Murray and Chriss both on latest draft projection

bananasnblondes

In his entire career at UW, I don't think Romar has ever been able to convince a kid to stay at UW instead of declaring early if they had a realistic chance of being drafted (Hawes, Webster, IT, Nate, Wroten, maybe others). Maybe Roy could have gone early but he didn't really blow up until his senior year. Anyways, Will this be the year he convinces one or both of these guys to stay? Adding Fultz and Timmons to this squad might just be enough talent to get back to the SWEET 16!!!

Gladstone

The talent is already more than good enough to get back to the S16. The youth and coaching, though...

edit: I Agree with rest of post. Hopefully the promise of playing with Fultz (who is good friends with Murray) keeps him around.

Doogles

I love Chriss' game. That dude floats for an extra second or two. This team is fun to watch and as talented as we've had, but everyone is still pretty rail thin.

Is Murray that much better than Terrence Ross that he would go 1 and done while Ross stayed? He's a little more consistent than Ross, but he is also smaller and not quite as athletic (not a knock on Murray, Ross is a freak).

FreeChavez

I will say that considering the rules over the years and the way contracts are constructed there hasn't been a bad decision by a player mentioned above. Hawes and webster especially could have easily been exposed as relatively mediocre guys but since they got 3 years on 1 round contracts they ended up being "veterans" that can be apart of a locker room for longer than they likely deserve in actually NBA talent world.

IT had zero to prove at UW. He wouldn't have improved his draft stock one bit by staying another year and actually just delayed his earning potential as an athlete. Wroten was a terrible overall player with incredible talent and continued that trend in the nba. Wroten didn't want to go to school, nor improve his game. He wanted his dick sucked by anyone within 6" of his body and didn't want to hear he needed to actually get better to play in the nba.

People like nate, IT, roy, ross, etc understood the theory that being great in HS doesn't equate to the nba. You have to work on your game to get somewhere. Maybe TW learns it before he's completely broke and out on queen ann blvd.

I respect romar for helping kids make decisions for their lives. I hope he's pushing some kids out and saying make money(like IT) b/c you have nothing to prove anymore. Some, like TW you just can't save.

dnc

I can't see Chriss getting drafted yet. I think Murray's a late first round pick if he goes, so I put it at a coin flip on him at this point.

I do think Chavez's point is a good one, none of those guys but Wroten had anything to gain by coming back, and Wroten only if he came back with a completely different attitude. Murray legitimately could be a lot higher pick if he comes back. Gonna be interesting.

ThomasFremont

They're both coming back.

FreeChavez

Murray coming back is akin to ross. Leaves now he's a borderline 1st rounder(today's call unless he goes nuts the last 2 months). If he comes back one year he's a lottery pick. There is a HUGE difference between tweener 1st round and lock for 1st round. Murray isn't even in the same stratosphere as a wroten. He's savvy. the kid will and should do his due diligence, but at the end of the day if he's a tweener at the 1st/2nd, he'll come back.

Look at what the team will have back and add! Ross is literally the perfect example. ross was a lost puppy on defense in his frosh year and turned into a defensive stopper in one year. Murray has the same ability to jump as a player on both sides of the court. Unless he's an absolute lock for 1st round he should come back.

FreeChavez

ThomasFremont said:

They're both coming back.

I WTF you only b/c it's been over a week since i've had the chance

"FAGGOTY ASS WINK"

ThomasFremont

FreeChavez said:

ThomasFremont said:

They're both coming back.

I WTF you only b/c it's been over a week since i've had the chance

"FAGGOTY ASS WINK"

RoadDawg55

Murray is the real deal. Everyone gets caught up about who is ready for the draft, but hardly any college players are. Murray would need time in the NBA to develop, but Zach Lavine was a lottery pick. I doubt Murray would get taken that high, but he's better than Lavine.

Chriss is good, but he's raw as fuck. It would suck to lose him because he will wash out in the NBA without more seasoning. He fouls out every game. He's skilled and has a lot f talent, but it's not all there. It's hard not to be excited about him when you do see it though.

I like Dickerson a lot too. He's a 4 year player that has good natural skills. I think he could be a really good college player.

dnc

RoadDawg55 said:

Murray is the real deal. Everyone gets caught up about who is ready for the draft, but hardly any college players are. Murray would need time in the NBA to develop, but Zach Lavine was a lottery pick. I doubt Murray would get taken that high, but he's better than Lavine.

Chriss is good, but he's raw as fuck. It would suck to lose him because he will wash out in the NBA without more seasoning. He fouls out every game. He's skilled and has a lot f talent, but it's not all there. It's hard not to be excited about him when you do see it though.

I like Dickerson a lot too. He's a 4 year player that has good natural skills. I think he could be a really good college player.

Agree with basically everything you're saying here. I would add that I really like Thybulle. Seems to be a really smart player outside of some dumb fouls. Reminds me a little of Shane Battier in that he's kind of an overlooked part of a much hyped recruiting class who has started out as a willing role player but has the ability to develop into much more by his senior year. I don't think he's going to lead UW to an NC as a senior so don't twist, just saying he's a hard-working, unselfish, high IQ wing in a class full of shinier objects. I love his game.

ThomasFremont

dnc said:

RoadDawg55 said:

Murray is the real deal. Everyone gets caught up about who is ready for the draft, but hardly any college players are. Murray would need time in the NBA to develop, but Zach Lavine was a lottery pick. I doubt Murray would get taken that high, but he's better than Lavine.

Chriss is good, but he's raw as fuck. It would suck to lose him because he will wash out in the NBA without more seasoning. He fouls out every game. He's skilled and has a lot f talent, but it's not all there. It's hard not to be excited about him when you do see it though.

I like Dickerson a lot too. He's a 4 year player that has good natural skills. I think he could be a really good college player.

Agree with basically everything you're saying here. I would add that I really like Thybulle. Seems to be a really smart player outside of some dumb fouls. Reminds me a little of Shane Battier in that he's kind of an overlooked part of a much hyped recruiting class who has started out as a willing role player but has the ability to develop into much more by his senior year. I don't think he's going to lead UW to an NC as a senior so don't twist, just saying he's a hard-working, unselfish, high IQ wing in a class full of shinier objects. I love his game.

Thybulle has hit some big time 3s in pressure situations.

RoadDawg55

The good thing about Dickerson, Thybulle, and Crisp is that all three are good core players that will be around for four years. All three have a chance to be really good players as upperclassmen.

BallSacked

RoadDawg55 said:

Murray is the real deal. Everyone gets caught up about who is ready for the draft, but hardly any college players are. Murray would need time in the NBA to develop, but Zach Lavine was a lottery pick. I doubt Murray would get taken that high, but he's better than Lavine.

Chriss is good, but he's raw as fuck. It would suck to lose him because he will wash out in the NBA without more seasoning. He fouls out every game. He's skilled and has a lot f talent, but it's not all there. It's hard not to be excited about him when you do see it though.

I like Dickerson a lot too. He's a 4 year player that has good natural skills. I think he could be a really good college player.

The false assumption with these stay/go fan analysis is that staying in college another year is better for development than being in the NBA. It's not. Especially not these days.

Players are limited by the NCAA on how much they can practice, they have to waste time staying academically eligible, the coaching is worse, the nutrition and S&C is worse, and when they do play/practice it's mostly against dreck (CBB really sucks). If a player has guaranteed money (eg first round) they should probably jump on it. They'll get paid and they'll develop. 2nd round is borderline - those guys are treated like throw aways.

Gladstone

^ datruth

TommySQC

bananasnblondes said:

In his entire career at UW, I don't think Romar has ever been able to convince a kid to stay at UW instead of declaring early if they had a realistic chance of being drafted (Hawes, Webster, IT, Nate, Wroten, maybe others). Maybe Roy could have gone early but he didn't really blow up until his senior year. Anyways, Will this be the year he convinces one or both of these guys to stay? Adding Fultz and Timmons to this squad might just be enough talent to get back to the SWEET 16!!!

After 5 years off shitty basketball, Romar supporters have argued that UW needs to retain him because he has a monster class coming in and he needs to be the beneficiary of his great recruiting.

The first year with that class they are a bubble tourney team and then the best two guys bail.

Fucking Classic.

doogsinparadise

The only thing holding Murray back is that he can't jump like Lavine or Ross, but his ball skills are so superior that it might not matter.

Swaye

TommySQC said:

bananasnblondes said:

In his entire career at UW, I don't think Romar has ever been able to convince a kid to stay at UW instead of declaring early if they had a realistic chance of being drafted (Hawes, Webster, IT, Nate, Wroten, maybe others). Maybe Roy could have gone early but he didn't really blow up until his senior year. Anyways, Will this be the year he convinces one or both of these guys to stay? Adding Fultz and Timmons to this squad might just be enough talent to get back to the SWEET 16!!!

After 5 years off shitty basketball, Romar supporters have argued that UW needs to retain him because he has a monster class coming in and he needs to be the beneficiary of his great recruiting.

The first year with that class they are a bubble tourney team and then the best two guys bail.

Fucking Classic.

From your lips to REAL God's ears. Cook it.

RoadDawg55

BallSacked said:

RoadDawg55 said:

Murray is the real deal. Everyone gets caught up about who is ready for the draft, but hardly any college players are. Murray would need time in the NBA to develop, but Zach Lavine was a lottery pick. I doubt Murray would get taken that high, but he's better than Lavine.

Chriss is good, but he's raw as fuck. It would suck to lose him because he will wash out in the NBA without more seasoning. He fouls out every game. He's skilled and has a lot f talent, but it's not all there. It's hard not to be excited about him when you do see it though.

I like Dickerson a lot too. He's a 4 year player that has good natural skills. I think he could be a really good college player.

The false assumption with these stay/go fan analysis is that staying in college another year is better for development than being in the NBA. It's not. Especially not these days.

Players are limited by the NCAA on how much they can practice, they have to waste time staying academically eligible, the coaching is worse, the nutrition and S&C is worse, and when they do play/practice it's mostly against dreck (CBB really sucks). If a player has guaranteed money (eg first round) they should probably jump on it. They'll get paid and they'll develop. 2nd round is borderline - those guys are treated like throw aways.

There is still a fine line. A lot of first rounders are throwaways too. A guy like B-Roy made millions by staying and getting his chance to shine in college. Blake Griffin made millions by staying for his sophomore year. They still would have developed in the NBA had they left early, but it helped them to stay in college.

BallSacked

RoadDawg55 said:

BallSacked said:

RoadDawg55 said:

Murray is the real deal. Everyone gets caught up about who is ready for the draft, but hardly any college players are. Murray would need time in the NBA to develop, but Zach Lavine was a lottery pick. I doubt Murray would get taken that high, but he's better than Lavine.

Chriss is good, but he's raw as fuck. It would suck to lose him because he will wash out in the NBA without more seasoning. He fouls out every game. He's skilled and has a lot f talent, but it's not all there. It's hard not to be excited about him when you do see it though.

I like Dickerson a lot too. He's a 4 year player that has good natural skills. I think he could be a really good college player.

The false assumption with these stay/go fan analysis is that staying in college another year is better for development than being in the NBA. It's not. Especially not these days.

Players are limited by the NCAA on how much they can practice, they have to waste time staying academically eligible, the coaching is worse, the nutrition and S&C is worse, and when they do play/practice it's mostly against dreck (CBB really sucks). If a player has guaranteed money (eg first round) they should probably jump on it. They'll get paid and they'll develop. 2nd round is borderline - those guys are treated like throw aways.

There is still a fine line. A lot of first rounders are throwaways too. A guy like B-Roy made millions by staying and getting his chance to shine in college. Blake Griffin made millions by staying for his sophomore year. They still would have developed in the NBA had they left early, but it helped them to stay in college.

Sure, but first rounders get guaranteed $. Not so with 2nd rounders.

I don't recall Roy's junior year - wasn't he a first round talent that surprisingly came back? If so, I doubt returning was a meaningful decision for him. Or that he would have developed into a lesser player if he had one less year of speshul coaching by Romar.

He got better draft position as a result of returning (maybe), but if he left he would have been making rookie money sooner and got to the 2nd/3rd contract payday sooner. Given how short his career was...that could have been better for him.

Doogles

BallSacked said:

RoadDawg55 said:

BallSacked said:

RoadDawg55 said:

Murray is the real deal. Everyone gets caught up about who is ready for the draft, but hardly any college players are. Murray would need time in the NBA to develop, but Zach Lavine was a lottery pick. I doubt Murray would get taken that high, but he's better than Lavine.

Chriss is good, but he's raw as fuck. It would suck to lose him because he will wash out in the NBA without more seasoning. He fouls out every game. He's skilled and has a lot f talent, but it's not all there. It's hard not to be excited about him when you do see it though.

I like Dickerson a lot too. He's a 4 year player that has good natural skills. I think he could be a really good college player.

The false assumption with these stay/go fan analysis is that staying in college another year is better for development than being in the NBA. It's not. Especially not these days.

Players are limited by the NCAA on how much they can practice, they have to waste time staying academically eligible, the coaching is worse, the nutrition and S&C is worse, and when they do play/practice it's mostly against dreck (CBB really sucks). If a player has guaranteed money (eg first round) they should probably jump on it. They'll get paid and they'll develop. 2nd round is borderline - those guys are treated like throw aways.

There is still a fine line. A lot of first rounders are throwaways too. A guy like B-Roy made millions by staying and getting his chance to shine in college. Blake Griffin made millions by staying for his sophomore year. They still would have developed in the NBA had they left early, but it helped them to stay in college.

Sure, but first rounders get guaranteed $. Not so with 2nd rounders.

I don't recall Roy's junior year - wasn't he a first round talent that surprisingly came back? If so, I doubt returning was a meaningful decision for him. Or that he would have developed into a lesser player if he had one less year of speshul coaching by Romar.

He got better draft position as a result of returning (maybe), but if he left he would have been making rookie money sooner and got to the 2nd/3rd contract payday sooner. Given how short his career was...that could have been better for him.

It really is hard to say with sports psychology. Can a guy get beat up mentally, get discouraged by riding pine, and never develop to his potential as a result?

Maybe he stays, balls out while getting better, is now prepared to take his lumps at the next level and survive to the second contract.

I agree if you're a lock for round 1 you need to go, but seeing both Ross and Roy become lottery picks when they were fringe 1st rounders shows the benefit.