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Do they actually believe their own lie?

2

Comments

  • RedRocketRedRocket Member Posts: 1,527
    pawz said:

    AZDuck said:

    Couple of things.

    1- lots more than 20. That's just the twenty whose names appear on that poster.

    On a scale between 20 and 786, where do you think that number actually lands. Hence the request for FBI statistics




    2- what's with the morality bait-n-switch? Black people are getting murdered in Chicago. That's a Chicago problem, that's a law-and-order problem. Crime is generally down in the US right now (Chicago excepted).

    This is the point I'm trying to drive home - and the ill intents of a divisive media.



    There's less outrage about crime because it usually isn't being done by agents of the government. Duh. People tend to get more outraged about law-abiding black people getting blown away at traffic stops or suffocated on a Staten Island sidewalk by police than they do about two drug dealers shooting each other in turf wars.

    Shocking, I know.


    Agree.




    But the thing is - who the fuck are you to tell someone what to get pissed about and what not to get pissed about? You want to protest about the murder rate in Chicago? Be my fucking guest. You want to be outraged about Killary's email server? Go for it. That's your right as a citizen.

    Who is deciding morality? Morality is being determined by the purveyor of the news. In my perception, it's being done dishonestly, disingenuously and with an agenda that doesn't serve the best interests of the people.

    The media certainly appears to be serving the interests of those who want to control the people - divide and conquer.

    If this perception is wrong, the floor is yours counselor.


    The media is an extension of its viewership. It's private enterprise (for the most part) and it's going to give it users whatever content generates the most revenue. The current shit state of the media on the right and left is a symptom of a dumbed down populace that can't tell fact from fiction and is mostly looking for ammunition for social media and shit tier message board battles. Confirmation bias is a funny thing. People really hate questioning their belief system.
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

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    I have no idea why people are upset

    Blacks at 13% of the population are responsible for the majority of violent crime in the US. Rethink your over representation.
    w, jw
  • pawzpawz Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 20,936 Founders Club
    RedRocket said:

    pawz said:

    AZDuck said:

    Couple of things.

    1- lots more than 20. That's just the twenty whose names appear on that poster.

    On a scale between 20 and 786, where do you think that number actually lands. Hence the request for FBI statistics




    2- what's with the morality bait-n-switch? Black people are getting murdered in Chicago. That's a Chicago problem, that's a law-and-order problem. Crime is generally down in the US right now (Chicago excepted).

    This is the point I'm trying to drive home - and the ill intents of a divisive media.



    There's less outrage about crime because it usually isn't being done by agents of the government. Duh. People tend to get more outraged about law-abiding black people getting blown away at traffic stops or suffocated on a Staten Island sidewalk by police than they do about two drug dealers shooting each other in turf wars.

    Shocking, I know.


    Agree.




    But the thing is - who the fuck are you to tell someone what to get pissed about and what not to get pissed about? You want to protest about the murder rate in Chicago? Be my fucking guest. You want to be outraged about Killary's email server? Go for it. That's your right as a citizen.

    Who is deciding morality? Morality is being determined by the purveyor of the news. In my perception, it's being done dishonestly, disingenuously and with an agenda that doesn't serve the best interests of the people.

    The media certainly appears to be serving the interests of those who want to control the people - divide and conquer.

    If this perception is wrong, the floor is yours counselor.


    The media is an extension of its viewership. It's private enterprise (for the most part) and it's going to give it users whatever content generates the most revenue. The current shit state of the media on the right and left is a symptom of a dumbed down populace that can't tell fact from fiction and is mostly looking for ammunition for social media and shit tier message board battles. Confirmation bias is a funny thing. People really hate questioning their belief system.
    In theory this is correct. In my estimation it's become very difficult to ascertain if the tail is wagging the dog or the dog is wagging the tail. I think there is another driver in-play that is meeting both aims - as you suggest and as I suggest.

    Agree on the rest.


    You haven't been around these parts much, but be sure to axe @dnc about confirmation bias. It's been covered.

  • TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    doogie said:

    Fuck off, simpleton. This bored is for functioning Adults and Backthepack

    Why are you here?
  • Pitchfork51Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 26,950
    Until black people stop being a disproportionate number of violent criminals then I'll give a fuck if a disproportionate number are shot.
  • Mosster47Mosster47 Member Posts: 6,246
    Why does someone's personal income matter? Just because they are better at life than you doesn't mean their thoughts or opinions mean less.
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381

    Until black people stop being a disproportionate number of violent criminals then I'll give a fuck if a disproportionate number are shot.

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  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,964 Standard Supporter
    AZDuck said:

    Until black people stop being a disproportionate number of violent criminals then I'll give a fuck if a disproportionate number are shot.

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    Because nothing is more racist than actual statistics.
  • HippopeteamusHippopeteamus Member Posts: 1,958
    edited September 2017
    AZDuck said:

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    I have no idea why people are upset

    Eh...That chart is meaningless when looking at the percentage of population by race. You would need to look at the percentage of police encounters by race. And to draw any real conclusion about that data, you would need to look at the percentage of crimes committed by race. And you would probably have to consider the kinds of crimes committed, how much of the shootings take place in known gang territory. The more likely answer, than what BLM is protesting or Colin Kappernick, is that police are too aggressive, militaristic, and basically are just as likely to shoot every race (not every cop, I am sure there are racists cops, but that data alone would not show a systemic racism problem).

    Edit: Oddly enough, there is a similar statistical problem arises in just looking at the number of violent crimes committed by race. You see white supremacist use those crime number to try and show how black Americans are more violent. Yet those stats are also meaningless unless you consider other factors like rate of single mother hood and poverty. The above chart is sort of similar, but in reverse.
  • Fire_Marshall_BillFire_Marshall_Bill Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 23,898 Founders Club
    No media outrage or coverage beyond Phoenix tv stations and AZ Republic over unarmed white kid who was mowed down on Mesa hotel by jittery vet cop. It does not fit the narrative
  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,964 Standard Supporter
    It's going to be hard to make progress and have productive conversations in today's political climate. Until people stop making shit up that isn't true, such as "only white people can be racist, because they have the power" and other bullshit, nonsense like that inherently racist idea, good people will withdraw from the efforts to bring people together and hope for the best. I'm not going to engage with people who accuse me of being privileged, a white supremacist, a Nazi, or sexist because I don't agree with their narrow-minded political views. Life's just too short to waste time placating delusional people.

    Pile on the Patriarchy, micro-aggressions, the word police, the 100+ pronouns for people who can't decide what gender they are today, and it can't be shocking that people say things that sound racist or just plain indifferent to the plight of the truly needy, the truly oppressed, the true victims of racism, etc. What the fuck can the average person do, black, white, Asian, or other, to help those less fortunate when all they get for their efforts to do the right thing is kicked in the teeth repeatedly while being berated for their skin color, because they had good parents, or because they believe in guns, personal responsibility and small government. Or any other non-orthodox political belief that isn't trending on Facebook or CNN this week.

    By now, the NFL taking a knee is practically meaningless. No, it's not the same as the Black Power salute at the '68 Olympics. That took real courage. The NFL doing what Garfield HS did more than a year ago is not courage. It's just populism and subtle coercion so they can feel like they're doing something about a problem they care about. But what's going to change when people retreat to their ideological corners screaming I'm right, you're wrong, I'm good, you're bad, I'm oppressed, you're privileged, etc? Answer: Not a fucking thing.
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 33,850 Standard Supporter

    AZDuck said:

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    I have no idea why people are upset

    Eh...That chart is meaningless when looking at the percentage of population by race. You would need to look at the percentage of police encounters by race. And to draw any real conclusion about that data, you would need to look at the percentage of crimes committed by race. And you would probably have to consider the kinds of crimes committed, how much of the shootings take place in known gang territory. The more likely answer, than what BLM is protesting or Colin Kappernick, is that police are too aggressive, militaristic, and basically are just as likely to shoot every race (not every cop, I am sure there are racists cops, but that data alone would not show a systemic racism problem).

    Edit: Oddly enough, there is a similar statistical problem arises in just looking at the number of violent crimes committed by race. You see white supremacist use those crime number to try and show how black Americans are more violent. Yet those stats are also meaningless unless you consider other factors like rate of single mother hood and poverty. The above chart is sort of similar, but in reverse.
    Single motherhood? Poverty? The government pays more if you're a single mother that is what destroyed the black family. Poverty? Poverty shouldn't be
    AZDuck said:

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    I have no idea why people are upset

    Grabbed this from a friend I have not confirmed the numbers.

    The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 today, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend. Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide-victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 “black bodies,” in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation’s population. The increase in black homicide deaths last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.
    Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks. In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to the Washington Post. The Post categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest. Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer. Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers—committed vastly and disproportionately by black males. Among all homicide suspects whose race was known, white killers of blacks numbered only 243.
    Violent crime has now risen by a significant amount for two consecutive years. The total number of violent crimes rose 4.1 percent in 2016, and estimated homicides rose 8.6 percent. In 2015, violent crime rose by nearly 4 percent and estimated homicides by nearly 11 percent. The last time violence rose two years in a row was 2005–06. The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect. Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened. Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 am, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it. Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.
    Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    holy wall of text batman

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  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,731
    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

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    I have no idea why people are upset

    Eh...That chart is meaningless when looking at the percentage of population by race. You would need to look at the percentage of police encounters by race. And to draw any real conclusion about that data, you would need to look at the percentage of crimes committed by race. And you would probably have to consider the kinds of crimes committed, how much of the shootings take place in known gang territory. The more likely answer, than what BLM is protesting or Colin Kappernick, is that police are too aggressive, militaristic, and basically are just as likely to shoot every race (not every cop, I am sure there are racists cops, but that data alone would not show a systemic racism problem).

    Edit: Oddly enough, there is a similar statistical problem arises in just looking at the number of violent crimes committed by race. You see white supremacist use those crime number to try and show how black Americans are more violent. Yet those stats are also meaningless unless you consider other factors like rate of single mother hood and poverty. The above chart is sort of similar, but in reverse.
    Single motherhood? Poverty? The government pays more if you're a single mother that is what destroyed the black family. Poverty? Poverty shouldn't be
    AZDuck said:

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    I have no idea why people are upset

    Grabbed this from a friend I have not confirmed the numbers.

    The FBI released its official crime tally for 2016 today, and the data flies in the face of the rhetoric that professional athletes rehearsed in revived Black Lives Matter protests over the weekend. Nearly 900 additional blacks were killed in 2016 compared with 2015, bringing the black homicide-victim total to 7,881. Those 7,881 “black bodies,” in the parlance of Ta-Nehisi Coates, are 1,305 more than the number of white victims (which in this case includes most Hispanics) for the same period, though blacks are only 13 percent of the nation’s population. The increase in black homicide deaths last year comes on top of a previous 900-victim increase between 2014 and 2015.
    Who is killing these black victims? Not whites, and not the police, but other blacks. In 2016, the police fatally shot 233 blacks, the vast majority armed and dangerous, according to the Washington Post. The Post categorized only 16 black male victims of police shootings as “unarmed.” That classification masks assaults against officers and violent resistance to arrest. Contrary to the Black Lives Matter narrative, the police have much more to fear from black males than black males have to fear from the police. In 2015, a police officer was 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male was to be killed by a police officer. Black males have made up 42 percent of all cop-killers over the last decade, though they are only 6 percent of the population. That 18.5 ratio undoubtedly worsened in 2016, in light of the 53 percent increase in gun murders of officers—committed vastly and disproportionately by black males. Among all homicide suspects whose race was known, white killers of blacks numbered only 243.
    Violent crime has now risen by a significant amount for two consecutive years. The total number of violent crimes rose 4.1 percent in 2016, and estimated homicides rose 8.6 percent. In 2015, violent crime rose by nearly 4 percent and estimated homicides by nearly 11 percent. The last time violence rose two years in a row was 2005–06. The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect. Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened. Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 am, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it. Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.
    Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebutting the charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.
    Holy shit my dad just posted this same shit on Facebook. OLD RICH WHITE PEOPLE, STOp.

    They aren't protesting black on black crime or white on black, they're specifically protesting crimes by cops against black people, which of course this article (and it's agenda) conveniently leave out.

    I'm fine with people disagreeing with how they protest. It makes me a little uncomfortable.

    You're ignorant as hell if you are trying to argue with what they are protesting.
  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072
    No, it's an out of control clusterfuck. All we see are rich black men on their knees submitting

    Every interview yields a different message.

    Not a strong look
  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,731
    doogie said:

    No, it's an out of control clusterfuck. All we see are rich black men on their knees submitting

    Every interview yields a different message.

    Not a strong look

    You seem to be obsessed with the fact that they have money.

    And let's stop pretending that you're listening to anything any of them have to say.
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    Shut up and pick mah cotton, darkie
  • doogiedoogie Member Posts: 15,072
    edited September 2017
    Not one team has a coherent message not one single interviewee matches a second interview e regarding what they're supposedly protesting.

    YouTube is filled with conflicting videos can you find three videos that match of three NFL players that represent their entire team?

    That's exactly what I thought
  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    doogie said:

    sure.

    Imechukua hii kutoka kwa rafiki sijawahakikishia idadi.

    FBI ilitoa uhalifu wake rasmi kwa 2016 leo, na data inapita kwa uso wa rhetoric kwamba wanariadha wa kitaaluma walielezea katika maandamano ya kufufuka ya Black Lives Matter mwishoni mwa wiki. Waandishi wa karibu zaidi ya 900 waliuawa mwaka 2016 ikilinganishwa na 2015, na kuleta jumla ya wasio na mauaji ya wauaji 7881. Wale 7,881 "miili nyeusi," katika mshikamano wa Ta-Neisi Coates, ni zaidi ya 1,305 zaidi ya idadi ya waathirika wa rangi nyeupe (ambayo kwa sasa inajumuisha wengi Hispanics) kwa kipindi hicho, ingawa wazungu ni asilimia 13 tu ya idadi ya taifa. Ongezeko la vifo vya nyeusi vya kuuawa mwaka jana linakuja juu ya ongezeko la waathirika 900 kati ya 2014 na 2015.
    Nani anawaua waathirikawa mweusi? Sio wazungu, na sio polisi, lakini wengine weusi. Mnamo mwaka wa 2016, polisi walipiga risasi nyeusi 233, wengi wenye silaha na hatari, kulingana na Washington Post. Machapisho yaliyoandikwa baada ya machafuko ya watuhumiwa 16 wa wavulana wa rangi ya polisi walikuwa "wasio na silaha." Uainishaji huo unashambulia maafisa dhidi ya maafisa na upinzani wa ukatili kukamatwa. Kinyume na hadithi ya Maisha ya Njaa, polisi wana zaidi ya hofu kutoka kwa wanaume mweusi kuliko wanaume mweusi wanaogopa kutoka kwa polisi. Mwaka 2015, afisa wa polisi alikuwa na uwezekano wa kuuawa mara 18.5 na mwanamume mweusi kuliko mwanamume mweusi aliyepigana na silaha alipaswa kuuawa na afisa wa polisi. Wanaume wa rangi wamefanya asilimia 42 ya wauaji wote wa polisi katika miaka kumi iliyopita, ingawa ni asilimia 6 tu ya idadi ya watu. Hiyo uwiano wa 18.5 bila shaka ni mbaya zaidi mwaka 2016, kutokana na ongezeko la asilimia 53 ya mauaji ya maafisa wa maafisa-walifanya kwa kiasi kikubwa na kwa kiasi kikubwa na wanaume mweusi. Miongoni mwa watuhumiwa wote wa mauaji ambao mbio yao ilikuwa inayojulikana, wauaji nyeupe wa weusi walihesabu 243 tu.
    Uhalifu wa ukatili umeongezeka kwa kiasi kikubwa kwa miaka miwili mfululizo. Idadi ya uhalifu wa kiharusi iliongezeka asilimia 4.1 mwaka 2016, na makadirio ya kuuawa yaliongezeka asilimia 8.6. Mnamo mwaka 2015, uhalifu wa vurugu uliongezeka kwa karibu asilimia 4 na makadirio ya kuuawa kwa karibu asilimia 11. Wakati wa mwisho wa vurugu uliongezeka kwa miaka miwili mfululizo ulikuwa 2005-06. Sababu ya ongezeko la sasa ni yale niliyoiita Ferguson Effect. Cops ni kuunga mkono uendeshaji wa polisi katika vitongoji vya uhalifu wa juu, na wahalifu wanajitokeza. Baada ya kuambiwa bila kudumu na wanasiasa, waandishi wa habari, na wanaharakati wa Black Lives Matter kwamba wao ni kubwa kwa kupata nje ya magari yao na kuhoji mtu kupoteza kona inayojulikana ya madawa ya kulevya saa 2 asubuhi, maafisa wengi badala yake wanaendesha gari. Hatua hizo ni busara; askari hawapaswi kuwafanya. Na wakati wajumbe wa kisiasa wanapotosha polisi kwa polisi hiyo ya ufanisi, hatupaswi kushangaa wakati wapo kupata ujumbe na kufanya kidogo. Asilimia sabini na mbili ya maofisa wa taifa wanasema kuwa wao na wenzake sasa hawana nia ya kuacha na kuhoji watu wasiwasi, kulingana na uchaguzi wa Pew Utafiti uliotolewa Januari. Sababu ni hali ya hewa ya kupambana na wapiganaji inayoendelea.
    Masomo manne yalitolewa mwaka 2016 peke yake akiwa na uamuzi wa kuwa risasi ya polisi ni ya kibinafsi. Ikiwa kuna ubaguzi katika kupigwa kwa polisi, inafanya kazi kwa wapenzi na wazungu. Ukweli huo hauwazuia madhehebu inayoendelea ya polisi-ikiwa ni pamoja na, sasa, na wanariadha wengi wasiojua wa nchi. Njia hiyo itaonekana, kama ilivyo, katika mji wa ndani, na maelfu ya watu wanaoishi sheria ambao hutaka ulinzi zaidi wa polisi.

    kutomba mbali
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