I think about TCU a lot in regards to the offense. They are a great example of how in today's modern football you can hire the right OC and get your act together in a single offseason.
It actually gives me hope going forward. I trust Petersen to make tough decisions if he has to at the end of this year. And if he does have to fire Babushka and he makes the right hire, it is entirely possible to get better in a hurry.
If much of it was Smith's fault, and Peterman waits until the end of year 2 to fire him, then that is inexcusable.
I honestly never imagined a QB being as truly awful as Cyler Miles was last year. Watch the Stanford game on coaches tape and you will see they basically never had to change their base defense because they knew Miles could not throw the ball over their heads.
We were so far behind the 8 ball at QB it was embarrassing. I feel bad for anyone that had to scheme an offense with that QB play.
He wore number 10 and played like the guy before him that wore number 10 did.
I'm surprised you're surprised.
If you honestly think Locker and Miles are comparable I suggest you just drink some bleach, or donate 20 Sven Bucks to DJ (ILTCHDJ)
It's a bit of an insult to Miles, but I stand by it:
A preemptive fuck off to @Tequilla. Same QB, mostly same players and TCU went from 88th in scoring to 2nd in one year. Boykin was largely seen as a great athlete but shitty QB. New coordinators, new scheme, new attitude and he finishes 2nd in the Heisman. I've been on record saying this offensive system sucks and I openly question whether Petersen knows what he's doing on that side of the ball.
We lament about the talent, and it's not ideal, but the scheme matters. We've also said the head coach is all that matters, but I disagree. A position coach doesn't matter too much, but coordinator's do matter. Take advantage of the player's strength. Try and mask the weaknesses. Blaming it on the players didn't work for Ty, so why the fuck do poasters here do it for Peterman? I don't give a fuck who is playing for UW, finishing last in the conference is inexcusable. Not only should Smith have never been hired, he should have been fired for it. Even if he turns out to be decent, it's tough to imagine UW and a coach with Petersen's reputation couldn't do better.
Anyways, I thought this was an interesting read about a stunning improvement. The great coaches adapt and change when things are going downhill. Don James in the late 80's is the example at UW and Gary Patterson is another great example. Hopefully Petersen can do the same.
The offense is petes baby just like the defense is pattersons baby at tcu. Certain coaches have sides of the ball that they focus on most of the time. Patterson I think gives a lot more freedom to his offensive coordinator than his defense. I think Pete is the opposite and last year showed that he is not very imaginative nor did he hire someone who was.
As mediocre as bellotti was it was his proactive redefining of himself and reaching out for help that lead to him being less involved with the offense and hiring crowton and then chip Kelly (75k). Maybe Pete needs to take that approach. Another year like last year and I would say I am pretty sure that he is over his head or feels,zero urgency. This isn't the wac.
I get that nobody likes Bellotti but when he left Oregon he had a winning record vs every other team in the conference, even USC. And for the most part that was before the big Nike money really kicked in. He may not have been great but he was certainly better than mediocre. Hard as that is to swallow (cue blow job jokes now) it's true.
He was somewhere in between mediocre and good. Good enough to make you think he figured it out but also predictable enough that you know he wouldn't get over the top consistently.
14 years 4 losing records in conference One conference title 72-34 conference record
Anyways he knew there were smarter guys out there and tried to get them on his staff and deferred to them a lot of times.
Willing to let Smith work with a QB that is not Miley before I judge him. We should know very soon. Agree that we don't even need the whole year to figure it out.
I guess, but he never should have been hired to begin with. What a huge stretch that was.
That is a decent point. I think there is some room for concern with Pete's choice of OC.
Looking at who Petersen's Previous OC's:
Harsin: No prior OC experience, Boise had its best years under his tenure. He was OC from 2006-2010. Now their head coach.
(side note: Moore played from 2008-2011)
Pease: OC in 2011. Did well his one year in Boise (with senior Kellen Moore), then joined the Muschamp shitshow at Florida, so its difficult to say how good of an OC he is. He does seem polarizing to prior players. Had prior OC experience (Montana, NAU, Kentucky, Baylor). Now back with Pete as a WR coach, it seems Pete highly values his inner circle.
Prince: OC from 2012-2013. Statistically the team did okay in 2012, but the offense was not very good in 2013. Boise fans did not think highly of him. Was in the NFL as a position coach prior to his stint in Boise. Now with the Detroit Lions as a WR coach.
Good post. It's not about getting a "proven" OC. It's about results. TCU hired two WR coaches. But they were coaches from good offenses. If UW were to hire a position coach from Baylor or Auburn I would probably be intrigued. I would even prefer it to hiring a proven guy like Nuss or whoever else bounces from big school to big school.
Smith was the QB coach of average offenses. Petersen obviously saw something in him, and like you said, he values his inner circle. If any other school in the PAC 12 promoted a QB coach from an average offensive team from the MWC, it would be a head scratcher. You guys would have a field day if Sark did something like that.
We've also said the head coach is all that matters, but I disagree.
Well you're wrong. The issues you pointed out are symptoms of the head coach making a bad hiring decision. It all starts and ends with the head coach. Bad coordinators are on the head coach. It's not Smith's fault he is a bad OC (we'll assume you're right on that point) - it's Petersen's fault for hiring him.
The script says that you can't criticize a Husky head coach at least until after Year 2 is over.
Especially one that was 92-12 before his arrival with so called similar resources to his competition.
We've also said the head coach is all that matters, but I disagree.
Well you're wrong. The issues you pointed out are symptoms of the head coach making a bad hiring decision. It all starts and ends with the head coach. Bad coordinators are on the head coach. It's not Smith's fault he is a bad OC (we'll assume you're right on that point) - it's Petersen's fault for hiring him.
The script says that you can't criticize a Husky head coach at least until after Year 2 is over.
Especially one that was 92-12 before his arrival with so called similar resources to his competition.
LIPO as always.
15 games is typically a good bench mark. We'll learn a lot at Boise State. If UW is blown out and wholly uncompetitive, sound the alarms.
Fair warning, TL, DR in advance. I will keep this as short as possible. For those that skim, pay attention to the bolded/italicized portion.
It's fair to say that I've got a little frooog in me ... fuck off in advance @RoadDawg55 but thanks for starting this thread because there is a lot of what I see right now in Washington to what I saw in TCU going back to the 2012 and 2013 seasons as they entered the Big 12.
Going back to 2003 when I was first introduced really to TCU football and the genius of Gary Patterson, it was fairly clear that he knew what he was doing. They coaxed a 10-0 start to the season while rotating 2 QBs (starter of the season was frooog legend Tye Gunn before he got hurt 2x and the backup came in). They ended up the season losing to Boise St in a bowl game in Ft Worth ... which was also my first real introduction to Boise and at the time Offensive Coordinator Chris Petersen.
From 2003 to 2012, TCU gradually built up its talent base as its prestige and success mounted. What started with developing some real diamonds in the rough turned into getting the choice of the kids that were originally overlooked by some of the bigger schools in the area combined with player development.
In 2008, TCU went 11-2 with a sophomore QB named Andy Dalton. Their only losses on the year were a 35-10 loss @ an Oklahoma team that lost in the national championship game to Florida and 13-10 road loss to a 13-0 Utah team that beat SEC!!! power Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. TCU beat a 12-0 Boise team in a bowl game 17-16 ... a game that stood out to me because of how much TCU dominated the game, had better athletes, etc., yet somehow Boise hung in the game. In fact, I remember having conversations with @CokeGreaterThanPepsi during that game to that fact.
In 2009, TCU went 12-0 during the regular season and got left out of the National Championship game picture as the #3 team in the country behind Alabama and Texas (Texas had to kick a 46 yard FG as time expired to beat Nebraska in the Big 12 title game). Their reward for that was more or less a slap in the face by making them play Boise again in the Fiesta Bowl. It was a sloppy game really by both teams but Boise pulled out a few tricks from the Petersen bag of tricks (fake punt, etc.) that worked like a charm and got Boise the 17-10 victory.
In 2010, TCU played with a bit of a chip on their shoulder, went undefeated, got a legit game this time in the Rose Bowl against Wisconsin and won. Sort of validated the run that they had made.
The 2011 season was a bit of a transition season in that there was a new promising QB in Casey Pachall and the mid-season announcement of moving to the Big 12 during the conference realignment fever that went on during that time. Boise had also moved into the MWC at that point and TCU won at Boise.
As TCU climbed the ladder during this run, they began getting better and better players. However, as they were still in the MWC, some of these players had red flags on them that were having them fall off the radar of the top schools. Patterson being one of those coaches that feels like he could straighten any kid out probably took chances on a few guys that he couldn't. During the offseason of 2012, the following happened: http://espn.go.com/ncf/story/_/id/7577881/tcu-horned-frogs-football-players-arrested-drug-sweep which is a major contributor to the arrest record on the thread regarding schools with the most arrests in the last however many years that the Cougs lead. Also during this time period, as TCU moved into the Big 12 and opened up some recruiting doors that were not there before, there became more noise about higher end recruits visiting TCU, seeing the drug culture that was in place, and deciding to go elsewhere. These events led Patterson to really cleanse the program from some of the bigger problems and take a far more active role in curbing the behaviors.
In 2012, TCUs first year in the Big 12, TCU started the season 5-1. At the end of this stretch, Pachall "left" school for the rest of the semester to enter into rehab and was replaced by a freshman named Trevone Boykin. TCU finished the rest of the regular season 2-4 (with losses in 3OT, @ #3 KState, and by 7 at home to Oklahoma). They lost a bowl game to Michigan State by a point.
For 2013, Pachall returned to the program and was the established starting QB. To get Boykin's athleticism on the field, he moved to WR at the beginning of the year. Pachall got hurt early in the season and it completely screwed up the entire season as there wasn't an adequate backup QB situation established. Boykin got moved back to QB after the injury but predictably wasn't prepared as he wasn't taking enough snaps or reps during the camp and the season. TCU went 4-8 on the year and 2-7 in conference. On the surface, this was a terrible year ... but if you looked below the surface, you saw a reason for optimism. In conference, they averaged only 19 points per game (many of the higher point totals came after Pachall came back later in the year healthy). Defensively, which has been pointed out as Patterson's calling card, they averaged giving up just under 26 points per game. As we saw last year with Miley Cyrus as QB, when you have an offense that isn't giving you much to work with, it can be a challenge to maintain a solid defense without the damn eventually breaking.
Heading into 2014, TCU got a 5th year senior transfer QB from Texas A&M that was SUPPOSED to be the guy. However Boykin beat him out during camp. New coordinators were brought in to fix some of the offensive shortcomings (but in my mind, really to straighten out and normalize the QB play - which was really only an issue for TCU in 2012-2013 as the play really fell off from Pachall - for those not familiar with Pachall as a QB, think Cody Pickett). Last year I think most know about how successful TCU was offensively and that's setting the stage for 2015.
The topic that isn't getting talked about much for TCU heading into 2015 is not only the number of returning starters that they have, but how many of them are seniors. Remember that the rumors of TCU heading into the Big 12 started in the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes. Essentially, what TCU is experiencing right now is the uptick in the advancements of their recruiting combined with their traditionally strong player development. When you compare that to Washington, Petersen's getting an uptick in players that he's able to recruit compared to Boise and will be combining that with strong player development.
So why did I go through all of that history of TCU over the last 10 years? It's because it is very similar to what Petersen went through at Boise and I find it beyond coincidental the number of times that TCU and Boise crossed paths over the last 10 years with the overwhelming conclusion being that the difference in the programs (at least before TCU moved into the Big 12) was very slim. From a recruiting standpoint, you'd expect that TCU had slightly better players over that time frame than Boise did yet Boise played them toe to toe. I, and many on this board, have a very strong opinion of Patterson as a coach. It was impossible for me to not share that same opinion of Petersen the coach as a result.
While Petersen probably inherited a similar base (with a few higher end players) at Washington last year as what Patterson probably had to work with in the 2012-2013 time period, there's some key areas that are worth noting:
First, below average QB play sunk TCU its first two years in the Big 12 and play well below their capabilities. In fact, a common commentary that I would hear was that TCU lacked the players to play in the Big 12 (even though their historical record playing power conference teams spoke for itself and disproved the theory). Last year, it's very easy to find at least 3 games (excluding the bowl game) on Washington's schedule (Stanford, Arizona, and Arizona St) where the deficiencies at QB did not directly contribute to the loss. That's the difference right there between an 8-5 regular season and an 11-2 regular season. Very different narrative if you switch those games heading into this season.
Second, the path that TCU has shown over the last 3+ years from getting the pickup in Big 12 recruiting combined with player development is a key measuring stick for where Washington is at. The 2012 season for TCU mirrors the 2014 season for UW in my mind. Subpar QB play bringing down a strong supporting cast. Play a lot of close games that turn into some losses. Leave the season with the feeling that you could/should have done more. In 2013, TCU's QB problems completely get exposed and the youth on the roster went through some growing pains. I fully expect that this will be the case for Washington in 2015. As you look through Washington's 2 deeps, you're going to see a situation you have a number of young starters (notably on both sides of the lines) that have talent but are going to give uneven performances. We should expect to see some uneven performances from the QB position during the year (particularly so if it is Browning) but the reps will be vital to long term performance. We should also expect to see Washington play its best football to close out the 2015 season. Chest has already called out the Arizona State game as a potential upset for us and I agree 100% with that ... and again the 2013 TCU season is a great guide for us. TCU's last 4 games in 2013 included a 3 point OT loss to West Virginia, a win at Iowa State, a 2 point loss at KState on a last second FG, and a 3 point home loss to a Top 10 Baylor team.
Finally, the path of TCU as they've grown into a more mature team (very veteran defense in 2014, very veteran offense in 2015) is exactly what we should expect to see out of Washington in the 2016-2018 time period. Moreover, if you look at TCU's recruiting at this point it's extremely strong as they are benefiting from their success. It's what we should continue to expect out of Petersen at Washington if he is following a similar blue print.
This year will absolutely be tough at times. The offense may struggle at times. I think the jury is still out on Smith as the OC. We need to see some improvement this year or I do think Petersen needs to strongly consider shaking up his staff a bit. Patterson was very loyal to his staff and still is. However, he also made the moves that he has had to make when the results were not up to par. Pete may be faced with this in the offseason. But seeing what I've seen with TCU, knowing the talent that they had, saying before last season that I thought that they had a real strong shot to win the Big 12 IF they got solid QB play (which they did) gives me strong optimism that the same could be in store for Washington. I see a number of similarities between the situations (and I haven't even got into the general regressions in prior powers Oklahoma and Texas that has also aided TCU and what I think could very well be some regression coming for Oregon and Stanford). IF we can get through this year, then I think we'll be well positioned going forward. This year is going to require patience. It's going to require looking at things beyond the box score and seeing the big picture. There will be a tipping point coming in this program in the near future. It probably won't be this year. For TCU, the tipping point was beating Oklahoma last year to let them know that they really had turned the corner. For Washington that tipping point may be a November game this year or an early 2016 game. But when you see it, you'll know it.
Willing to let Smith work with a QB that is not Miley before I judge him. We should know very soon. Agree that we don't even need the whole year to figure it out.
The guys had more the Cyler wtf? Counting Browning these guys have had 5 high school AAs to work with in a very short time...you can't make this shit up...no way all 5 kids suck? They should at least look competive and last year they weren't I expect this year to be even worse.Nic Holt terrible on offense we don't need 3-4 years to figure it out its right in front of us
Willing to let Smith work with a QB that is not Miley before I judge him. We should know very soon. Agree that we don't even need the whole year to figure it out.
The guys had more the Cyler wtf? Counting Browning these guys have had 5 high school AAs to work with in a very short time...you can't make this shit up...no way all 5 kids suck? They should at least look competive and last year they weren't I expect this year to be even worse.Nic Holt terrible on offense we don't need 3-4 years to figure it out its right in front of us
Mildly disagree with this ...
Miles was relatively accurate (at least protected the ball) and had a noodle arm.
Lindy and Williams had stronger arms but ran the risk of creating numerous turnovers.
With the defense we had last year, playing to our strength (defense) was the right call.
The difference between 8-5 for the regular season and 11-2 was very, very small.
Agree that there's reason to question whether or not playing Lindy or Williams all year would have produced BETTER results. But to act like any of the QBs that were in place last year was significantly better than Miles doesn't bear out with performance on the field. High School AA QBs fail in college from time to time ... and given that you could argue that the quality of their development under the previous coaching staff was somewhere between non-existent and under par, it's hard to throw this all on the feet of Smith. That's why this is a very telling year for Smith to show that with a QB with either better tools (Browning) or a year of development (Lindy), that the offense can be better.
Well I'm sure as hell not blaming Sark? That guy may not be a great head coach but you can not argue he gets the most out of his QBs! The guy turned KP into a record setting QB,if Sark can look competive with KP there is no way Pete/Smith can't get one,just one of the 5 all Americans to at least finsih somewhere other than DFL in the conference
Fair warning, TL, DR in advance. I will keep this as short as possible. For those that skim, pay attention to the bolded/italicized portion.
It's fair to say that I've got a little frooog in me ... fuck off in advance @RoadDawg55 but thanks for starting this thread because there is a lot of what I see right now in Washington to what I saw in TCU going back to the 2012 and 2013 seasons as they entered the Big 12.
Going back to 2003 when I was first introduced really to TCU football and the genius of Gary Patterson, it was fairly clear that he knew what he was doing. They coaxed a 10-0 start to the season while rotating 2 QBs (starter of the season was frooog legend Tye Gunn before he got hurt 2x and the backup came in). They ended up the season losing to Boise St in a bowl game in Ft Worth ... which was also my first real introduction to Boise and at the time Offensive Coordinator Chris Petersen.
From 2003 to 2012, TCU gradually built up its talent base as its prestige and success mounted. What started with developing some real diamonds in the rough turned into getting the choice of the kids that were originally overlooked by some of the bigger schools in the area combined with player development.
In 2008, TCU went 11-2 with a sophomore QB named Andy Dalton. Their only losses on the year were a 35-10 loss @ an Oklahoma team that lost in the national championship game to Florida and 13-10 road loss to a 13-0 Utah team that beat SEC!!! power Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. TCU beat a 12-0 Boise team in a bowl game 17-16 ... a game that stood out to me because of how much TCU dominated the game, had better athletes, etc., yet somehow Boise hung in the game. In fact, I remember having conversations with @CokeGreaterThanPepsi during that game to that fact.
In 2009, TCU went 12-0 during the regular season and got left out of the National Championship game picture as the #3 team in the country behind Alabama and Texas (Texas had to kick a 46 yard FG as time expired to beat Nebraska in the Big 12 title game). Their reward for that was more or less a slap in the face by making them play Boise again in the Fiesta Bowl. It was a sloppy game really by both teams but Boise pulled out a few tricks from the Petersen bag of tricks (fake punt, etc.) that worked like a charm and got Boise the 17-10 victory.
In 2010, TCU played with a bit of a chip on their shoulder, went undefeated, got a legit game this time in the Rose Bowl against Wisconsin and won. Sort of validated the run that they had made.
The 2011 season was a bit of a transition season in that there was a new promising QB in Casey Pachall and the mid-season announcement of moving to the Big 12 during the conference realignment fever that went on during that time. Boise had also moved into the MWC at that point and TCU won at Boise.
As TCU climbed the ladder during this run, they began getting better and better players. However, as they were still in the MWC, some of these players had red flags on them that were having them fall off the radar of the top schools. Patterson being one of those coaches that feels like he could straighten any kid out probably took chances on a few guys that he couldn't. During the offseason of 2012, the following happened: http://espn.go.com/ncf/story/_/id/7577881/tcu-horned-frogs-football-players-arrested-drug-sweep which is a major contributor to the arrest record on the thread regarding schools with the most arrests in the last however many years that the Cougs lead. Also during this time period, as TCU moved into the Big 12 and opened up some recruiting doors that were not there before, there became more noise about higher end recruits visiting TCU, seeing the drug culture that was in place, and deciding to go elsewhere. These events led Patterson to really cleanse the program from some of the bigger problems and take a far more active role in curbing the behaviors.
In 2012, TCUs first year in the Big 12, TCU started the season 5-1. At the end of this stretch, Pachall "left" school for the rest of the semester to enter into rehab and was replaced by a freshman named Trevone Boykin. TCU finished the rest of the regular season 2-4 (with losses in 3OT, @ #3 KState, and by 7 at home to Oklahoma). They lost a bowl game to Michigan State by a point.
For 2013, Pachall returned to the program and was the established starting QB. To get Boykin's athleticism on the field, he moved to WR at the beginning of the year. Pachall got hurt early in the season and it completely screwed up the entire season as there wasn't an adequate backup QB situation established. Boykin got moved back to QB after the injury but predictably wasn't prepared as he wasn't taking enough snaps or reps during the camp and the season. TCU went 4-8 on the year and 2-7 in conference. On the surface, this was a terrible year ... but if you looked below the surface, you saw a reason for optimism. In conference, they averaged only 19 points per game (many of the higher point totals came after Pachall came back later in the year healthy). Defensively, which has been pointed out as Patterson's calling card, they averaged giving up just under 26 points per game. As we saw last year with Miley Cyrus as QB, when you have an offense that isn't giving you much to work with, it can be a challenge to maintain a solid defense without the damn eventually breaking.
Heading into 2014, TCU got a 5th year senior transfer QB from Texas A&M that was SUPPOSED to be the guy. However Boykin beat him out during camp. New coordinators were brought in to fix some of the offensive shortcomings (but in my mind, really to straighten out and normalize the QB play - which was really only an issue for TCU in 2012-2013 as the play really fell off from Pachall - for those not familiar with Pachall as a QB, think Cody Pickett). Last year I think most know about how successful TCU was offensively and that's setting the stage for 2015.
The topic that isn't getting talked about much for TCU heading into 2015 is not only the number of returning starters that they have, but how many of them are seniors. Remember that the rumors of TCU heading into the Big 12 started in the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes. Essentially, what TCU is experiencing right now is the uptick in the advancements of their recruiting combined with their traditionally strong player development. When you compare that to Washington, Petersen's getting an uptick in players that he's able to recruit compared to Boise and will be combining that with strong player development.
So why did I go through all of that history of TCU over the last 10 years? It's because it is very similar to what Petersen went through at Boise and I find it beyond coincidental the number of times that TCU and Boise crossed paths over the last 10 years with the overwhelming conclusion being that the difference in the programs (at least before TCU moved into the Big 12) was very slim. From a recruiting standpoint, you'd expect that TCU had slightly better players over that time frame than Boise did yet Boise played them toe to toe. I, and many on this board, have a very strong opinion of Patterson as a coach. It was impossible for me to not share that same opinion of Petersen the coach as a result.
While Petersen probably inherited a similar base (with a few higher end players) at Washington last year as what Patterson probably had to work with in the 2012-2013 time period, there's some key areas that are worth noting:
First, below average QB play sunk TCU its first two years in the Big 12 and play well below their capabilities. In fact, a common commentary that I would hear was that TCU lacked the players to play in the Big 12 (even though their historical record playing power conference teams spoke for itself and disproved the theory). Last year, it's very easy to find at least 3 games (excluding the bowl game) on Washington's schedule (Stanford, Arizona, and Arizona St) where the deficiencies at QB did not directly contribute to the loss. That's the difference right there between an 8-5 regular season and an 11-2 regular season. Very different narrative if you switch those games heading into this season.
Second, the path that TCU has shown over the last 3+ years from getting the pickup in Big 12 recruiting combined with player development is a key measuring stick for where Washington is at. The 2012 season for TCU mirrors the 2014 season for UW in my mind. Subpar QB play bringing down a strong supporting cast. Play a lot of close games that turn into some losses. Leave the season with the feeling that you could/should have done more. In 2013, TCU's QB problems completely get exposed and the youth on the roster went through some growing pains. I fully expect that this will be the case for Washington in 2015. As you look through Washington's 2 deeps, you're going to see a situation you have a number of young starters (notably on both sides of the lines) that have talent but are going to give uneven performances. We should expect to see some uneven performances from the QB position during the year (particularly so if it is Browning) but the reps will be vital to long term performance. We should also expect to see Washington play its best football to close out the 2015 season. Chest has already called out the Arizona State game as a potential upset for us and I agree 100% with that ... and again the 2013 TCU season is a great guide for us. TCU's last 4 games in 2013 included a 3 point OT loss to West Virginia, a win at Iowa State, a 2 point loss at KState on a last second FG, and a 3 point home loss to a Top 10 Baylor team.
Finally, the path of TCU as they've grown into a more mature team (very veteran defense in 2014, very veteran offense in 2015) is exactly what we should expect to see out of Washington in the 2016-2018 time period. Moreover, if you look at TCU's recruiting at this point it's extremely strong as they are benefiting from their success. It's what we should continue to expect out of Petersen at Washington if he is following a similar blue print.
This year will absolutely be tough at times. The offense may struggle at times. I think the jury is still out on Smith as the OC. We need to see some improvement this year or I do think Petersen needs to strongly consider shaking up his staff a bit. Patterson was very loyal to his staff and still is. However, he also made the moves that he has had to make when the results were not up to par. Pete may be faced with this in the offseason. But seeing what I've seen with TCU, knowing the talent that they had, saying before last season that I thought that they had a real strong shot to win the Big 12 IF they got solid QB play (which they did) gives me strong optimism that the same could be in store for Washington. I see a number of similarities between the situations (and I haven't even got into the general regressions in prior powers Oklahoma and Texas that has also aided TCU and what I think could very well be some regression coming for Oregon and Stanford). IF we can get through this year, then I think we'll be well positioned going forward. This year is going to require patience. It's going to require looking at things beyond the box score and seeing the big picture. There will be a tipping point coming in this program in the near future. It probably won't be this year. For TCU, the tipping point was beating Oklahoma last year to let them know that they really had turned the corner. For Washington that tipping point may be a November game this year or an early 2016 game. But when you see it, you'll know it.
The problem with blaming it all on Miles is that there were 3 QB's and they all played bad. Then there were other concerning things that have very little to nothing to do with Miles being a bad QB.
Anyone remember the two minute offense against UCLA? We run a no huddle to begin with. They should be able to look to the sidelines, line up, and get plays off quickly. Why was the offense slower than ever at a time they needed urgency? Most teams run their two minute offense everyday at practice. It was strange.
Miles looked less comfortable the last two games than in his early starts. If his hip issue is legit, it could explain some of it.
The running game was shit from when Pac 12 play began until Shaq took the job. It did get better though, so I guess it's a positive.
It was bad coaching and bad QB play. Same as it was for TCU in 2013. There is a reason Gary Patterson brought in new offensive coaches.
I'm not willing to say that Smith was the complete explanation for 2014 ... but he has a lot to prove in 2015. Improvement should be expected.
Honestly, it's unfair to really use the rationale that Patterson saw a terrible 2013 and pulled the trigger. It was a subpar 2012 combined with an unprepared contingency plan in 2013 that led to it. It was a 2 year effect. If we see similar from Smith in 2015, we should be expecting similar.
Willing to let Smith work with a QB that is not Miley before I judge him. We should know very soon. Agree that we don't even need the whole year to figure it out.
The guys had more the Cyler wtf? Counting Browning these guys have had 5 high school AAs to work with in a very short time...you can't make this shit up...no way all 5 kids suck? They should at least look competive and last year they weren't I expect this year to be even worse.Nic Holt terrible on offense we don't need 3-4 years to figure it out its right in front of us
Mildly disagree with this ...
Miles was relatively accurate (at least protected the ball) and had a noodle arm.
Lindy and Williams had stronger arms but ran the risk of creating numerous turnovers.
With the defense we had last year, playing to our strength (defense) was the right call.
The difference between 8-5 for the regular season and 11-2 was very, very small.
Agree that there's reason to question whether or not playing Lindy or Williams all year would have produced BETTER results. But to act like any of the QBs that were in place last year was significantly better than Miles doesn't bear out with performance on the field. High School AA QBs fail in college from time to time ... and given that you could argue that the quality of their development under the previous coaching staff was somewhere between non-existent and under par, it's hard to throw this all on the feet of Smith. That's why this is a very telling year for Smith to show that with a QB with either better tools (Browning) or a year of development (Lindy), that the offense can be better.
Steve Sarkisian agrees. Teams lose close games sometimes. We also were lucky to beat Hawaii.
Willing to let Smith work with a QB that is not Miley before I judge him. We should know very soon. Agree that we don't even need the whole year to figure it out.
The guys had more the Cyler wtf? Counting Browning these guys have had 5 high school AAs to work with in a very short time...you can't make this shit up...no way all 5 kids suck? They should at least look competive and last year they weren't I expect this year to be even worse.Nic Holt terrible on offense we don't need 3-4 years to figure it out its right in front of us
Mildly disagree with this ...
Miles was relatively accurate (at least protected the ball) and had a noodle arm.
Lindy and Williams had stronger arms but ran the risk of creating numerous turnovers.
With the defense we had last year, playing to our strength (defense) was the right call.
The difference between 8-5 for the regular season and 11-2 was very, very small.
Agree that there's reason to question whether or not playing Lindy or Williams all year would have produced BETTER results. But to act like any of the QBs that were in place last year was significantly better than Miles doesn't bear out with performance on the field. High School AA QBs fail in college from time to time ... and given that you could argue that the quality of their development under the previous coaching staff was somewhere between non-existent and under par, it's hard to throw this all on the feet of Smith. That's why this is a very telling year for Smith to show that with a QB with either better tools (Browning) or a year of development (Lindy), that the offense can be better.
Steve Sarkisian agrees. Teams lose close games sometimes. We also were lucky to beat Hawaii.
Wouldn't you agree that if the crux of my argument about the difference between 8-5 and 11-2 being slightly better QB play ... wouldn't the "lucky to beat Hawaii" part of the equation fall away?
The only way that that could enter the equation in my mind would be if there was a game where we won BECAUSE OF higher caliber QB than I'm projecting. I can't think of a single game where the difference between winning/losing was directly tied to play of the QB.
RoadDawg and TL;DR are going to have to fuck very very soon before Vanilla implodes from all the dick slap fighting. At the Taki Tiki perhaps? I'll take pics, Sven will turn them into Lemon Party look alikes, and we can launch the all new "Butler Cabin Higher Discussion Members Only Jacket" bored with the nudes.
Well I'm sure as hell not blaming Sark? That guy may not be a great head coach but you can not argue he gets the most out of his QBs! The guy turned KP into a record setting QB,if Sark can look competive with KP there is no way Pete/Smith can't get one,just one of the 5 all Americans to at least finsih somewhere other than DFL in the conference
If you came here to beat your chest and claim Sark was a great developer of talent, you won't last long.
Onyo haki, TL, DR mapema. Nitaendelea hii kama mfupi iwezekanavyo. Kwa wale ambao skim, makini na bolded / herufi za mlazo fungu.
Ni haki ya kusema kwamba mimi nimepata frooog kidogo katika me ... kutomba mbali mapema @ RoadDawg55 lakini shukrani kwa ajili ya kuanza thread hii kwa sababu kuna mengi ya nini naona sasa hivi mjini Washington kwa nini nikaona katika TCU kurejea 2012 na 2013 misimu kama waliingia Big 12.
Kurejea 2003 wakati mimi ilianzisha mara ya kwanza kwa kweli kwa TCU mpira wa miguu na fikra ya Gary Patterson, ilikuwa haki wazi kwamba alijua nini alikuwa akifanya. Wao coaxed 10-0 kuanza kwa msimu wakati kupokezana 2 QBs (starter ya msimu ilikuwa frooog hadithi Tye Gunn kabla wanajeruhiwa 2x na Backup walipoingia). Wao kuishia msimu kupoteza kwa Boise St katika bakuli mchezo Ft Worth ... ambao pia ulikuwa wa kweli yangu ya kwanza kuanzishwa kwa Boise na wakati huo Kuchukiza Mratibu Chris Petersen.
Kuanzia mwaka 2003 hadi 2012, TCU hatua kwa hatua kujengwa vipaji yake ya msingi kama heshima yake na mafanikio vyema. Nini ilianza na kuendeleza baadhi almasi halisi katika mbaya akageuka katika kupata uchaguzi wa watoto kwamba walikuwa awali kupuuzwa na baadhi ya shule makubwa katika eneo pamoja na mchezaji maendeleo.
Mwaka 2008, TCU akaenda 11-2 na sophomore QB aitwaye Andy Dalton. Hasara zao tu kwa mwaka walikuwa 35-10 hasara @ Oklahoma timu hiyo waliopotea katika taifa mchezo michuano kwa Florida na hasara 13-10 barabara ya 13-0 Utah timu hiyo kuwapiga SEC !!! nguvu Alabama katika Sugar Bowl. TCU kuwapiga 12-0 Boise timu katika bakuli mchezo 17-16 ... mchezo waliosimama nje kwangu kwa sababu ya TCU kiasi gani inaongozwa mchezo, alikuwa wanariadha bora, nk, lakini kwa namna fulani Boise Hung katika mchezo. Kwa kweli, Nakumbuka kuwa na mazungumzo naCokeGreaterThanPepsi wakati wa kuwa mchezo na ukweli kwamba.
Mwaka 2009, TCU akaenda 12-0 wakati wa msimu wa mara kwa mara na got kushoto nje ya michuano ya Taifa mchezo picha kama # 3 timu nchini humo nyuma Alabama na Texas (Texas alikuwa mateke 46 yadi FG kama wakati muda wake kuwapiga Nebraska katika Big 12 cheo mchezo). Malipo yao kwa kuwa ilikuwa zaidi au chini kofi katika uso kwa kuwafanya kucheza Boise tena katika Fiesta bakuli. Ilikuwa ni mchezo sloppy kweli na timu zote mbili lakini Boise kujiondoa tricks chache kutoka Petersen mfuko wa tricks (punt bandia, nk) kwamba alifanya kazi kama charm na got Boise ushindi 17-10.
Mwaka 2010, TCU alicheza na kidogo ya Chip juu ya bega yao, akaenda undefeated, got mchezo legit wakati huu katika bakuli Rose dhidi Wisconsin na alishinda. Aina ya Ilisahihishwa kukimbia waliyoifanya.
Msimu 2011 ilikuwa kidogo ya mpito msimu katika kuwa kulikuwa na mpya kuahidi QB katika Casey Pachall na katikati ya msimu kutangazwa kwa kuhamia Big 12 wakati wa mkutano wa kufanya mageuzi hayo homa kwamba aliendelea wakati huo. Boise alikuwa pia kuhamia katika MWC katika hatua hiyo na TCU alishinda katika Boise.
Kama TCU akapanda ngazi wakati kukimbia hii, walianza kupata wachezaji bora na bora. Hata hivyo, kama bado walikuwa katika MWC, baadhi ya wachezaji hao walikuwa na bendera nyekundu kwa hao walikuwa kuwa nao kuanguka mbali rada ya shule za juu. Patterson kuwa mmoja wa makocha hao anahisi kama angeweza kunyoosha mtoto yeyote nje pengine alichukua nafasi kwenye guys chache ambazo hakuweza. Wakati wa offseason ya 2012, zifuatazo kilichotokea: http://espn.go.com/ncf/story/_/id/7577881/tcu-horned-frogs-football-players-arrested-drug-sweep ambayo ni mchango mkubwa kukamatwa na rekodi juu ya thread kuhusu shule zenye kukamatwa zaidi katika kipindi cha miaka hata hivyo mengi ambayo Cougs kuongoza. Pia katika kipindi wakati huu, kama TCU kuhamia katika Big 12 na wazi juu ya baadhi ya milango ya kuajiri wale waliokuwa pale si kabla, kuna akawa kelele zaidi kuhusu mwisho kuajiri juu ya kutembelea TCU, kuona madawa ya kulevya utamaduni kwamba alikuwa mahali, na kuamua kwenda mahali pengine . Matukio haya kuongozwa Patterson kwa kweli kusafisha mpango kutoka kwa baadhi ya matatizo makubwa na kuchukua jukumu mbali kazi zaidi katika kupambana na tabia.
Mwaka 2012, TCUs mwaka wa kwanza katika Big 12, TCU kuanza msimu 5-1. Mwishoni mwa kunyoosha hii, Pachall "kushoto" shule ajili ya mapumziko ya muhula kuingia katika Rehab na nafasi yake kuchukuliwa na Freshman aitwaye Trevone BOYKIN. TCU kumaliza mapumziko ya msimu wa mara kwa mara 2-4 (kwa hasara katika 3OT, @ # 3 KState, na kwa 7 nyumbani kwa Oklahoma). Walipoteza bakuli mchezo wa Michigan State na uhakika.
Kwa mwaka 2013, Pachall alirejea mpango na alikuwa imara QB kuanzia. Kupata athleticism BOYKIN ya juu ya shamba, alihamia WR mwanzoni mwa mwaka. Pachall wanajeruhiwa mapema katika msimu na ni kabisa Star up msimu mzima kama kulikuwa na si ya kutosha Backup QB hali imara. BOYKIN got wakiongozwa nyuma QB baada ya kuumia lakini predictably hakuwa tayari alipokuwa si kuchukua snaps kutosha au reps wakati wa kambi na msimu. TCU alikwenda 4-8 katika mwaka na 2-7 katika mkutano huo. Juu ya uso, hii ilikuwa mwaka kutisha ... lakini kama wewe inaonekana chini ya uso, wewe aliona sababu kwa matumaini. Katika mkutano huo, wao wastani pointi 19 tu kwa kila mchezo (wengi wa juu hatua jumla ilikuja baada Pachall alirudi baadaye mwaka huu na afya). Kujitetea, ambayo imekuwa alisema kama Patterson wito kadi, wao wastani kuacha pointi chini ya 26 kwa kila mchezo. Kama tulivyoona mwaka jana na Miley Cyrus kama QB, wakati una kosa hilo si kutoa mengi ya kazi na, inaweza kuwa changamoto katika kudumisha ulinzi imara bila damn hatimaye kuvunja.
Viongozi ndani ya 2014, TCU got mwaka 5 uhamisho mwandamizi QB kutoka Texas A & M kwamba ilitakiwa kuwa guy. Hata hivyo BOYKIN kumpiga nje wakati kambini. New waratibu waliletwa kurekebisha baadhi ya mapungufu kukera (lakini katika mawazo yangu, kwa kweli kwa kunyoosha nje na kurejesha QB kucheza - ambayo alikuwa kweli tu suala kwa TCU katika 2012-2013 kama kucheza kweli ikaanguka kutoka katika Pachall - kwa wale wasiokuwa na uzoefu na Pachall kama QB, fikiria Cody Pickett). Mwaka jana Nadhani wengi kujua kuhusu jinsi ya mafanikio TCU ilikuwa kiuadui na kwamba kuweka hatua kwa 2015.
mada ambayo si kupata kuongelea sana kwa TCU viongozi ndani ya mwaka 2015 siyo tu idadi ya kurejea starters kwamba wana, lakini jinsi wengi wao ni wazee. Kumbuka kwamba uvumi wa TCU viongozi ndani ya Big 12 ulianza mwaka 2011 na 2012 madarasa kuajiri. Kimsingi, nini TCU inakabiliwa hivi sasa ni uptick katika maendeleo ya kuajiri yao pamoja na mchezaji maendeleo yao nzito ya jadi. Wakati kulinganisha kwamba kwa Washington, Petersen ya kupata uptick katika wachezaji kwamba yeye ni uwezo wa kuwaajiri ikilinganishwa na Boise na itakuwa kuchanganya kwamba pamoja na mchezaji maendeleo imara. </ I> </ b>
Hivyo kwa nini mimi kwenda kwa njia zote za kuwa historia ya TCU katika kipindi cha miaka 10 iliyopita? Ni kwa sababu ni sawa na kile Petersen safari kwa kupitia katika Boise na Mimi sioni ni zaidi ya coincidental idadi ya mara kwamba TCU na Boise walivuka njia zaidi ya miaka 10 iliyopita na hitimisho balaa ikiwa kwamba tofauti katika mipango (angalau kabla TCU kuhamia katika Big 12) alikuwa ndogo sana. Kutoka kuajiri upande, wewe d kutarajia kwamba TCU alikuwa wachezaji kidogo bora zaidi kwamba muda wa zaidi ya Boise walikuwa wakali Boise alicheza nao toe na toe. Mimi, na wengi kwenye bodi hii, kuwa na maoni kubwa sana ya Patterson kama kocha. Ilikuwa vigumu kwa mimi si kushiriki kwamba nia moja ya Petersen kocha kama matokeo.
Wakati Petersen pengine kurithi msingi sawa (na wachache wachezaji mwisho juu) katika Washington mwaka jana kama yale Patterson pengine alikuwa na kazi na katika kipindi 2012-2013 wakati, kuna baadhi ya maeneo muhimu ambayo ni muhimu kuzingatiya:
Kwanza, chini ya wastani QB kucheza imezama TCU kwanza miaka yake miwili katika Big 12 na kucheza vizuri chini ya uwezo wao. Kwa kweli, kawaida ufafanuzi kwamba napenda kusikia ni kwamba TCU walikosa wachezaji kucheza katika Big 12 (hata kama wao kihistoria rekodi ya kucheza mkutano nguvu timu alizungumza kwa yenyewe na disproved nadharia). Mwaka jana, ni rahisi sana kupata michezo angalau 3 (ukiondoa mchezo bakuli) juu ya ratiba ya Washington (Stanford, Arizona, na Arizona St) ambapo upungufu katika QB hakuwa moja kwa moja kuchangia kupoteza. Hiyo ni tofauti kati ya haki pale 8-5 mara kwa mara msimu na 11-2 mara kwa mara msimu. Hadithi tofauti sana kama wewe kubadili michezo wale viongozi ndani ya msimu huu.
Pili, njia ambayo TCU umeonyesha katika kipindi cha miaka 3 + mwisho kutoka kupata Pickup katika Big 12 kuajiri pamoja na mchezaji maendeleo ni fimbo ya kupimia muhimu kwa ajili ambapo Washington ni katika. Msimu 2012 kwa ajili ya TCU vioo msimu 2014 kwa ajili ya UW katika mawazo yangu. Subpar QB kucheza kuleta chini kali kusaidia kutupwa. Kucheza mengi ya michezo karibu kwamba kurejea katika baadhi ya hasara. Kuondoka msimu na hisia kwamba unaweza / inapaswa wamefanya zaidi. Mwaka 2013, matatizo TCU ya QB kabisa kupata wazi na vijana juu ya orodha ya majina safari kwa kupitia baadhi maumivu kuongezeka. Mimi kikamilifu kutarajia kwamba hii itakuwa kesi kwa ajili ya Washington katika 2015. Kama wewe kuangalia njia ya Washington 2 vilindi, wewe ni kwenda kuona hali una idadi ya starters vijana (hasa katika pande zote za mistari) kwamba wana vipaji lakini ni kwenda kutoa maonyesho kutofautiana. Tunapaswa kutarajia kuona baadhi maonyesho kutofautiana kutoka nafasi QB katika mwaka (hasa hivyo kama ni Browning) lakini reps itakuwa muhimu kwa utendaji muda mrefu. Tunapaswa pia wanatarajia kuona Washington kucheza mpira bora kuifunga nje msimu 2015. Kifua tayari kuitwa nje Arizona State mchezo kama upset uwezo kwa ajili yetu na nakubaliana 100% na kwamba ... na tena 2013 TCU msimu ni mwongozo kubwa kwa ajili yetu. Michezo iliyopita TCU ya 4 mwaka 2013 ni pamoja na 3 hatua OT hasara kwa West Virginia, kushinda katika jimbo la Iowa, 2 hatua hasara katika KState juu ya mwisho wa pili FG, na 3 hatua nyumbani hasara kwa Top 10 Baylor timu.
Hatimaye, njia ya TCU kama wameweza imeongezeka katika timu kukomaa zaidi (upande wa utetezi mkongwe sana mwaka 2014, mkongwe sana kosa mwaka 2015) ni nini hasa tunapaswa kutarajia kuona nje ya Washington katika kipindi 2016-2018 wakati. Aidha, kama ukiangalia katika kuajiri TCU ya katika hatua hii ni kubwa mno na nguvu kama wao ni kunufaika na mafanikio yao. Ni nini tunapaswa kuendelea kutegemea nje ya Petersen katika Washington kama yeye ni kufuatia sawa magazeti ya bluu.
Mwaka huu utakuwa kabisa kuwa ngumu wakati mwingine. kosa inaweza mapambano mara kwa mara. Nadhani jury bado nje ya Smith kama OC. Tunataka kuona baadhi ya maboresho mwaka huu au nadhani Petersen inahitaji sana kufikiria kutikisa up fimbo yake kidogo. Patterson alikuwa mwaminifu sana kwa wafanyakazi wake na bado ni. Hata hivyo, pia alifanya hatua kwamba yeye amekuwa kufanya wakati matokeo yalikuwa si hadi par. Pete inaweza kuwa wanakabiliwa na hii katika offseason. Lakini kuona nini nimeona na TCU, kujua vipaji kwamba walikuwa wakisema kabla ya msimu uliopita kwamba nilifikiri kwamba walikuwa risasi halisi nguvu kushinda Big 12 kama got imara QB kucheza (ambayo walivyofanya) anitiaye nguvu matumaini kwamba hilo linaweza kuwa katika kuhifadhi kwa ajili Washington. Mimi naona idadi ya yanayofanana kati ya hali (na mimi si hata got katika regressions ujumla katika madaraka kabla Oklahoma na Texas kwamba pia wasaidiwe TCU na nini nadhani inaweza vizuri sana kuwa baadhi regression kuja kwa ajili Oregon na Stanford). Kama tunaweza kupata kupitia mwaka huu, nafikiri tutaweza kuwa katika nafasi nzuri ya kwenda mbele. Mwaka huu ni kwenda zinahitaji uvumilivu. Itakuja kuhitaji kuangalia mambo zaidi ya alama sanduku na kuona picha kubwa. Kutakuwa na kitovu kuja katika mpango huu katika siku za usoni. Ni pengine kuwa mwaka huu. Kwa TCU, kitovu ilikuwa kumpiga Oklahoma mwaka jana hadi wajue kwamba wao kweli akageuka kona. Kwa Washington kwamba kitovu inaweza kuwa Novemba mchezo mwaka huu au mapema 2016 mchezo. Lakini wakati unaweza kuona hivyo, utasikia kujua.
Comments
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_Huskies_starting_quarterbacks
14 years
4 losing records in conference
One conference title
72-34 conference record
Anyways he knew there were smarter guys out there and tried to get them on his staff and deferred to them a lot of times.
Smith was the QB coach of average offenses. Petersen obviously saw something in him, and like you said, he values his inner circle. If any other school in the PAC 12 promoted a QB coach from an average offensive team from the MWC, it would be a head scratcher. You guys would have a field day if Sark did something like that.
Especially one that was 92-12 before his arrival with so called similar resources to his competition.
LIPO as always.
It's fair to say that I've got a little frooog in me ... fuck off in advance @RoadDawg55 but thanks for starting this thread because there is a lot of what I see right now in Washington to what I saw in TCU going back to the 2012 and 2013 seasons as they entered the Big 12.
Going back to 2003 when I was first introduced really to TCU football and the genius of Gary Patterson, it was fairly clear that he knew what he was doing. They coaxed a 10-0 start to the season while rotating 2 QBs (starter of the season was frooog legend Tye Gunn before he got hurt 2x and the backup came in). They ended up the season losing to Boise St in a bowl game in Ft Worth ... which was also my first real introduction to Boise and at the time Offensive Coordinator Chris Petersen.
From 2003 to 2012, TCU gradually built up its talent base as its prestige and success mounted. What started with developing some real diamonds in the rough turned into getting the choice of the kids that were originally overlooked by some of the bigger schools in the area combined with player development.
In 2008, TCU went 11-2 with a sophomore QB named Andy Dalton. Their only losses on the year were a 35-10 loss @ an Oklahoma team that lost in the national championship game to Florida and 13-10 road loss to a 13-0 Utah team that beat SEC!!! power Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. TCU beat a 12-0 Boise team in a bowl game 17-16 ... a game that stood out to me because of how much TCU dominated the game, had better athletes, etc., yet somehow Boise hung in the game. In fact, I remember having conversations with @CokeGreaterThanPepsi during that game to that fact.
In 2009, TCU went 12-0 during the regular season and got left out of the National Championship game picture as the #3 team in the country behind Alabama and Texas (Texas had to kick a 46 yard FG as time expired to beat Nebraska in the Big 12 title game). Their reward for that was more or less a slap in the face by making them play Boise again in the Fiesta Bowl. It was a sloppy game really by both teams but Boise pulled out a few tricks from the Petersen bag of tricks (fake punt, etc.) that worked like a charm and got Boise the 17-10 victory.
In 2010, TCU played with a bit of a chip on their shoulder, went undefeated, got a legit game this time in the Rose Bowl against Wisconsin and won. Sort of validated the run that they had made.
The 2011 season was a bit of a transition season in that there was a new promising QB in Casey Pachall and the mid-season announcement of moving to the Big 12 during the conference realignment fever that went on during that time. Boise had also moved into the MWC at that point and TCU won at Boise.
As TCU climbed the ladder during this run, they began getting better and better players. However, as they were still in the MWC, some of these players had red flags on them that were having them fall off the radar of the top schools. Patterson being one of those coaches that feels like he could straighten any kid out probably took chances on a few guys that he couldn't. During the offseason of 2012, the following happened: http://espn.go.com/ncf/story/_/id/7577881/tcu-horned-frogs-football-players-arrested-drug-sweep which is a major contributor to the arrest record on the thread regarding schools with the most arrests in the last however many years that the Cougs lead. Also during this time period, as TCU moved into the Big 12 and opened up some recruiting doors that were not there before, there became more noise about higher end recruits visiting TCU, seeing the drug culture that was in place, and deciding to go elsewhere. These events led Patterson to really cleanse the program from some of the bigger problems and take a far more active role in curbing the behaviors.
In 2012, TCUs first year in the Big 12, TCU started the season 5-1. At the end of this stretch, Pachall "left" school for the rest of the semester to enter into rehab and was replaced by a freshman named Trevone Boykin. TCU finished the rest of the regular season 2-4 (with losses in 3OT, @ #3 KState, and by 7 at home to Oklahoma). They lost a bowl game to Michigan State by a point.
For 2013, Pachall returned to the program and was the established starting QB. To get Boykin's athleticism on the field, he moved to WR at the beginning of the year. Pachall got hurt early in the season and it completely screwed up the entire season as there wasn't an adequate backup QB situation established. Boykin got moved back to QB after the injury but predictably wasn't prepared as he wasn't taking enough snaps or reps during the camp and the season. TCU went 4-8 on the year and 2-7 in conference. On the surface, this was a terrible year ... but if you looked below the surface, you saw a reason for optimism. In conference, they averaged only 19 points per game (many of the higher point totals came after Pachall came back later in the year healthy). Defensively, which has been pointed out as Patterson's calling card, they averaged giving up just under 26 points per game. As we saw last year with Miley Cyrus as QB, when you have an offense that isn't giving you much to work with, it can be a challenge to maintain a solid defense without the damn eventually breaking.
Heading into 2014, TCU got a 5th year senior transfer QB from Texas A&M that was SUPPOSED to be the guy. However Boykin beat him out during camp. New coordinators were brought in to fix some of the offensive shortcomings (but in my mind, really to straighten out and normalize the QB play - which was really only an issue for TCU in 2012-2013 as the play really fell off from Pachall - for those not familiar with Pachall as a QB, think Cody Pickett). Last year I think most know about how successful TCU was offensively and that's setting the stage for 2015.
The topic that isn't getting talked about much for TCU heading into 2015 is not only the number of returning starters that they have, but how many of them are seniors. Remember that the rumors of TCU heading into the Big 12 started in the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes. Essentially, what TCU is experiencing right now is the uptick in the advancements of their recruiting combined with their traditionally strong player development. When you compare that to Washington, Petersen's getting an uptick in players that he's able to recruit compared to Boise and will be combining that with strong player development.
So why did I go through all of that history of TCU over the last 10 years? It's because it is very similar to what Petersen went through at Boise and I find it beyond coincidental the number of times that TCU and Boise crossed paths over the last 10 years with the overwhelming conclusion being that the difference in the programs (at least before TCU moved into the Big 12) was very slim. From a recruiting standpoint, you'd expect that TCU had slightly better players over that time frame than Boise did yet Boise played them toe to toe. I, and many on this board, have a very strong opinion of Patterson as a coach. It was impossible for me to not share that same opinion of Petersen the coach as a result.
While Petersen probably inherited a similar base (with a few higher end players) at Washington last year as what Patterson probably had to work with in the 2012-2013 time period, there's some key areas that are worth noting:
First, below average QB play sunk TCU its first two years in the Big 12 and play well below their capabilities. In fact, a common commentary that I would hear was that TCU lacked the players to play in the Big 12 (even though their historical record playing power conference teams spoke for itself and disproved the theory). Last year, it's very easy to find at least 3 games (excluding the bowl game) on Washington's schedule (Stanford, Arizona, and Arizona St) where the deficiencies at QB did not directly contribute to the loss. That's the difference right there between an 8-5 regular season and an 11-2 regular season. Very different narrative if you switch those games heading into this season.
Second, the path that TCU has shown over the last 3+ years from getting the pickup in Big 12 recruiting combined with player development is a key measuring stick for where Washington is at. The 2012 season for TCU mirrors the 2014 season for UW in my mind. Subpar QB play bringing down a strong supporting cast. Play a lot of close games that turn into some losses. Leave the season with the feeling that you could/should have done more. In 2013, TCU's QB problems completely get exposed and the youth on the roster went through some growing pains. I fully expect that this will be the case for Washington in 2015. As you look through Washington's 2 deeps, you're going to see a situation you have a number of young starters (notably on both sides of the lines) that have talent but are going to give uneven performances. We should expect to see some uneven performances from the QB position during the year (particularly so if it is Browning) but the reps will be vital to long term performance. We should also expect to see Washington play its best football to close out the 2015 season. Chest has already called out the Arizona State game as a potential upset for us and I agree 100% with that ... and again the 2013 TCU season is a great guide for us. TCU's last 4 games in 2013 included a 3 point OT loss to West Virginia, a win at Iowa State, a 2 point loss at KState on a last second FG, and a 3 point home loss to a Top 10 Baylor team.
Finally, the path of TCU as they've grown into a more mature team (very veteran defense in 2014, very veteran offense in 2015) is exactly what we should expect to see out of Washington in the 2016-2018 time period. Moreover, if you look at TCU's recruiting at this point it's extremely strong as they are benefiting from their success. It's what we should continue to expect out of Petersen at Washington if he is following a similar blue print.
This year will absolutely be tough at times. The offense may struggle at times. I think the jury is still out on Smith as the OC. We need to see some improvement this year or I do think Petersen needs to strongly consider shaking up his staff a bit. Patterson was very loyal to his staff and still is. However, he also made the moves that he has had to make when the results were not up to par. Pete may be faced with this in the offseason. But seeing what I've seen with TCU, knowing the talent that they had, saying before last season that I thought that they had a real strong shot to win the Big 12 IF they got solid QB play (which they did) gives me strong optimism that the same could be in store for Washington. I see a number of similarities between the situations (and I haven't even got into the general regressions in prior powers Oklahoma and Texas that has also aided TCU and what I think could very well be some regression coming for Oregon and Stanford). IF we can get through this year, then I think we'll be well positioned going forward. This year is going to require patience. It's going to require looking at things beyond the box score and seeing the big picture. There will be a tipping point coming in this program in the near future. It probably won't be this year. For TCU, the tipping point was beating Oklahoma last year to let them know that they really had turned the corner. For Washington that tipping point may be a November game this year or an early 2016 game. But when you see it, you'll know it.
Miles was relatively accurate (at least protected the ball) and had a noodle arm.
Lindy and Williams had stronger arms but ran the risk of creating numerous turnovers.
With the defense we had last year, playing to our strength (defense) was the right call.
The difference between 8-5 for the regular season and 11-2 was very, very small.
Agree that there's reason to question whether or not playing Lindy or Williams all year would have produced BETTER results. But to act like any of the QBs that were in place last year was significantly better than Miles doesn't bear out with performance on the field. High School AA QBs fail in college from time to time ... and given that you could argue that the quality of their development under the previous coaching staff was somewhere between non-existent and under par, it's hard to throw this all on the feet of Smith. That's why this is a very telling year for Smith to show that with a QB with either better tools (Browning) or a year of development (Lindy), that the offense can be better.
Anyone remember the two minute offense against UCLA? We run a no huddle to begin with. They should be able to look to the sidelines, line up, and get plays off quickly. Why was the offense slower than ever at a time they needed urgency? Most teams run their two minute offense everyday at practice. It was strange.
Miles looked less comfortable the last two games than in his early starts. If his hip issue is legit, it could explain some of it.
The running game was shit from when Pac 12 play began until Shaq took the job. It did get better though, so I guess it's a positive.
It was bad coaching and bad QB play. Same as it was for TCU in 2013. There is a reason Gary Patterson brought in new offensive coaches.
Honestly, it's unfair to really use the rationale that Patterson saw a terrible 2013 and pulled the trigger. It was a subpar 2012 combined with an unprepared contingency plan in 2013 that led to it. It was a 2 year effect. If we see similar from Smith in 2015, we should be expecting similar.
The only way that that could enter the equation in my mind would be if there was a game where we won BECAUSE OF higher caliber QB than I'm projecting. I can't think of a single game where the difference between winning/losing was directly tied to play of the QB.