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  • greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,428
    The article is actually pretty fair.

    And I agree that nostalgia does skew reality. Don't we do that in sports?

    Economically there is some pros and cons to both. Houses in today's dollars are worth more than they were in 1988, and the loan rate is also less. I would argue though that some of these stats are "smoke and mirrors", because they are a result from larger Government subsidies that weren't around then. Which is evident in the doubling of the National Debt as a percentage of GDP. Military spending is a large part of it too, but you can't argue that the massive bail outs and federal ran programs like Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac used as tools to manipulate loan rates didn't have an impact as well.

    Inflation is down, but inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having 3.8 percent inflation is nothing if your economy is growing over 4% in the same year.

    I'm too young to know much about 1988, but from what the article says, a lot of it was an overall enthusiasm. Americans don't have that anymore. You can say I guess, we lost our momentum, and we need that back.

    I don't harp on the social issues. 1988 wasn't great but it was better than 1968. We were making progress. Gender and racial equality isn't changed overnight, and isn't changed by government "fairness". It's changed by societal changes over time. What people need to realize is that you don't fight racism with racism, that just creates more racism.

    But in the end, like the 1996 Bulls and the 2016 Warriors debate, this one is equally stupid for one simple fact. We have variables now that were never in play in 1988. We didn't have an underground network of terrorist groups causing havoc across the world, and we also didn't have a global economic system like we do now. Those all play a large part in how we operate today.

    But one fact holds true: We as a nation need to be able to be self reliant economically and militarily. When we aren't we become weak negotiators, and are influenced more greatly by outside forces. We need to pay off our debts, and we need to have a stronger national defense system. When countries like China or Japan have economic crises, it shouldn't make a 20-25% or greater difference in our economy. We need to be more diversified.
  • sarktasticsarktastic Member Posts: 9,208
    edited April 2016
    In 1988 anyone Could purchase a home with zero down and a 620 credit score. If they paid their house payment on time, they could have purchased any number of waterfront lots on contract, anywhere in the Puget Sound area and used equity and now 740 credit score, and built on a custom construction loan just two years later.

    lather rinse repeat

    Good times.
  • TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    1988 and 2016 are both great.

    Unless you're poor.

    Then go fuck yourself.
  • SoutherndawgSoutherndawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,299 Founders Club

    The article is actually pretty fair.

    And I agree that nostalgia does skew reality. Don't we do that in sports?

    Economically there is some pros and cons to both. Houses in today's dollars are worth more than they were in 1988, and the loan rate is also less. I would argue though that some of these stats are "smoke and mirrors", because they are a result from larger Government subsidies that weren't around then. Which is evident in the doubling of the National Debt as a percentage of GDP. Military spending is a large part of it too, but you can't argue that the massive bail outs and federal ran programs like Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac used as tools to manipulate loan rates didn't have an impact as well.

    Inflation is down, but inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having 3.8 percent inflation is nothing if your economy is growing over 4% in the same year.

    I'm too young to know much about 1988, but from what the article says, a lot of it was an overall enthusiasm. Americans don't have that anymore. You can say I guess, we lost our momentum, and we need that back.

    I don't harp on the social issues. 1988 wasn't great but it was better than 1968. We were making progress. Gender and racial equality isn't changed overnight, and isn't changed by government "fairness". It's changed by societal changes over time. What people need to realize is that you don't fight racism with racism, that just creates more racism.

    But in the end, like the 1996 Bulls and the 2016 Warriors debate, this one is equally stupid for one simple fact. We have variables now that were never in play in 1988. We didn't have an underground network of terrorist groups causing havoc across the world, and we also didn't have a global economic system like we do now. Those all play a large part in how we operate today.

    But one fact holds true: We as a nation need to be able to be self reliant economically and militarily. When we aren't we become weak negotiators, and are influenced more greatly by outside forces. We need to pay off our debts, and we need to have a stronger national defense system. When countries like China or Japan have economic crises, it shouldn't make a 20-25% or greater difference in our economy. We need to be more diversified.

    Gotta say solid post but you're wrong in saying that 1988 wasn't great, because for the most part it was. There was an enormous amount of opportunity in the mid/late 1980's that hasn't been repeated since. College graduates with meaningful degrees had multiple job offers, and those with experience had mobility that is unheard of today. Blue collar workers also had a ton of opportunity. I don't think young people appreciate how much damage has been done, in fact they vehemently want to double down in the spirit and "comfort" of a paternalistic promise. Very sad commentary.
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 33,898 Standard Supporter
    80's were awesome. Ronnie and an energized economy with actual real jobs. That decade was very good to me and mine. Money to be made if you worked hard.
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    Sledog said:

    80's were awesome. Ronnie and an energized economy with actual real jobs. That decade was very good to me and mine. Money to be made if you worked hard.

    Yet unemployment was higher in 1988 than it is now.
  • SoutherndawgSoutherndawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,299 Founders Club
    2001400ex said:

    Sledog said:

    80's were awesome. Ronnie and an energized economy with actual real jobs. That decade was very good to me and mine. Money to be made if you worked hard.

    Yet unemployment was higher in 1988 than it is now.
    You really are an idiot
  • PurpleJPurpleJ Member Posts: 37,258 Founders Club
    I was born in 1988. Cased fuckig close.
  • greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,428

    The article is actually pretty fair.

    And I agree that nostalgia does skew reality. Don't we do that in sports?

    Economically there is some pros and cons to both. Houses in today's dollars are worth more than they were in 1988, and the loan rate is also less. I would argue though that some of these stats are "smoke and mirrors", because they are a result from larger Government subsidies that weren't around then. Which is evident in the doubling of the National Debt as a percentage of GDP. Military spending is a large part of it too, but you can't argue that the massive bail outs and federal ran programs like Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac used as tools to manipulate loan rates didn't have an impact as well.

    Inflation is down, but inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having 3.8 percent inflation is nothing if your economy is growing over 4% in the same year.

    I'm too young to know much about 1988, but from what the article says, a lot of it was an overall enthusiasm. Americans don't have that anymore. You can say I guess, we lost our momentum, and we need that back.

    I don't harp on the social issues. 1988 wasn't great but it was better than 1968. We were making progress. Gender and racial equality isn't changed overnight, and isn't changed by government "fairness". It's changed by societal changes over time. What people need to realize is that you don't fight racism with racism, that just creates more racism.

    But in the end, like the 1996 Bulls and the 2016 Warriors debate, this one is equally stupid for one simple fact. We have variables now that were never in play in 1988. We didn't have an underground network of terrorist groups causing havoc across the world, and we also didn't have a global economic system like we do now. Those all play a large part in how we operate today.

    But one fact holds true: We as a nation need to be able to be self reliant economically and militarily. When we aren't we become weak negotiators, and are influenced more greatly by outside forces. We need to pay off our debts, and we need to have a stronger national defense system. When countries like China or Japan have economic crises, it shouldn't make a 20-25% or greater difference in our economy. We need to be more diversified.

    Gotta say solid post but you're wrong in saying that 1988 wasn't great, because for the most part it was. There was an enormous amount of opportunity in the mid/late 1980's that hasn't been repeated since. College graduates with meaningful degrees had multiple job offers, and those with experience had mobility that is unheard of today. Blue collar workers also had a ton of opportunity. I don't think young people appreciate how much damage has been done, in fact they vehemently want to double down in the spirit and "comfort" of a paternalistic promise. Very sad commentary.
    When I said the 80's weren't great I was referring to the racial divide. The racial tension has gradually improved since the 60s and was merely indicating that they are better now than in 88 but 88 was part of a continued improvement from 1968.
  • greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,428
    2001400ex said:

    Sledog said:

    80's were awesome. Ronnie and an energized economy with actual real jobs. That decade was very good to me and mine. Money to be made if you worked hard.

    Yet unemployment was higher in 1988 than it is now.
    Like everyone said, comparing unemployment rates in 1988 to 2016 is like comparing the 96 bulls and 2016 warriors. Different rules in how unemployment was calculated. Good try though. Of course the numbers will be different when the formula changes, but I bet you already knew that.
  • greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,428
    One big reason 88' was better...

    Con artists weren't allowed to use "anxiety" as a disability to claim other people's hard earned money.
  • JaWarrenJaHookerJaWarrenJaHooker Member Posts: 2,056

    The article is actually pretty fair.

    And I agree that nostalgia does skew reality. Don't we do that in sports?

    Economically there is some pros and cons to both. Houses in today's dollars are worth more than they were in 1988, and the loan rate is also less. I would argue though that some of these stats are "smoke and mirrors", because they are a result from larger Government subsidies that weren't around then. Which is evident in the doubling of the National Debt as a percentage of GDP. Military spending is a large part of it too, but you can't argue that the massive bail outs and federal ran programs like Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac used as tools to manipulate loan rates didn't have an impact as well.

    Inflation is down, but inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having 3.8 percent inflation is nothing if your economy is growing over 4% in the same year.

    I'm too young to know much about 1988, but from what the article says, a lot of it was an overall enthusiasm. Americans don't have that anymore. You can say I guess, we lost our momentum, and we need that back.

    I don't harp on the social issues. 1988 wasn't great but it was better than 1968. We were making progress. Gender and racial equality isn't changed overnight, and isn't changed by government "fairness". It's changed by societal changes over time. What people need to realize is that you don't fight racism with racism, that just creates more racism.

    But in the end, like the 1996 Bulls and the 2016 Warriors debate, this one is equally stupid for one simple fact. We have variables now that were never in play in 1988. We didn't have an underground network of terrorist groups causing havoc across the world, and we also didn't have a global economic system like we do now. Those all play a large part in how we operate today.

    But one fact holds true: We as a nation need to be able to be self reliant economically and militarily. When we aren't we become weak negotiators, and are influenced more greatly by outside forces. We need to pay off our debts, and we need to have a stronger national defense system. When countries like China or Japan have economic crises, it shouldn't make a 20-25% or greater difference in our economy. We need to be more diversified.

    Jesus Christ, Tequila
  • SoutherndawgSoutherndawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,299 Founders Club

    The article is actually pretty fair.

    And I agree that nostalgia does skew reality. Don't we do that in sports?

    Economically there is some pros and cons to both. Houses in today's dollars are worth more than they were in 1988, and the loan rate is also less. I would argue though that some of these stats are "smoke and mirrors", because they are a result from larger Government subsidies that weren't around then. Which is evident in the doubling of the National Debt as a percentage of GDP. Military spending is a large part of it too, but you can't argue that the massive bail outs and federal ran programs like Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac used as tools to manipulate loan rates didn't have an impact as well.

    Inflation is down, but inflation isn't necessarily a bad thing. Having 3.8 percent inflation is nothing if your economy is growing over 4% in the same year.

    I'm too young to know much about 1988, but from what the article says, a lot of it was an overall enthusiasm. Americans don't have that anymore. You can say I guess, we lost our momentum, and we need that back.

    I don't harp on the social issues. 1988 wasn't great but it was better than 1968. We were making progress. Gender and racial equality isn't changed overnight, and isn't changed by government "fairness". It's changed by societal changes over time. What people need to realize is that you don't fight racism with racism, that just creates more racism.

    But in the end, like the 1996 Bulls and the 2016 Warriors debate, this one is equally stupid for one simple fact. We have variables now that were never in play in 1988. We didn't have an underground network of terrorist groups causing havoc across the world, and we also didn't have a global economic system like we do now. Those all play a large part in how we operate today.

    But one fact holds true: We as a nation need to be able to be self reliant economically and militarily. When we aren't we become weak negotiators, and are influenced more greatly by outside forces. We need to pay off our debts, and we need to have a stronger national defense system. When countries like China or Japan have economic crises, it shouldn't make a 20-25% or greater difference in our economy. We need to be more diversified.

    Gotta say solid post but you're wrong in saying that 1988 wasn't great, because for the most part it was. There was an enormous amount of opportunity in the mid/late 1980's that hasn't been repeated since. College graduates with meaningful degrees had multiple job offers, and those with experience had mobility that is unheard of today. Blue collar workers also had a ton of opportunity. I don't think young people appreciate how much damage has been done, in fact they vehemently want to double down in the spirit and "comfort" of a paternalistic promise. Very sad commentary.
    When I said the 80's weren't great I was referring to the racial divide. The racial tension has gradually improved since the 60s and was merely indicating that they are better now than in 88 but 88 was part of a continued improvement from 1968.
    My bad, I misunderstood the context. Racial tensions definitely improved from 1968 to 1988, and are better in some ways today, but I'd argue that a pretty serious step back has taken place as well. They have improved in terms of racism directed to minority groups, but in general, racial tensions have become markedly worse with the post millennium rise of movements like the New Black Panthers, Black Lives Matter and La Raza, coupled with an increasing acceptance of race based social justice warriors like Al Sharpton. These groups are all race based and thrive by creating and leveraging racial tension to derive power and influence from. And as long as they are successful, this trend will continue.
  • sarktasticsarktastic Member Posts: 9,208

    1988 was a damned good year - particularly #7

    bobborst.com/popculture/top-100-songs-of-the-year/?year=1988

    image

    Whitney Houston looks almost white in this picture
  • Fire_Marshall_BillFire_Marshall_Bill Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 23,918 Founders Club

    One big reason 88' was better...

    Con artists weren't allowed to use "anxiety" as a disability to claim other people's hard earned money.

    People also didn't bring dogs, snakes, ferrets (and probably rats) into Safeway, book stores, restaurants and other businesses unless they were really actually fucking blind (and it was just service dogs). Even dumbass hippies and white trash used to grasp the rules.
  • Fire_Marshall_BillFire_Marshall_Bill Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 23,918 Founders Club

    1988 was a damned good year - particularly #7

    bobborst.com/popculture/top-100-songs-of-the-year/?year=1988

    image

    Whitney Houston looks almost white in this picture
    I know you're being sarcastic...but Belinda Carlisle
  • doogsinparadisedoogsinparadise Member Posts: 9,320

    One big reason 88' was better...

    Con artists weren't allowed to use "anxiety" as a disability to claim other people's hard earned money.

    People also didn't bring dogs, snakes, ferrets (and probably rats) into Safeway, book stores, restaurants and other businesses unless they were really actually fucking blind (and it was just service dogs). Even dumbass hippies and white trash used to grasp the rules.
    If you're going to bash hippies sticking it to the rules then I'm fucking out of here!
  • SledogSledog Member Posts: 33,898 Standard Supporter

    One big reason 88' was better...

    Con artists weren't allowed to use "anxiety" as a disability to claim other people's hard earned money.

    People also didn't bring dogs, snakes, ferrets (and probably rats) into Safeway, book stores, restaurants and other businesses unless they were really actually fucking blind (and it was just service dogs). Even dumbass hippies and white trash used to grasp the rules.
    If you're going to bash hippies sticking it to the rules then I'm fucking out of here!
    Why hippies were born to be bashed!
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