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Lorenzo Romar on 2-16 league record: ‘No way I thought that would happen’
DerekJohnson
Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 68,209 
Comments
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2-16? Even I didn't think it would happen and I loathe him as a coach more than most anyone. If he truly was blindsided, he really has lost his grip.
I just read headlines though -
Just needs more time
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really is a shame he couldn't quite pull off the perfect 0-18 season
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The part that bothers me is the doog echo chamber that's been established.
If enough apologists say the buyout is the rate limiting factor, everyone just assumes that's what will keep him here, despite them never seeing the books or know what UW has available to it.
If enough people say the recruits will leave, then everyone just assumes they will and THAT is the reason to keep him, despite them not knowing that for sure.
TL:DR = No one knows if either of the major excuses are true, but they have no allegiance to UW so they just want to see Porter
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Exactly, and that's what pisses me off about the Romar doogs and their attempt at logic/common sense in defending him.MelloDawg said:The part that bothers me is the doog echo chamber that's been established.
If enough apologists say the buyout is the rate limiting factor, everyone just assumes that's what will keep him here, despite them never seeing the books or know what UW has available to it.
If enough people say the recruits will leave, then everyone just assumes they will and THAT is the reason to keep him, despite them not knowing that for sure.
TL:DR = No one knows if either of the major excuses are true, but they have no allegiance to UW so they just want to see Porter
The person Romar is, has become more important than what the coach Romar has done, and since there is no legitimate x's and o's reason's they can possibly give to save him, it's come down to the crutch of the budget doesn't allow it, and the loss of MPJ, who will be gone by the last week of March next year as a one and done.
Both of which are FS for reasons that you keep him
It's as simple as this: Six years is six years -
The first time I watched UW play Dana Altman's first Oregon team in 2010, I could see that a new era was upon us, and Romar's philosophy and coaching style were dying. Despite UW winning that game and the Pac 10 championship that year, I could see that Altman was simply a smarter, better coach than Romar, immediately. The downward slide has continued ever since, and with Miller at U of A, Alford at UCLA, and whomever is at USC, the UW is fucking fucked for a long time as of right now. Porter cannot do it alone, despite his magic, and he's gone after a Fultz-like freshman year anyway.
Pull the plug. It's fucking over. Time to start from scratch. The best recruits in the nation can't save Romar and won't save the program. Both are dead men walking.
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His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
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Stop it with this doogism. Romar went to four out of six of his NCAAs without Bone, including 2 of the three Sweet 16s. And massive lol at the idea Dollar was an X's and O's guy. If he was worth a damn at X's and O's he wouldn't be a complete failure at Seattle U.DerekJohnson said:His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
It was Roy and IT (plus Nate/Will/Bobby and Brockman/Pondexter/MBA) that elevated those first teams. Not two coaches who have sucked total ass since leaving. -
Then explain all the superstar players we've had since then and the corresponding horrible records and no NCAA tourney appearances.dnc said:
Stop it with this doogism. Romar went to four out of six of his NCAAs without Bone, including 2 of the three Sweet 16s. And massive lol at the idea Dollar was an X's and O's guy. If he was worth a damn at X's and O's he wouldn't be a complete failure at Seattle U.DerekJohnson said:His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
It was Roy and IT (plus Nate/Will/Bobby and Brockman/Pondexter/MBA) that elevated those first teams. Not two coaches who have sucked total ass since leaving.
I used to watch the Huskies back in the day, and those were fairly disciplined teams who played tenacious defense. The games I've seen in the last five years have been atrocities. Every year a very poorly coached team with no concept of defense. Your explanation doesn't hold water. -
Neither does yours. It 100% can't be Bone because he wasn't even here for most of the success. Watch a single Seattle U game and you'll know it wasn't Dollar.DerekJohnson said:
Then explain all the superstar players we've had since then and the corresponding horrible records and no NCAA tourney appearances.dnc said:
Stop it with this doogism. Romar went to four out of six of his NCAAs without Bone, including 2 of the three Sweet 16s. And massive lol at the idea Dollar was an X's and O's guy. If he was worth a damn at X's and O's he wouldn't be a complete failure at Seattle U.DerekJohnson said:His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
It was Roy and IT (plus Nate/Will/Bobby and Brockman/Pondexter/MBA) that elevated those first teams. Not two coaches who have sucked total ass since leaving.
I used to watch the Huskies back in the day, and those were fairly disciplined teams who played tenacious defense. The games I've seen in the last five years have been atrocities. Every year a very poorly coached team with no concept of defense. Your explanation doesn't hold water.
It's pretty simple honestly. It's not about just having talent, it's about having experienced talent. Other than the very first tourney team the other 5 all had multiple all conference caliber upperclassmen or a senior who was the best player in the conference.
05: jr Roy, jr Robinson, sr Conroy, jr Jones (plus sr Tre Murder)
06: Roy (best player in the country), Jones (plus sr Jamaal Williams)
09: sr Dentmon, sr Brockman
10: sr Pondexter (best player in the conference)
11: jr Thomas, sr MBA, sr Holiday
Look at the upperclassmen on the teams since then. The best upperclassmen, arguably the only one worth anything, was Andrew Andrews as a senior. And Andrews wasn't close to the caliber of best player on any of those tourney teams.
The other "superstars" you reference never made it to their junior year. Highest year they were here for:
Ross - sophomore
Wroten - frosh
NWG - soph
Murray - frosh
Chriss - frosh
Fultz - frosh
Romar lucked out early on with a fucking superstar in Roy who couldn't leave early because he was too unselfish early on then jacked his knee up right when he was blowing up as a junior. Then he lucked out with Brockman who couldn't go early because he was too short, then Pondexter who couldn't go early because he underachieved his first two and a half years, then with IT who was 5'8" but finally said fuck it I'm not getting any taller I'll skip my senior year and get this started.
All of those guys went on to play in the NBA (as did Justin Holiday, plus Jones and Conroy who got NBA cups of coffee, I think Dentmon did too). And Nate had a long NBA career and made it til his junior year.
That's ten guys who played in the NBA who made it to at least their junior year at UW in Romar's first 8 years. None in the last 6 years.
It had shit to do with assistant coach x's and o's. -
Your not gonna start up those old tired cliches like "recruiting matters" are you?
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This. The talent was way better on the earlier Romar teams.dnc said:
Neither does yours. It 100% can't be Bone because he wasn't even here for most of the success. Watch a single Seattle U game and you'll know it wasn't Dollar.DerekJohnson said:
Then explain all the superstar players we've had since then and the corresponding horrible records and no NCAA tourney appearances.dnc said:
Stop it with this doogism. Romar went to four out of six of his NCAAs without Bone, including 2 of the three Sweet 16s. And massive lol at the idea Dollar was an X's and O's guy. If he was worth a damn at X's and O's he wouldn't be a complete failure at Seattle U.DerekJohnson said:His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
It was Roy and IT (plus Nate/Will/Bobby and Brockman/Pondexter/MBA) that elevated those first teams. Not two coaches who have sucked total ass since leaving.
I used to watch the Huskies back in the day, and those were fairly disciplined teams who played tenacious defense. The games I've seen in the last five years have been atrocities. Every year a very poorly coached team with no concept of defense. Your explanation doesn't hold water.
It's pretty simple honestly. It's not about just having talent, it's about having experienced talent. Other than the very first tourney team the other 5 all had multiple all conference caliber upperclassmen or a senior who was the best player in the conference.
05: jr Roy, jr Robinson, sr Conroy, jr Jones (plus sr Tre Murder)
06: Roy (best player in the country), Jones (plus sr Jamaal Williams)
09: sr Dentmon, sr Brockman
10: sr Pondexter (best player in the conference)
11: jr Thomas, sr MBA, sr Holiday
Look at the upperclassmen on the teams since then. The best upperclassmen, arguably the only one worth anything, was Andrew Andrews as a senior. And Andrews wasn't close to the caliber of best player on any of those tourney teams.
The other "superstars" you reference never made it to their junior year. Highest year they were here for:
Ross - sophomore
Wroten - frosh
NWG - soph
Murray - frosh
Chriss - frosh
Fultz - frosh
Romar lucked out early on with a fucking superstar in Roy who couldn't leave early because he was too unselfish early on then jacked his knee up right when he was blowing up as a junior. Then he lucked out with Brockman who couldn't go early because he was too short, then Pondexter who couldn't go early because he underachieved his first two and a half years, then with IT who was 5'8" but finally said fuck it I'm not getting any taller I'll skip my senior year and get this started.
All of those guys went on to play in the NBA (as did Justin Holiday, plus Jones and Conroy who got NBA cups of coffee, I think Dentmon did too). And Nate had a long NBA career and made it til his junior year.
That's ten guys who played in the NBA who made it to at least their junior year at UW in Romar's first 8 years. None in the last 6 years.
It had shit to do with assistant coach x's and o's.
The earlier Romar teams had far superior (and seasoned) talent than the teams the past five years. They were stacked. -
The failure is still remarkable. Romar has had two teams with two 1st round picks that he couldn't sniff the tourney with (Ross/wroten, Murray/Chriss).
Other teams miss with a single superstar surrounded by dreck (similar to fultz), but two superstars? And twice?
That's stunning.
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It's embarrassing, but in extremely mild defense of Romar, Tony Wroten was (still is) a terrible basketball player. It's too bad too, he could have been great if he gave a shit.doogville said:The failure is still remarkable. Romar has had two teams with two 1st round picks that he couldn't sniff the tourney with (Ross/wroten, Murray/Chriss).
Other teams miss with a single superstar surrounded by dreck (similar to fultz), but two superstars? And twice?
That's stunning. -
It's Monday. Why hasn't he been fired yet?
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Only rookies fire people on Mondays.MelloDawg said:It's Monday. Why hasn't he been fired yet?
Friday afternoon. Always. -
This sounds like someone who never played basketball. There are two sets of coaching staffs. The one one who does prep before the game and those on the court. Typically your "other coach" is the PG, but can be other positions who are more guard positions that romar has run. Quincy and Roy would fall into that role.DerekJohnson said:
Then explain all the superstar players we've had since then and the corresponding horrible records and no NCAA tourney appearances.dnc said:
Stop it with this doogism. Romar went to four out of six of his NCAAs without Bone, including 2 of the three Sweet 16s. And massive lol at the idea Dollar was an X's and O's guy. If he was worth a damn at X's and O's he wouldn't be a complete failure at Seattle U.DerekJohnson said:His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
It was Roy and IT (plus Nate/Will/Bobby and Brockman/Pondexter/MBA) that elevated those first teams. Not two coaches who have sucked total ass since leaving.
I used to watch the Huskies back in the day, and those were fairly disciplined teams who played tenacious defense. The games I've seen in the last five years have been atrocities. Every year a very poorly coached team with no concept of defense. Your explanation doesn't hold water.
Look at the murderers row of "other coaches" Romar had.
05: jr Roy, jr Robinson, sr Conroy, jr Jones (plus sr Tre Murder)
06: Roy (best player in the country), Jones (plus sr Jamaal Williams)
09: sr Dentmon, sr Brockman
10: sr Pondexter (best player in the conference)
11: jr Thomas, sr MBA, sr Holiday
These guys were better assistants than dollar ever could be as they were having to make decisions on the fly, change plays, manage players and get all the guys on the floor the ball in a good position to score. Romar is a horrid in game coach, but in most cases even the best coaches say they can effect very little in game other than right out of timeouts(a romar specialty).
Romar should be blamed for all the practice time, along with his assistants, that is obviously lost on fundamentals. I will give Romar/staff some credit that it's hard to get mainly freshman to improve dramatically where the teams mentioned above were all older and experienced. But that's just as much on him for how he manages a roster and keeps players in the fold.
His teams used to be good b/c he recruited players who were a certain type to stretch the floor and ran aggressive man to man. As they were older teams they also were going to have a higher defensive IQ than what we see out there today.
Bone and dollar are just dime a dozen assistants who can handle some shit, but at the end of the day you need quality upper classmen to mix with elites like fultz. Not the regular roster shitfest UW has had all decade. -
This is the first time I've ever heard Cameron Dollar and X's and Os in the same discussion ...DerekJohnson said:His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
Dollar filled the role that Conroy is currently filling ... just that Dollar is 1000x more seasoned as a coach than Conroy is ... and Dollar isn't anything THAT special as a coach -
None of the players we've had after BRoy and IT are in the BRoy and IT range ... if BRoy's knees weren't an issue he was a HOF caliber player ... he was THAT good. IT's done way more than I ever thought he was but he always had that defiant I hate losing way more than I like winning gene in him that you need to be a great player.DerekJohnson said:
Then explain all the superstar players we've had since then and the corresponding horrible records and no NCAA tourney appearances.dnc said:
Stop it with this doogism. Romar went to four out of six of his NCAAs without Bone, including 2 of the three Sweet 16s. And massive lol at the idea Dollar was an X's and O's guy. If he was worth a damn at X's and O's he wouldn't be a complete failure at Seattle U.DerekJohnson said:His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
It was Roy and IT (plus Nate/Will/Bobby and Brockman/Pondexter/MBA) that elevated those first teams. Not two coaches who have sucked total ass since leaving.
I used to watch the Huskies back in the day, and those were fairly disciplined teams who played tenacious defense. The games I've seen in the last five years have been atrocities. Every year a very poorly coached team with no concept of defense. Your explanation doesn't hold water.
But even going back to those early teams, they weren't particularly well coached. The above 2 players really made the offense look a lot better than it was from a system standpoint ... which you can get away with when you have those caliber of players pulling the strings. The defensive system was never a strong one against GOOD teams because the over extended defense eventually gets exposed and compromised. It's one of the reasons why I'm bearish on West Virginia in the NCAAs this year because by the time they get to the 2nd weekend and start playing teams that can handle the pressure. But if you go back and watch the 3 that UConn made to put the game into OT ... our defense on the play was SOOOOOOO bad on so many levels ...
Perhaps the biggest issue that the program has had is basically in mindset. The players in the first half of the Romar era played in a way that was consistent with winning basketball. Nate's got plenty of dumbass in him (and I mean that in a good way) ... but he also grew up with a ton of fundamentals and I'll never forget talking to him one day where the discussion of why he shot the ball so high in the air came up and he responded by saying that his daddy told him that he was short so he would need to shoot the ball high in the air to get things done. The time to me where you could start to see the program going backwards in hindsight was when you had a guy like Elston Turner transfer ... Turner was a good but not great player ... but he was a kid that knew a bit about what he was doing and had a father that not only was a former NBA player but NBA assistant. I remember playing with him one day and setting a back pick for him that confused the hell out of him ... we talked about it and I explained what I was doing and it was like a light bulb went off for him because so much of Romar's offense basically just had him stand in a spot and then either catch and shoot or drive from there ... there's a place for that in an offensive system but it's not the basis or foundation for a good to great offense.
If you really want to sum everything up, everything about Romar and his program can best be described as lazy without accountability. -
A smart coach would have either not recruited Wroten or would have never allowed him to get away with his BS.dnc said:
It's embarrassing, but in extremely mild defense of Romar, Tony Wroten was (still is) a terrible basketball player. It's too bad too, he could have been great if he gave a shit.doogville said:The failure is still remarkable. Romar has had two teams with two 1st round picks that he couldn't sniff the tourney with (Ross/wroten, Murray/Chriss).
Other teams miss with a single superstar surrounded by dreck (similar to fultz), but two superstars? And twice?
That's stunning. -
Tre - Fuckin-Money - Simmons, Baby!!!dnc said:
Stop it with this doogism. Romar went to four out of six of his NCAAs without Bone, including 2 of the three Sweet 16s. And massive lol at the idea Dollar was an X's and O's guy. If he was worth a damn at X's and O's he wouldn't be a complete failure at Seattle U.DerekJohnson said:His philosophy wasn't dying. He was reliant on Cameron Dollar and Ken Bone for X's and O's. As soon as they left, we lost all discipline and competency.
It was Roy and IT (plus Nate/Will/Bobby and Brockman/Pondexter/MBA) that elevated those first teams. Not two coaches who have sucked total ass since leaving. -
Wroten was a bust, and another one-and-done distraction. Agree on the others.doogville said:The failure is still remarkable. Romar has had two teams with two 1st round picks that he couldn't sniff the tourney with (Ross/wroten, Murray/Chriss).
Other teams miss with a single superstar surrounded by dreck (similar to fultz), but two superstars? And twice?
That's stunning. -
Wroten had flaws but he was still pretty good. I know many disagree but he was an All Conference player that had stretches where he was the best player on the team.TurdBuffer said:
Wroten was a bust, and another one-and-done distraction. Agree on the others.doogville said:The failure is still remarkable. Romar has had two teams with two 1st round picks that he couldn't sniff the tourney with (Ross/wroten, Murray/Chriss).
Other teams miss with a single superstar surrounded by dreck (similar to fultz), but two superstars? And twice?
That's stunning.
Gaddy was the true bust and that team had nobody in the front court. The conference was horrible. And Romar was the coach. -
Yea, wroten was an insane talent. Imagine if he would have been coached up...RoadDawg55 said:
Wroten had flaws but he was still pretty good. I know many disagree but he was an All Conference player that had stretches where he was the best player on the team.TurdBuffer said:
Wroten was a bust, and another one-and-done distraction. Agree on the others.doogville said:The failure is still remarkable. Romar has had two teams with two 1st round picks that he couldn't sniff the tourney with (Ross/wroten, Murray/Chriss).
Other teams miss with a single superstar surrounded by dreck (similar to fultz), but two superstars? And twice?
That's stunning.
Gaddy was the true bust and that team had nobody in the front court. The conference was horrible. And Romar was the coach. -
Wroten sucked in large part because he always believed his press clippings and never understood what it took to be successful
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Word.Tequilla said:Wroten sucked in large part because he always believed his press clippings and never understood what it took to be successful
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Romar also had no idea how to adapt to the new rules on hand checking. When his pressure defense started getting called every time they touched someone the fouls racked up and the starters went to the bench. I saw something where after the rule change in preseason Coach Cal had his players hands tied behind their back when working on defense. No touching, only use your feet. He did that pre year fucking one of the rule change. Romar kept things status quo and eventually gave up on pressure and switched to a zone. Blamed the athleticism of his players. Zero adjustments or teaching, just a clueless mess.
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There's a drill that I always think back on with regards to defense ... you take a towel, roll it up like you are about to slap someone in the ass/balls with it ... place the towel behind your back and hold with both hands ... now stay in front of the offensive playertheknowledge said:Romar also had no idea how to adapt to the new rules on hand checking. When his pressure defense started getting called every time they touched someone the fouls racked up and the starters went to the bench. I saw something where after the rule change in preseason Coach Cal had his players hands tied behind their back when working on defense. No touching, only use your feet. He did that pre year fucking one of the rule change. Romar kept things status quo and eventually gave up on pressure and switched to a zone. Blamed the athleticism of his players. Zero adjustments or teaching, just a clueless mess.
Good defense starts with making sure you're in position with your feet first and then using your hands to take advantage of sloppy ball handling or bad shot selection ... all reaching does is pick up fouls and get you out of position. -
TIL @Tequilla singlehandedly caused the downfall of UW basketball by outcoaching Romar while balling out at the IMA with Elston Turner.
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Reminds me of this other drill where you take a towel and hold it over someone's face and have them try to do a sit up. Then you have your buddy stand over the guy and position his bare ass right over the guy's face while he's trying to do the sit up.Tequilla said:
There's a drill that I always think back on with regards to defense ... you take a towel, roll it up like you are about to slap someone in the ass/balls with it ... place the towel behind your back and hold with both hands ... now stay in front of the offensive playertheknowledge said:Romar also had no idea how to adapt to the new rules on hand checking. When his pressure defense started getting called every time they touched someone the fouls racked up and the starters went to the bench. I saw something where after the rule change in preseason Coach Cal had his players hands tied behind their back when working on defense. No touching, only use your feet. He did that pre year fucking one of the rule change. Romar kept things status quo and eventually gave up on pressure and switched to a zone. Blamed the athleticism of his players. Zero adjustments or teaching, just a clueless mess.
Good defense starts with making sure you're in position with your feet first and then using your hands to take advantage of sloppy ball handling or bad shot selection ... all reaching does is pick up fouls and get you out of position.
I get the feeling this is the type of drill that Romar emphasized at his practices
