ERA: Felix = 3.04. Langston = 3.97 K/9: Felix = 8.54, Langston = 7.49 BB/9: Felix = 2.48, Langston = 3.92 HR/9: Felix = .71, Langston = .94 K/BB ratio: Felix = 3.44, Langston = 1.91 WHIP (BS stat, but one some people like): Felix = 1.16, Langston = 1.35 All star appearances: Felix = 5 in 10 years. Langston = 4 in 14 years. Cy Young Awards: Felix = 1, Langston = 0 Times lead the league in ERA: Felix = 2, Langston = 0 Perfect Games: Felix = 1, Langston = 0 And before you argue pitching in the Kingdome versus pitching in Safeco, here's FIP: Felix = 3.15, Langston = 3.93
Felix is better at literally every single thing that a pitcher does than Langston was other than fielding. Langston was a very good pitcher for a long time. Felix is much better.
BTW, I never said Felix is an all time great. He's not quite there, yet. But baring injury, he will go down as one, and winning 20 games in a season or not will have nothing to do with that.
Pitcher wins, the most worthless stat of all-time. The End.
Exhibit A: Fernando Rodney got a win the other day for giving up 3 runs in 1 inning and blowing a save. PITCHER WINS!
I'd expect you to say that a save is a more worthless stat than a win ...
I don't think that a win is completely worthless ... for relievers yes ... for starters no. The job of a starter is to put his team in position to win the game.
Pitcher wins, the most worthless stat of all-time. The End.
Exhibit A: Fernando Rodney got a win the other day for giving up 3 runs in 1 inning and blowing a save. PITCHER WINS!
I'd expect you to say that a save is a more worthless stat than a win ...
I don't think that a win is completely worthless ... for relievers yes ... for starters no. The job of a starter is to put his team in position to win the game.
And I would argue that Felix does that more than any other pitcher in baseball over the past 7 years or so. But that doesn't show up in the form of "wins".
I don't want to bore everyone here with defense independent pitching (dips) theory, but whip is a a poor stat since it consists primarily of hits allowed, which has as much or more to do with the defense than the pitcher. Pitchers can essentially control three things: walks, strikeouts and the trajectory of batted balls (groundball vs flyball). Over tim there is very little variance in batting average on balls in play (BABIP) between the best and worst pitchers, but much bigger fluctuations between the BABIP allowed by teams, which suggests the quality of the defenders play a bigger part in batting average allowed (and by extension, hits allowed) than the pitchers.
There are a few exceptions - ground ball pitchers tend to have higher batting averages allowed than fly ball pitchers since it's easier to turn a flyball into an out (but ground ball pitchers still have an advantage because groundballs have much lower slugging percentages than flyballs). Knuckleballers also seem to be an exception to dips theory - a good knuckleballer can post much lower than expected BABIP against. And a few pitchers at the extremes can outperform their expected BABIP's, primarily control specialists like Jamie Moyer. But the difference then is still minimal, and the exceptions are rare.
There, much more than this bored ever wanted to hear about dips.
TL; DR - WHIP is a poor stat because the primary component (hits allowed) is mostly out of the pitchers control. Also, TSIO.
Pitcher wins, the most worthless stat of all-time. The End.
Exhibit A: Fernando Rodney got a win the other day for giving up 3 runs in 1 inning and blowing a save. PITCHER WINS!
I'd expect you to say that a save is a more worthless stat than a win ...
I don't think that a win is completely worthless ... for relievers yes ... for starters no. The job of a starter is to put his team in position to win the game.
And I would argue that Felix does that more than any other pitcher in baseball over the past 7 years or so. But that doesn't show up in the form of "wins".
No doubt about that.
Ultimately, regardless of how you want to look at it, stats can only get you so far when evaluating a player and his value.
We want numbers to tell us everything ... but they are only a guide and probably best used as a way to prove a theory instead of using to develop a theory.
I think I saw a headline the other day that said something to the effect that researchers have proven that there's correlation between viewing interest and the size of the point spread in a game. Talk about water being wet.
From Jonah Keri and Grantland. He picked Sonny Gray as his Cy Young so far, which is fine, but to not mention Felix is retarded and makes him lose all credibility. It can't be an oversight either. It's not like Felix is an obscure pitcher. He's been regarded by most as the best pitcher in the AL for a few years now, at least since Verlander fell off.
This is more or less a toss-up. Gray leads the AL in park-adjusted ERA. Corey Kluber leads in park-adjusted FIP. Keuchel, Jake Odorizzi, Chris Archer, and Michael Pineda have all been terrific. But Gray ranks fourth in park-adjusted FIP category and fifth in innings pitched, so this isn’t merely a vote for superficial stats. The 25-year-old righty gets the nod for now, but there are at least five or six worthy candidates.
Keri's generally pretty good and generally very pro-Mariner (at least since his precious Expos made the Road Kill list), so I'd be interested in hearing out his reasoning for why Felix didn't make the cut. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't make his list towards the end of the year when it matters*.
*I know Boobs, subjective awards never really matter.
Comments
K/9: Felix = 8.54, Langston = 7.49
BB/9: Felix = 2.48, Langston = 3.92
HR/9: Felix = .71, Langston = .94
K/BB ratio: Felix = 3.44, Langston = 1.91
WHIP (BS stat, but one some people like): Felix = 1.16, Langston = 1.35
All star appearances: Felix = 5 in 10 years. Langston = 4 in 14 years.
Cy Young Awards: Felix = 1, Langston = 0
Times lead the league in ERA: Felix = 2, Langston = 0
Perfect Games: Felix = 1, Langston = 0
And before you argue pitching in the Kingdome versus pitching in Safeco, here's FIP: Felix = 3.15, Langston = 3.93
Felix is better at literally every single thing that a pitcher does than Langston was other than fielding. Langston was a very good pitcher for a long time. Felix is much better.
BTW, I never said Felix is an all time great. He's not quite there, yet. But baring injury, he will go down as one, and winning 20 games in a season or not will have nothing to do with that.
Exhibit A: Fernando Rodney got a win the other day for giving up 3 runs in 1 inning and blowing a save. PITCHER WINS!
I don't think that a win is completely worthless ... for relievers yes ... for starters no. The job of a starter is to put his team in position to win the game.
There are a few exceptions - ground ball pitchers tend to have higher batting averages allowed than fly ball pitchers since it's easier to turn a flyball into an out (but ground ball pitchers still have an advantage because groundballs have much lower slugging percentages than flyballs). Knuckleballers also seem to be an exception to dips theory - a good knuckleballer can post much lower than expected BABIP against. And a few pitchers at the extremes can outperform their expected BABIP's, primarily control specialists like Jamie Moyer. But the difference then is still minimal, and the exceptions are rare.
There, much more than this bored ever wanted to hear about dips.
TL; DR - WHIP is a poor stat because the primary component (hits allowed) is mostly out of the pitchers control. Also, TSIO.
Ultimately, regardless of how you want to look at it, stats can only get you so far when evaluating a player and his value.
We want numbers to tell us everything ... but they are only a guide and probably best used as a way to prove a theory instead of using to develop a theory.
I think I saw a headline the other day that said something to the effect that researchers have proven that there's correlation between viewing interest and the size of the point spread in a game. Talk about water being wet.
HTH
This is more or less a toss-up. Gray leads the AL in park-adjusted ERA. Corey Kluber leads in park-adjusted FIP. Keuchel, Jake Odorizzi, Chris Archer, and Michael Pineda have all been terrific. But Gray ranks fourth in park-adjusted FIP category and fifth in innings pitched, so this isn’t merely a vote for superficial stats. The 25-year-old righty gets the nod for now, but there are at least five or six worthy candidates.
https://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-2015-mlb-quarter-season-awards-mike-trout-bryce-harper-sonny-gray-max-scherzer/
*I know Boobs, subjective awards never really matter.