Obamacare Website Quietly Deletes Reference to "Free Health Care"

MikeDamone

priapism said:

I don't see how you can have a free market system in a medical emergency. The ambulance company makes the $ choice for you...I wonder how much their bribes and tips from hospital corporations are worth.

I agree that access to health care is getting worse by the month. The fucking hospital here in Vegas was even going to move my mother the very day of her cardiac arrest...that is it until they found out that she had very good health insurance...so they kept her. The current system is a dirty crackwhore.
Without decent access - cheap and relatively inexpensive health problems will inevitably become $$$ emergencies later on, which, not surprisingly is ultimately better for the profits of doctors and hospitals in the long run...

The current system's losses are already socialized. Just like with the banks' gambling losses, the people who don't don't or can't pay, simply get their bills rolled over onto everyone else. In the future, immigrants who don't pay their health bills, could be prevented from reentering this country. Capping charges for hospital tests and procedures and capping medical lawsuit awards could make things fair. IMO, the system has to become basically socialized with the costs - an emergency room visit for a fever or sore throat can easily cost $5K now at the wrong hospital.

Obamacare is a wet bandaid - I've read it only funds the system for 7 years in the 10 year plan. It's just going to cause more problems for low-income people who work at retail places like Walmart and Lowes. A single-payer system sounds much better than having to deal with various, for-profit, health-insurance plans...and bills and costs could be better controlled. A hospital just tried to scam an extra $1500 in fake shit on my dad's hospital bill to his insurance - which failed, and then onto him - he reported them, and those charges finally disappeared. All these various health care middlemen just add to the costs. The European health care systems look so much more healthy and sustainable to me.



+ Imagine the ridiculous costs in the current system, if you were to die slowly in a hospital from a fire...

Government is the problem; it cannot be the solution.

Tailgater

MikeDamone said:

This Third World classification of access to our healthcare system is due primarily to two things:1) greed in the healthcare and insurance industries; and 2) the uninsured population in the USA that still must be cared for by hospitals and other providers passing on the cost to be paid for by the insured.

Wrong on those counts. See SouthenDawg's post for further clarification.

If #2 were correct, we would see a dramatic reduction in costs when everyone has coverage. We have not, nor does anyone predict that taht will result in cost reduction for the average American.


I don't know where you live, but Idaho doesn't have universal coverage and neither do many of the red states in America. SouthenDawg is an insurance industry propagandist and I wouldn't believe anything he posts of this subject. Idaho has come to their senses by eventually pushing aside the nullifiers and set-up the means through assistance from state agencies for people to buy insurance this coming month or the next. At present, the uninsured are still uninsured at least here any many other places such as Texas.

As for greed and cost, the American healthcare system comprised of providers and insurers is the epitome of why America's so-called free market economy is a myth and the alltime biggest con game ever perpetrated on the American people. The first part of any solution is to get rid of the healthcare insurance industry by outlawing it completely. The second then would be to take usury out of the healthcare provider system. Hospitals and clinics and the vast systems that own these institutions can be public non-profit or private for-profit, but they must not have IPO's and stockholders.

section8

Profit is part of it, lobbyists are part of it, lawsuits and the cost of malpractice settlements are part of it and people using the most expensive medical care possible (Emergency Rooms) for a hangnail is also part of it.

There's lots of options out there but the "let the market figure it out" hasn't really been a working solution thus far.

MikeDamone

section8 said:

Profit is part of it, lobbyists are part of it, lawsuits and the cost of malpractice settlements are part of it and people using the most expensive medical care possible (Emergency Rooms) for a hangnail is also part of it.

There's lots of options out there but the "let the market figure it out" hasn't really been a working solution thus far.

We don't have, and have never had a "let the market figure it out" solution. Not even close.

MikeDamone

Tailgater said:

MikeDamone said:

This Third World classification of access to our healthcare system is due primarily to two things:1) greed in the healthcare and insurance industries; and 2) the uninsured population in the USA that still must be cared for by hospitals and other providers passing on the cost to be paid for by the insured.

Wrong on those counts. See SouthenDawg's post for further clarification.

If #2 were correct, we would see a dramatic reduction in costs when everyone has coverage. We have not, nor does anyone predict that taht will result in cost reduction for the average American.

I don't know where you live, but Idaho doesn't have universal coverage and neither do many of the red states in America. SouthenDawg is an insurance industry propagandist and I wouldn't believe anything he posts of this subject. Idaho has come to their senses by eventually pushing aside the nullifiers and set-up the means through assistance from state agencies for people to buy insurance this coming month or the next. At present, the uninsured are still uninsured at least here any many other places such as Texas.

As for greed and cost, the American healthcare system comprised of providers and insurers is the epitome of why America's so-called free market economy is a myth and the alltime biggest con game ever perpetrated on the American people. The first part of any solution is to get rid of the healthcare insurance industry by outlawing it completely. The second then would be to take usury out of the healthcare provider system. Hospitals and clinics and the vast systems that own these institutions can be public non-profit or private for-profit, but they must not have IPO's and stockholders.



Disagree. The government and Keynesian economic policy has fucked up the economy for decades. And your answer is more government, more fucked up monetary policy, and more regulation of anything that resembles the free market? If you think the insurance companies and health care providers have operated under anything that resembles a free market system then even Ludwig Von Mises can't help you.

priapism

IMO, I believe a handful of things need to be at the least, heavily regulated by the gov, if not run by the gov. Banking, health care, and national defense can't be privately operated and trusted, otherwise the various inevitable scams that pop up in them will keep causing unnecessary extremes in economic instability.

Sociopaths will ALWAYS destroy/fuck-up a free market, when they have the means to. They would push your grandma over a cliff for $1 if it were legal. Most CEOs and politicians are sociopaths. They are 1-3% of the population. True, free markets don't last very long because of them.

[Deleted User]

Single payer seems to be working well out here. But then again, the population is relatively wealthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform

TierbsHsotBoobs

CollegeDoog said:

Single payer seems to be working well out here. But then again, the population is relatively wealthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform

You also don't have racial minorities (which helps to explain the whole *wealth* thing).

MikeDamone

priapism said:

IMO, I believe a handful of things need to be at the least, heavily regulated by the gov, if not run by the gov. Banking, health care, and national defense can't be privately operated and trusted, otherwise the various inevitable scams that pop up in them will keep causing unnecessary extremes in economic instability.

Sociopaths will ALWAYS destroy/fuck-up a free market, when they have the means to. They would push your grandma over a cliff for $1 if it were legal. Most CEOs and politicians are sociopaths. They are 1-3% of the population. True, free markets don't last very long because of them.

Really? Give me an example of a truly free market that didn't last very long.

Banking and healthcare would do fine in a free market. But you don't have an example of either of those industries operating in one. National defense is a different animal, but it should be defense, not what we have now.

MikeDamone

TierbsHsotBoobs said:

CollegeDoog said:

Single payer seems to be working well out here. But then again, the population is relatively wealthy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermont_health_care_reform

You also don't have racial minorities (which helps to explain the whole *wealth* thing).

Can you show causation? That's what I thought.