Fisher was at Florida State you know that he's a grade A asshole. That sort of coaching works for a lot of kids but it doesn't surprise me from listening to that an interview that a kid like Martin is probably sick of being dressed down and degraded as a form of motivation.
His physical tools are rare and I'm confident that Malloe will get way more out of him than the coaches on the A&M staff.
At the very least, with Bowman, Latu and ZTF leaving after this year we need the depth. Good get.
Latu hasn’t even had a 1 year of production? Why do you assume he’s going to leave? I don’t understand your thought process there
Agreed. One of Latu or ZTF is going to leave after next season. Bowman is definitely out. Between those three and Smalls, I just don't think there are going to be enough big play opportunities to pass around for two to leave early. If UW loses another OLB besides Bowman and one of ZTF or Latu, it's going to be due to a retirement or portal.
Interview from August. I really like this kid after listening to this.
If anyone watched the HBO Hard Knocks when Jimbo Fisher was at Florida State you know that he's a grade A asshole. That sort of coaching works for a lot of kids but it doesn't surprise me from listening to that an interview that a kid like Martin is probably sick of being dressed down and degraded as a form of motivation.
His physical tools are rare and I'm confident that Malloe will get way more out of him than the coaches on the A&M staff.
At the very least, with Bowman, Latu and ZTF leaving after this year we need the depth. Good get.
Played a ton as a true freshman and was the BUCK who the coaches were talking about going into fall camp before he got hurt. Maybe ZTF takes his snaps this year but, going into last year, the buzz what that he was the best player on the defense.
Interview from August. I really like this kid after listening to this.
If anyone watched the HBO Hard Knocks when Jimbo Fisher was at Florida State you know that he's a grade A asshole. That sort of coaching works for a lot of kids but it doesn't surprise me from listening to that an interview that a kid like Martin is probably sick of being dressed down and degraded as a form of motivation.
His physical tools are rare and I'm confident that Malloe will get way more out of him than the coaches on the A&M staff.
At the very least, with Bowman, Latu and ZTF leaving after this year we need the depth. Good get.
Played a ton as a true freshman and was the BUCK who the coaches were talking about going into fall camp before he got hurt. Maybe ZTF takes his snaps this year but, going into last year, the buzz what that he was the best player on the defense.
No shit. He’s the best DL on our team. He’s still going to need more than 1 year of production
Yes, most highly rated kids that flame out and move to a lesser program end up doing nothing.
No, there is no risk laid for the potential, albeit unlikely, reward. We have a bajillion open spots.
Maybe, what are all these facts about Martin at A&M? Do we have an actual Aggie or did 1to329832 just read an sbnation article and declare himself expert?
Yes, most highly rated kids that flame out and move to a lesser program end up doing nothing.
No, there is no risk laid for the potential, albeit unlikely, reward. We have a bajillion open spots.
Maybe, what are all these facts about Martin at A&M? Do we have an actual Aggie or did 1to329832 just read an sbnation article and declare himself expert?
Player participation and statistics are easy to find. I read an article somewhere (not sbnation, but who cares) about him entering the transfer portal that explained why, citing the lack of playing time and players moving around him cited above.
Yes, most highly rated kids that flame out and move to a lesser program end up doing nothing.
No, there is no risk laid for the potential, albeit unlikely, reward. We have a bajillion open spots.
Maybe, what are all these facts about Martin at A&M? Do we have an actual Aggie or did 1to329832 just read an sbnation article and declare himself expert?
Player participation and statistics are easy to find. I read an article somewhere (not sbnation, but who cares) about him entering the transfer portal that explained why, citing the lack of playing time and players moving around him cited above.
And knowing the quality of analysis from UW beat writers and fan bloggers d’ya think we should apply the same skepticism to articles analyzing A&M’s depth chart?
Yes, most highly rated kids that flame out and move to a lesser program end up doing nothing.
No, there is no risk laid for the potential, albeit unlikely, reward. We have a bajillion open spots.
Maybe, what are all these facts about Martin at A&M? Do we have an actual Aggie or did 1to329832 just read an sbnation article and declare himself expert?
Player participation and statistics are easy to find. I read an article somewhere (not sbnation, but who cares) about him entering the transfer portal that explained why, citing the lack of playing time and players moving around him cited above.
From 247
"However, despite good film and a quality athletic pedigree, Martin didn't have much of an impact in his first year on campus even in games where he sa quite a few snaps. He had never been in a dedicated weight program when he arrived in College Station and he had a lean body, even at a listed 244 pounds at that time.
Martin turned out to be mostly is a straight line guy who uses his length as opposed to any quick twitch capabilities or bend to make plays. He spent last season behind Johnson and Clemons (both of whom are returning for the 2021 season). In addition, he'll had multiple freshman from the 2020 recruiting class such as Fadil Diggs, Donell Harris, and Braedon Mowry coming at him from the bottom up.
Martin appeared in 11 games as a freshman in 2018, primarily on special teams, but also popped in as a backup for Landis Durham. Despite the extraordinary numbers that he put up during his senior season in high school as a pass rusher, he was used some as a drop player in the hybrid edge position that Mike Elko's defense employed. Despite the departure of Durham, Martin didn't play any much more in 2019 than he did in 2018 as Tyree Johnson got the nod as the first team edge player in the pre season. Martin appeared in ten games and was slightly more productive, recording three tackles for loss including one in the bowl game win over Oklahoma State. However, even when Johnson missed time at the edge spot due to injury, the Aggies used other personnel to fill in for him, moving Micheal Clemons there from the opposite side and then starting Aaron Hansford in a three backer alignment versus LSU."
Yes, most highly rated kids that flame out and move to a lesser program end up doing nothing.
No, there is no risk laid for the potential, albeit unlikely, reward. We have a bajillion open spots.
Maybe, what are all these facts about Martin at A&M? Do we have an actual Aggie or did 1to329832 just read an sbnation article and declare himself expert?
Player participation and statistics are easy to find. I read an article somewhere (not sbnation, but who cares) about him entering the transfer portal that explained why, citing the lack of playing time and players moving around him cited above.
And knowing the quality of analysis from UW beat writers and fan bloggers d’ya think we should apply the same skepticism to articles analyzing A&M’s depth chart?
There are opinions and then there are verifiable facts. Guy above him on the depth chart got hurt, instead of him playing, other guy got moved over. The trustworthiness of the source is irrelevant. The stats for participation and tackles aren't. The depth charts from 2018, 2019, and 2020 confirm the reporting:
2019 depth chart: DE1 1. Tyree Johnson - So 2. Jeremiah Martin - So
DE2 1. Michael Clemons - Jr 2. DeMarvin Leal - Fr
When Johnson got hurt before the LSU game that year, instead of bumping Martin up, they moved Clemons over and moved the #2 MLB up to play an extra linebacker.
2020 depth chart: DE1 1. Tyree Johnson - Jr DeMarvin Leal - So 2. Jeremiah Martin - Jr
DE2 1. Michael Clemons - Gr 2. DeMarvin Leal - So
So in three years, he went from being third string, #4 DE, #4 DE, transfer.
Full stop: If this isn't a guy whose name you know and how UW previously recruited, are you excited to take a transfer from some other school who is a.) a fourth year junior and b.) has never been better than #4 on the team at his position?
Yes, most highly rated kids that flame out and move to a lesser program end up doing nothing.
No, there is no risk laid for the potential, albeit unlikely, reward. We have a bajillion open spots.
Maybe, what are all these facts about Martin at A&M? Do we have an actual Aggie or did 1to329832 just read an sbnation article and declare himself expert?
Player participation and statistics are easy to find. I read an article somewhere (not sbnation, but who cares) about him entering the transfer portal that explained why, citing the lack of playing time and players moving around him cited above.
And knowing the quality of analysis from UW beat writers and fan bloggers d’ya think we should apply the same skepticism to articles analyzing A&M’s depth chart?
There are opinions and then there are verifiable facts. Guy above him on the depth chart got hurt, instead of him playing, other guy got moved over. The trustworthiness of the source is irrelevant. The stats for participation and tackles aren't. The depth charts from 2018, 2019, and 2020 confirm the reporting:
2019 depth chart: DE1 1. Tyree Johnson - So 2. Jeremiah Martin - So
DE2 1. Michael Clemons - Jr 2. DeMarvin Leal - Fr
When Johnson got hurt before the LSU game that year, instead of bumping Martin up, they moved Clemons over and moved the #2 MLB up to play an extra linebacker.
2020 depth chart: DE1 1. Tyree Johnson - Jr DeMarvin Leal - So 2. Jeremiah Martin - Jr
DE2 1. Michael Clemons - Gr 2. DeMarvin Leal - So
So in three years, he went from being third string, #4 DE, #4 DE, transfer.
Full stop: If this isn't a guy whose name you know and how UW previously recruited, are you excited to take a transfer from some other school who is a.) a fourth year junior and b.) has never been better than #4 on the team at his position?
Am I taking crazy pills?
Excited? No. Nobody is but you and roadie can keep pretending so if you need it to justify your contrary position.
It just doesn't fucking matter. It can't hurt. It could help. He's a big guy who can run. Rosters aren't static. What's the issue?
That 247 scouting report of Martin sounds a lot like Benning to be honest. Strong guy with good athleticism but isn't that quick-twitch type of pass rusher. I'm fine with that. Benning didn't do a ton in terms of rushing the passer but we was a solid run defender and you could even put him in space a little bit to defend the pass. Martin will be a great guy to have at BUCK when we need to go heavy against bigger teams.
That 247 scouting report of Martin sounds a lot like Benning to be honest. Strong guy with good athleticism but isn't that quick-twitch type of pass rusher. I'm fine with that. Benning didn't do a ton in terms of rushing the passer but we was a solid run defender and you could even put him in space a little bit to defend the pass. Martin will be a great guy to have at BUCK when we need to go heavy against bigger teams.
Good point about Potoae. He was huge against the run and along with Bowman have been the only OLBs since Joe Mathis capable of holding the edge. *We need big OLBs in the rotation. Smalls and ZTF (who is big but clueless vs the run) are pass rush specialists. Latu hasn't been healthy yet. Who else is there when Bowman is hurt or gone?
I’m hearing that Kyler Murray sucks because he got benched at A&M!
As a junior? And was he third string and looking like dropping further?
This isn't Kyler Murray, this is Tate Martell.
Edit: Also, Murray didn't get benched. It was the opposite. As a true freshman, he beat out the starter late in the season to finish the season out as the starter. He posted pretty good numbers in three starts as a true freshman. He did shit on the fucking field.
That 247 scouting report of Martin sounds a lot like Benning to be honest. Strong guy with good athleticism but isn't that quick-twitch type of pass rusher. I'm fine with that. Benning didn't do a ton in terms of rushing the passer but we was a solid run defender and you could even put him in space a little bit to defend the pass. Martin will be a great guy to have at BUCK when we need to go heavy against bigger teams.
Good point about Potoae. He was huge against the run and along with Bowman have been the only OLBs since Joe Mathis capable of holding the edge. *We need big OLBs in the rotation. Smalls and ZTF (who is big but clueless vs the run) are pass rush specialists. Latu hasn't been healthy yet. Who else is there when Bowman is hurt or gone?
ZTF holding the edge is just a matter of playing time. Dude needs more reps he will get it. Kid already knows how to pass rush which is far more desired quality
Comments
If anyone watched the HBO Hard Knocks when Jimbo Fisher was at Florida State you know that he's a grade A asshole. That sort of coaching works for a lot of kids but it doesn't surprise me from listening to that an interview that a kid like Martin is probably sick of being dressed down and degraded as a form of motivation.
His physical tools are rare and I'm confident that Malloe will get way more out of him than the coaches on the A&M staff.
At the very least, with Bowman, Latu and ZTF leaving after this year we need the depth. Good get.
Played a ton as a true freshman and was the BUCK who the coaches were talking about going into fall camp before he got hurt. Maybe ZTF takes his snaps this year but, going into last year, the buzz what that he was the best player on the defense.
No, there is no risk laid for the potential, albeit unlikely, reward. We have a bajillion open spots.
Maybe, what are all these facts about Martin at A&M? Do we have an actual Aggie or did 1to329832 just read an sbnation article and declare himself expert?
"However, despite good film and a quality athletic pedigree, Martin didn't have much of an impact in his first year on campus even in games where he sa quite a few snaps. He had never been in a dedicated weight program when he arrived in College Station and he had a lean body, even at a listed 244 pounds at that time.
Martin turned out to be mostly is a straight line guy who uses his length as opposed to any quick twitch capabilities or bend to make plays. He spent last season behind Johnson and Clemons (both of whom are returning for the 2021 season). In addition, he'll had multiple freshman from the 2020 recruiting class such as Fadil Diggs, Donell Harris, and Braedon Mowry coming at him from the bottom up.
Martin appeared in 11 games as a freshman in 2018, primarily on special teams, but also popped in as a backup for Landis Durham. Despite the extraordinary numbers that he put up during his senior season in high school as a pass rusher, he was used some as a drop player in the hybrid edge position that Mike Elko's defense employed. Despite the departure of Durham, Martin didn't play any much more in 2019 than he did in 2018 as Tyree Johnson got the nod as the first team edge player in the pre season. Martin appeared in ten games and was slightly more productive, recording three tackles for loss including one in the bowl game win over Oklahoma State. However, even when Johnson missed time at the edge spot due to injury, the Aggies used other personnel to fill in for him, moving Micheal Clemons there from the opposite side and then starting Aaron Hansford in a three backer alignment versus LSU."
2018 depth chart:
DE1
1. Landis Durham - Sr
2. Tyree Johson - Fr-Rs
DE2
1. Kingsly Keke - Sr
2. Bobby Brown - Fr
2019 depth chart:
DE1
1. Tyree Johnson - So
2. Jeremiah Martin - So
DE2
1. Michael Clemons - Jr
2. DeMarvin Leal - Fr
When Johnson got hurt before the LSU game that year, instead of bumping Martin up, they moved Clemons over and moved the #2 MLB up to play an extra linebacker.
2020 depth chart:
DE1
1. Tyree Johnson - Jr
DeMarvin Leal - So
2. Jeremiah Martin - Jr
DE2
1. Michael Clemons - Gr
2. DeMarvin Leal - So
So in three years, he went from being third string, #4 DE, #4 DE, transfer.
Full stop: If this isn't a guy whose name you know and how UW previously recruited, are you excited to take a transfer from some other school who is a.) a fourth year junior and b.) has never been better than #4 on the team at his position?
Am I taking crazy pills?
It just doesn't fucking matter. It can't hurt. It could help. He's a big guy who can run. Rosters aren't static. What's the issue?