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Mariners now at .500.... Felix improves to 8-1 1.91
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ERA: Felix = 3.04. Langston = 3.97
K/9: Felix = 8.54, Langston = 7.49
BB/9: Felix = 2.48, Langston = 3.92
HR/9: Felix = .71, Langston = .94
K/BB ratio: Felix = 3.44, Langston = 1.91
WHIP (BS stat, but one some people like): Felix = 1.16, Langston = 1.35
All star appearances: Felix = 5 in 10 years. Langston = 4 in 14 years.
Cy Young Awards: Felix = 1, Langston = 0
Times lead the league in ERA: Felix = 2, Langston = 0
Perfect Games: Felix = 1, Langston = 0
And before you argue pitching in the Kingdome versus pitching in Safeco, here's FIP: Felix = 3.15, Langston = 3.93
Felix is better at literally every single thing that a pitcher does than Langston was other than fielding. Langston was a very good pitcher for a long time. Felix is much better.
BTW, I never said Felix is an all time great. He's not quite there, yet. But baring injury, he will go down as one, and winning 20 games in a season or not will have nothing to do with that.
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Pitcher wins, the most worthless stat of all-time. The End.
Exhibit A: Fernando Rodney got a win the other day for giving up 3 runs in 1 inning and blowing a save. PITCHER WINS! -
@dnc, why is WHIP considered a worthless stat?
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I'd expect you to say that a save is a more worthless stat than a win ...CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:Pitcher wins, the most worthless stat of all-time. The End.
Exhibit A: Fernando Rodney got a win the other day for giving up 3 runs in 1 inning and blowing a save. PITCHER WINS!
I don't think that a win is completely worthless ... for relievers yes ... for starters no. The job of a starter is to put his team in position to win the game. -
Comparing Felix to Langston is unbelievably FS.
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My hatred for closers is well known.
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And I would argue that Felix does that more than any other pitcher in baseball over the past 7 years or so. But that doesn't show up in the form of "wins".Tequilla said:
I'd expect you to say that a save is a more worthless stat than a win ...CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:Pitcher wins, the most worthless stat of all-time. The End.
Exhibit A: Fernando Rodney got a win the other day for giving up 3 runs in 1 inning and blowing a save. PITCHER WINS!
I don't think that a win is completely worthless ... for relievers yes ... for starters no. The job of a starter is to put his team in position to win the game. -
It's fun to give you shit for as much
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I don't want to bore everyone here with defense independent pitching (dips) theory, but whip is a a poor stat since it consists primarily of hits allowed, which has as much or more to do with the defense than the pitcher. Pitchers can essentially control three things: walks, strikeouts and the trajectory of batted balls (groundball vs flyball). Over tim there is very little variance in batting average on balls in play (BABIP) between the best and worst pitchers, but much bigger fluctuations between the BABIP allowed by teams, which suggests the quality of the defenders play a bigger part in batting average allowed (and by extension, hits allowed) than the pitchers.RoadDawg55 said:@dnc, why is WHIP considered a worthless stat?
There are a few exceptions - ground ball pitchers tend to have higher batting averages allowed than fly ball pitchers since it's easier to turn a flyball into an out (but ground ball pitchers still have an advantage because groundballs have much lower slugging percentages than flyballs). Knuckleballers also seem to be an exception to dips theory - a good knuckleballer can post much lower than expected BABIP against. And a few pitchers at the extremes can outperform their expected BABIP's, primarily control specialists like Jamie Moyer. But the difference then is still minimal, and the exceptions are rare.
There, much more than this bored ever wanted to hear about dips.
TL; DR - WHIP is a poor stat because the primary component (hits allowed) is mostly out of the pitchers control. Also, TSIO. -
Where is ISIS when you need them?
