Early Pete > Early Dabo
Comments
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@Tequillacreepycoug said:
You are grasping. These are the arguments offered by REALLY old men who don't really know what they're talking about, but want to convert their general impressions formed 3 decades earlier to axiomatic truth.Tequilla said:Notre Dame was in the National Title Game in the last 5-7 years and been in the hunt a few other years.
Texas always has the talent and resources ... when everything is working right with them they have as high of a ceiling as anybody.
Penn St has a very fertile recruiting ground and insane levels of support.
All 3 have had SIGNIFCANT periods of success throughout history ... their success is a question of not IF but WHEN ...
Miami had about a 20 year run from the early 80s through early 00s where they were at an elite level ... before that nothing and after that above average. I wouldn't claim that anybody that thinks Miami is a blue blood is insane ... but it's certainly very debatable.
As I've said, and supported, "insane levels of support" means, really, nothing. Nobody gets more support than Michigan, and it doesn't translate. And nobody, not even USC or Texas, much less Penn State, has a better recruiting ground than Miami.
Miami's run may have begun relatively recently, but, as an intellectual matter, you've failed to make that relevant. Minnesota was a national power house once upon a time. The fact that a program won something in the 60s, 50s or earlier really has no bearing on anything. The game, society and demographics have changed.
Whenever it started, they've won 5, FIVE, titles, come within an eyelash of two more, played for an additional two more, knocked off some of the greatest teams in history, produced some of the greatest teams in history, produced unprecedented amounts of talent and been part of some of the biggest games in the sport's history. All of that, w/o "insane levels of support" and your other made up shit. Until you can write that off as not likely to return, you'll have to excuse me while I flush a turd that is more thought provoking than your post.
All that with four different coaches. I would think if there is such a thing as an "inevitable" program anywhere, it's Miami.
Penn State has won exactly two titles, both in the 80s, and disappears from dominance for extensive periods of time. Terrible example.
Your example of Texas, in particular, though, is horrible, and honestly, HH joking aside, rather pedestrian.
Not one of your better efforts.
@creepycoug is a dick.
But he's got you on this one.
To say Miami was an elite program for 20 years.
20 fucking years Miami was in the discussion.
That is an eternity in college football.
My money is that Miami would be a consistent national power before UW. And they could pass Texas quickly. -
I like to ignore the one school from the Pac-12 that has appeared in the national championship game twice this decade, I like to do that.Tequilla said:Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:
PAC12
USC
Washington
UCLA
Big 12
Oklahoma
Texas
Big 10
Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin
SEC
Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee
ACC
Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech
It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs. -
Even a broken clock is right TWICE a day.AZDuck said:
I like to ignore the one school from the Pac-12 that has appeared in the national championship game twice this decade, I like to do that.Tequilla said:Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:
PAC12
USC
Washington
UCLA
Big 12
Oklahoma
Texas
Big 10
Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin
SEC
Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee
ACC
Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech
It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs.
EL OH EL!11!!11!!1!!11!1!1!!!!!1111111! -
When talking about winning, yesAZDuck said:
I like to ignore the one school from the Pac-12 that has appeared in the national championship game twice this decade, I like to do that.Tequilla said:Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:
PAC12
USC
Washington
UCLA
Big 12
Oklahoma
Texas
Big 10
Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin
SEC
Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee
ACC
Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech
It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs. -
@Tequilla fully acknowledged that other programs apart from these can pop into the mix from time to time; and Oregon certainly did that with a truly innovative, elite coach, followed by having one of the all time great college QB's. Do you feel with Coach T driving the bus and getting everyone in the right seats on said bus, that Oregon can return to the 2009- 14 level of success?AZDuck said:
I like to ignore the one school from the Pac-12 that has appeared in the national championship game twice this decade, I like to do that.Tequilla said:Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:
PAC12
USC
Washington
UCLA
Big 12
Oklahoma
Texas
Big 10
Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin
SEC
Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee
ACC
Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech
It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs. -
I'd agree that Miami's potential for a 20 year run is greater than UW's ...topdawgnc said:
@Tequillacreepycoug said:
You are grasping. These are the arguments offered by REALLY old men who don't really know what they're talking about, but want to convert their general impressions formed 3 decades earlier to axiomatic truth.Tequilla said:Notre Dame was in the National Title Game in the last 5-7 years and been in the hunt a few other years.
Texas always has the talent and resources ... when everything is working right with them they have as high of a ceiling as anybody.
Penn St has a very fertile recruiting ground and insane levels of support.
All 3 have had SIGNIFCANT periods of success throughout history ... their success is a question of not IF but WHEN ...
Miami had about a 20 year run from the early 80s through early 00s where they were at an elite level ... before that nothing and after that above average. I wouldn't claim that anybody that thinks Miami is a blue blood is insane ... but it's certainly very debatable.
As I've said, and supported, "insane levels of support" means, really, nothing. Nobody gets more support than Michigan, and it doesn't translate. And nobody, not even USC or Texas, much less Penn State, has a better recruiting ground than Miami.
Miami's run may have begun relatively recently, but, as an intellectual matter, you've failed to make that relevant. Minnesota was a national power house once upon a time. The fact that a program won something in the 60s, 50s or earlier really has no bearing on anything. The game, society and demographics have changed.
Whenever it started, they've won 5, FIVE, titles, come within an eyelash of two more, played for an additional two more, knocked off some of the greatest teams in history, produced some of the greatest teams in history, produced unprecedented amounts of talent and been part of some of the biggest games in the sport's history. All of that, w/o "insane levels of support" and your other made up shit. Until you can write that off as not likely to return, you'll have to excuse me while I flush a turd that is more thought provoking than your post.
All that with four different coaches. I would think if there is such a thing as an "inevitable" program anywhere, it's Miami.
Penn State has won exactly two titles, both in the 80s, and disappears from dominance for extensive periods of time. Terrible example.
Your example of Texas, in particular, though, is horrible, and honestly, HH joking aside, rather pedestrian.
Not one of your better efforts.
@creepycoug is a dick.
But he's got you on this one.
To say Miami was an elite program for 20 years.
20 fucking years Miami was in the discussion.
That is an eternity in college football.
My money is that Miami would be a consistent national power before UW. And they could pass Texas quickly.
Being able to sustain excellence over decades matters to me ... that's basically the primary measure that keeps Miami from being a blue blood IMO -
@Tequilla ,
first, topfag is, right. I'm a dick. And, water is wet.
second, I found some light reading for you:
College Football (FBS) Programs That Have Been on Probation the Most
Rk School Seasons Sanctioned
1 Southern Methodist (TX) 17 seasons 7 times
2 Southern California 15 seasons 6 times
3 Auburn (AL) 11 seasons 4 times
4t Alabama 10 seasons 3 times
4t Michigan St. 10 seasons 3 times
4t Oklahoma 10 seasons 5 times
7t Colorado 9 seasons 5 times
7t Illinois 9 seasons 5 times
7t Texas A&M 9 seasons 4 times
7t Wisconsin 9 seasons 4 times
11t Arizona St. 8 seasons 4 times
11t Baylor (TX) 8 seasons 2 times
11t California 8 seasons 3 times
11t Cincinnati (OH) 8 seasons 4 times
11t Kansas 8 seasons 4 times
11t Kansas St. 8 seasons 4 times
11t Miami (FL) 8 seasons 3 times
11t Oklahoma St. 8 seasons 2 times
11t South Carolina 8 seasons 3 times
20t Central Florida 7 seasons 2 times
20t Florida Intl 7 seasons 2 times
20t Houston (TX) 7 seasons 3 times
20t Memphis (TN) 7 seasons 3 times
20t Mississippi 7 seasons 3 times
20t Mississippi St. 7 seasons 3 times
20t Ohio St. 7 seasons 3 times
20t Texas Tech 7 seasons 3 times
The very idea that Miami can only win when they're breaking the rules is ridiculous, but if you want to go there, then there are blue bloods that you'll need to remove from your list, namely USC, Oklahoma, and Alabama.
Also, in the category of, "something stinks in Eugene but we can't prove it," consider that Alabama, in all liklihood, is as dirty as SMU ever was, but hasn't been caught. In the Means case, where venerable Alabama came close to the death penalty, the kid was paid $200k by Bama boosters to sign (not loans like Billy Joe - cold hard cash). We're not talking about Pell grant fraud, phone cards, hookers and rappers paying bounties for big hits, partying on yahts and other favors. We're talking about the people in the stadium suites just buying recruits with money straight up - as bad as it gets - SMU bad (precisely what got them the death penalty). Consider, too, how bad of an actor Alabama's chief rival is, everyone's speculation about how they landed Cam Newton as a recent "no catch" example, and you get a sense for how unclean Alabama has been and what it takes to operate down there.
So don't be so fucking naive.
For the curious, the least penalized conference is the ACC with 18, the most is the SEC with 36, and second most is the Pac, with 31. We can thank ASU and USC for that. -
The stadium situation is garbage, but your argument is a little off. The Orange Bowl does count because it's parallel in the way that matters: it's not an on-campus stadium and it belongs to someone else. If you're a renter, you're a renter. Doesn't matter who the landlord is. Most stadiums in that category over time were municipal anyway, so the question about every winning by leasing out an NFL stadium is a little premature. Also, the Orange Bowl was primarily an NFL stadium. That's where the Dolphins played, and they mattered a long time before the Hurricanes. The U was the "other" tenant.YellowSnow said:
Speaking of stadiums not mattering, how is the Hard Rock Cafe thing working out? Has a team ever won a NT leasing out an NFL stadium? Coliseum and Orange Bowl don't count. Though not on campus facilities , nor owned by the respective universities, both were primarily college venues first, that NFL teams borrowed. Didn't the Canes used to have some kind of home field advantage? If the Dawgs had moved to Century Link we'd be fucking done forever.creepycoug said:
Look, I know you're fucking stupid. But all Cane joking aside, do you not realize that, even though they have been tripping over their lips for the last 14 years, Miami still has more impact players in the NFL than ANY OTHER PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY? Yes, more than LSU, Ohio State, USC, Alabama, Florida State ... any of them. And most of the 2001 guys are out of the league now.Tequilla said:Programs that I view as having legitimate opportunities to win a National Championship by conference (blue bloods being bolded as they have the best shots when all things line up right for them:
PAC12
USC
Washington
UCLA
Big 12
Oklahoma
Texas
Big 10
Ohio St
Michigan
Penn St
Michigan St
Wisconsin
SEC
Alabama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
Texas A&M
Auburn
Tennessee
ACC
Florida St
Notre Dame
Clemson
Miami
Virginia Tech
It's possible for some other programs to jump in from time to time, but at this point, these are the programs that I see as having some combination of the requisite size, support, recruiting capabilities, etc. to be National Championship caliber programs on a consistent basis. Toughest calls for me were leaving Georgia and Clemson off of being blue bloods as they have a lot of things going for them but they need a good amount to go right for them to be legit national championship caliber programs.
As shitty as they've been, and they have been butt stink shitty, they routinely throw first, second and third round guys into the NFL, and those guys blow the fuck up when they get there.
How is it that you can't perceive a scenario where THAT program, with all its history and accomplishment, can't consistently compete for a title, but Texas can???????? Texas has all the shit you listed, and has always had it, and look at them. Before 2005, nobody under the age of 40 knew that they had ever been good. And 2005 was 12 years ago and they haven't done shit since.
It ain't about the money dummy. Oregon has proven that. It ain't about the size of your stadium and how many asses are in the seats. Michigan has proven that. Nebraska has proven that.
It's about who you can recruit and who is coaching them. Alabama has proven that. USC has proven that. LSU has proven that. Florida State has proven that.
I'd be more inclined to lean towards Miami still being Blue Blood because of the 80's through early 2000's and being in close proximity to so much HS football talent. But the stadium situation is fucking garbage.
The difference with the Orange Bowl and what they have now is that the O Bowl was in the city of Miami - you didn't have to drive to Broward to some out in the middle of nowhere location to get there like you do now.
But, yes, Miami's stadium situation is not exactly ideal. But as I've said, who cares? It clearly doesn't matter. -
Completely.PurpleReign said:Your idea of blue bloods is highly debatable.
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Texas did not sustain over decades. You keep glossing over that point. Really, nobody has. Alabama disappeared for a while. SC has disappeared. ND was gone forever after Holtz. Ever run ends.Tequilla said:
I'd agree that Miami's potential for a 20 year run is greater than UW's ...topdawgnc said:
@Tequillacreepycoug said:
You are grasping. These are the arguments offered by REALLY old men who don't really know what they're talking about, but want to convert their general impressions formed 3 decades earlier to axiomatic truth.Tequilla said:Notre Dame was in the National Title Game in the last 5-7 years and been in the hunt a few other years.
Texas always has the talent and resources ... when everything is working right with them they have as high of a ceiling as anybody.
Penn St has a very fertile recruiting ground and insane levels of support.
All 3 have had SIGNIFCANT periods of success throughout history ... their success is a question of not IF but WHEN ...
Miami had about a 20 year run from the early 80s through early 00s where they were at an elite level ... before that nothing and after that above average. I wouldn't claim that anybody that thinks Miami is a blue blood is insane ... but it's certainly very debatable.
As I've said, and supported, "insane levels of support" means, really, nothing. Nobody gets more support than Michigan, and it doesn't translate. And nobody, not even USC or Texas, much less Penn State, has a better recruiting ground than Miami.
Miami's run may have begun relatively recently, but, as an intellectual matter, you've failed to make that relevant. Minnesota was a national power house once upon a time. The fact that a program won something in the 60s, 50s or earlier really has no bearing on anything. The game, society and demographics have changed.
Whenever it started, they've won 5, FIVE, titles, come within an eyelash of two more, played for an additional two more, knocked off some of the greatest teams in history, produced some of the greatest teams in history, produced unprecedented amounts of talent and been part of some of the biggest games in the sport's history. All of that, w/o "insane levels of support" and your other made up shit. Until you can write that off as not likely to return, you'll have to excuse me while I flush a turd that is more thought provoking than your post.
All that with four different coaches. I would think if there is such a thing as an "inevitable" program anywhere, it's Miami.
Penn State has won exactly two titles, both in the 80s, and disappears from dominance for extensive periods of time. Terrible example.
Your example of Texas, in particular, though, is horrible, and honestly, HH joking aside, rather pedestrian.
Not one of your better efforts.
@creepycoug is a dick.
But he's got you on this one.
To say Miami was an elite program for 20 years.
20 fucking years Miami was in the discussion.
That is an eternity in college football.
My money is that Miami would be a consistent national power before UW. And they could pass Texas quickly.
Being able to sustain excellence over decades matters to me ... that's basically the primary measure that keeps Miami from being a blue blood IMO
Miami came back after probation in the 90s and reeled off a very nice three year run. From 1999 to 2003 there wasn't a better program in the country, with the 2000, 2001 and 2002 teams winning or threatening to win it all. At the end of 2000, there wasn't a better team in the country, Oregon State included, 2001 they win it, and 2002 they were within an eyelash of winning it. This came after probation with yet another coach. It fits right into your narrative, but you can't seem to grasp it.
Then the reality that they whiffed on replacing Davis set in, and it went away ... POOF! Just like when Pete left SC. POOF! Gone.
But like SC, they kept producing very high level talent, it just didn't win.
So, like the other programs, Miami is always a coach away from being a bully again. It's really that simple. Stadiums, fuzzy concepts of "massive support" and all the rest is shit made up by old men thinking about the world they knew when they were young.
