As the Dustin Ackley era continues to sputter in Seattle, a change of scenery may be in order

HFNY

Larry Stone is putting a fork in Ackley. His confidence seems shattered and maybe we can get a talented but struggling catcher in return (Sucre just can't hit and John Hicks needs more time in AAA). Nothing will happen until Austin Jackson comes back though:

seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/as-the-dustin-ackley-era-continues-to-sputter-in-seattle-a-change-of-scenery-may-be-in-order/

TierbsHsotBoobs

SteveInShelton

HFNY said:

Larry Stone is putting a fork in Ackley. His confidence seems shattered and maybe we can get a talented but struggling catcher in return (Sucre/Zunino just can't hit and John Hicks needs more time in AAA). Nothing will happen until Austin Jackson comes back though:

seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/as-the-dustin-ackley-era-continues-to-sputter-in-seattle-a-change-of-scenery-may-be-in-order/

I don't think Ackley has any trade value at all. Maybe a team thinks they can plug him in at 2B, but I think that ship has sailed.

Tequilla

Good chance that Ackley will go the way of Justin Smoak ...

One of the biggest problems that the Mariners organization has is that they are way too in love with their own players ... when a prior trade could have been made to salvage at least some value out of Smoak or even Ackley, the Mariners hung on until the bitter end and were left holding nothing ...

But then again, how is Jack Z a bad GM? Howard Lincoln a bad (lead) owner? Chuck Armstrong a bad President? Abundance.

DerekJohnson

Tequilla said:

Good chance that Ackley will go the way of Justin Smoak ...

One of the biggest problems that the Mariners organization has is that they are way too in love with their own players

You mean like Adam Jones?

Tequilla

Adam Jones isn't in the same ballpark ... that was Lincoln/Armstrong being FS and putting Bavasi in a position where he needed to make decisions for his personal interest above those of the organization ...

If we've learned anything around these parts over the last 5-7 years ... it's that when you know it's time to move on you move on. It's far better to be a year too early than a year too late.

HFNY

Yeah, they probably should've traded Ackley after 2014 and gotten a better back-up catcher than Sucre rather than waiting until know (I like Sucre's D though).

Tequilla said:

Good chance that Ackley will go the way of Justin Smoak ...

One of the biggest problems that the Mariners organization has is that they are way too in love with their own players ... when a prior trade could have been made to salvage at least some value out of Smoak or even Ackley, the Mariners hung on until the bitter end and were left holding nothing ...

But then again, how is Jack Z a bad GM? Howard Lincoln a bad (lead) owner? Chuck Armstrong a bad President? Abundance.

TierbsHsotBoobs

Tequilla said:

Adam Jones isn't in the same ballpark ... that was Lincoln/Armstrong being FS and putting Bavasi in a position where he needed to make decisions for his personal interest above those of the organization ...

If we've learned anything around these parts over the last 20 years ... it's that when you know it's time to move on you move on. It's far better to be a year too early than a year too late.

Lambo.

Tequilla

There's no real problem having Sucre on the roster when you know he's going to catch no more than 30 games ...

The problem is rushing Zunino to the bigs before his bat was fully developed and being stuck at playing him 120-130 games per year while he struggles against quality major league pitching.

That being said, Dan Wilson was even more hopeless as a hitter early in his career before developing into an above average hitter at the position for more than a few years. So there's still hope for Zunino ... the power is definitely not questioned.

DerekJohnson

Tequilla said:

Adam Jones isn't in the same ballpark ... that was Lincoln/Armstrong being FS and putting Bavasi in a position where he needed to make decisions for his personal interest above those of the organization ...

If we've learned anything around these parts over the last 5-7 years ... it's that when you know it's time to move on you move on. It's far better to be a year too early than a year too late.

HFNY

I see your point but 30 games is still a lot to start a back-up who simply can't hit. Also to your point about rushing Zunino to the bigs, what if he goes through a bad slump and needs more time off? Or if he gets dinged up and needs to go on the 15 day DL?

I am a big fan of Zunino's potential but am concerned about having to rely on Sucre a lot more than anyone would like. Our depth in the organization isn't very good, especially with John Hicks struggling this year at AAA and Steve Baron needing more time at AA before moving up.

Tequilla said:

There's no real problem having Sucre on the roster when you know he's going to catch no more than 30 games ...

The problem is rushing Zunino to the bigs before his bat was fully developed and being stuck at playing him 120-130 games per year while he struggles against quality major league pitching.

That being said, Dan Wilson was even more hopeless as a hitter early in his career before developing into an above average hitter at the position for more than a few years. So there's still hope for Zunino ... the power is definitely not questioned.

TierbsHsotBoobs

Tequilla said:

There's no real problem having Sucre on the roster when you know he's going to catch no more than 30 games ...

The problem is rushing Zunino to the bigs before his bat was fully developed and being stuck at playing him 120-130 games per year while he struggles against quality major league pitching.

That being said, Dan Wilson was even more hopeless as a hitter early in his career before developing into an above average hitter at the position for more than a few years. So there's still hope for Zunino ... the power is definitely not questioned.

Dan Wilson suddenly became a much better hitter in 1995.




early adopter

Tequilla

If you go by WAR as your source, Zunino is a replacement level player at this point.

I see a lot of good things to him ... but his bad elements are SO BAD that it takes away a lot of the good things that he does.

HFNY

He should get better but it will be slower than if he spent all of 2013 at AAA and maybe even the start of 2014.

I'm still not worried about him, he's slowly getting better at hitting breaking pitches and not swinging at garbage pitches. He has the bat speed and power to mash fastballs and his defense is still very good, along with his framing of pitches (a friend of mine who played college baseball since his framing of pitches could save up to 20 runs this year).

Anyway, I'm concerned about him going through a bad slump since he was rushed or even getting dinged. Sucre's D is good but his bat is weak even at the AAA level so it would sink any momentum we might be building if he goes from little used back-up to starter for even a few weeks.

Tequilla said:

If you go by WAR as your source, Zunino is a replacement level player at this point.

I see a lot of good things to him ... but his bad elements are SO BAD that it takes away a lot of the good things that he does.

dnc

Tequilla said:

If you go by WAR as your source, Zunino is a replacement level player at this point.

I see a lot of good things to him ... but his bad elements are SO BAD that it takes away a lot of the good things that he does.

His strikeout issue was a massive red flag at every level coming up. At least by Double A they should have told him you get promoted to the next level when you keep your strikeouts below 20%. Since they didn't, he never learned to protect the plate offensively. He's a defensive wizard but he's so far below what he could have been offensively it's sad.

But why is Jackie Z a bad GM?

SteveInShelton

dnc said:

Tequilla said:

If you go by WAR as your source, Zunino is a replacement level player at this point.

I see a lot of good things to him ... but his bad elements are SO BAD that it takes away a lot of the good things that he does.

His strikeout issue was a massive red flag at every level coming up. At least by Double A they should have told him you get promoted to the next level when you keep your strikeouts below 20%. Since they didn't, he never learned to protect the plate offensively. He's a defensive wizard but he's so far below what he could have been offensively it's sad.

But why is Jackie Z a bad GM?

At least he actually made it to the majors, Hultzen isn't even close and he was supposed to be the "safest" pick of that entire draft.

dnc

SteveInShelton said:

dnc said:

Tequilla said:

If you go by WAR as your source, Zunino is a replacement level player at this point.

I see a lot of good things to him ... but his bad elements are SO BAD that it takes away a lot of the good things that he does.

His strikeout issue was a massive red flag at every level coming up. At least by Double A they should have told him you get promoted to the next level when you keep your strikeouts below 20%. Since they didn't, he never learned to protect the plate offensively. He's a defensive wizard but he's so far below what he could have been offensively it's sad.

But why is Jackie Z a bad GM?

At least he actually made it to the majors, Hultzen isn't even close and he was supposed to be the "safest" pick of that entire draft.

Don't even get me started. I BRB JO'd over Rendon more times than Swaye at a nudist biker chick convention. I couldn't believe he fell to us, and couldn't believe we passed on him. For Hultzen of all fucking people.

The M's drafted in the top 3 in the two most star studded top 10s in the past dozen years and got Jeff Clement and Danny Hultzen. Add in passing on Lincecum for Brandon Morrow and you don't even need to make it to the Bedard trade to explain why the Mariners have sucked for so long.

FMFYFE

HFNY

My prayers were sort of answered:

seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/trade-mariners-acquire-catcher-welington-castillo-from-cubs-for-reliever-yoervis-medina/

HFNY

At least Hultzen's non-appearance in the Bigs is due to injury (which no one saw coming).

OTOH, Ackley has nearly 2,000 ABs at the MLB level and, barring a miracle, has proven himself to be a utility guy at best.

SteveInShelton said:

dnc said:

Tequilla said:

If you go by WAR as your source, Zunino is a replacement level player at this point.

I see a lot of good things to him ... but his bad elements are SO BAD that it takes away a lot of the good things that he does.

His strikeout issue was a massive red flag at every level coming up. At least by Double A they should have told him you get promoted to the next level when you keep your strikeouts below 20%. Since they didn't, he never learned to protect the plate offensively. He's a defensive wizard but he's so far below what he could have been offensively it's sad.

But why is Jackie Z a bad GM?

At least he actually made it to the majors, Hultzen isn't even close and he was supposed to be the "safest" pick of that entire draft.

dnc

HFNY said:

At least Hultzen's non-appearance in the Bigs is due to injury (which no one saw coming).

OTOH, Ackley has nearly 2,000 ABs at the MLB level and, barring a miracle, has proven himself to be a utility guy at best.

SteveInShelton said:

dnc said:

Tequilla said:

If you go by WAR as your source, Zunino is a replacement level player at this point.

I see a lot of good things to him ... but his bad elements are SO BAD that it takes away a lot of the good things that he does.

His strikeout issue was a massive red flag at every level coming up. At least by Double A they should have told him you get promoted to the next level when you keep your strikeouts below 20%. Since they didn't, he never learned to protect the plate offensively. He's a defensive wizard but he's so far below what he could have been offensively it's sad.

But why is Jackie Z a bad GM?

At least he actually made it to the majors, Hultzen isn't even close and he was supposed to be the "safest" pick of that entire draft.

OTOH, Ackley was universally regarded as the second best pick in that draft (after Strasburg). He's worthless, no doubt, but he wasn't a bad pick necessarily, just bad luck that he busted so hard. Hultzen was clearly a terrible choice at the time he was selected.

Yeah, I know.

HFNY

I'm not saying I disagree but who did any writer or analyst actually say he was "clearly a terrible choice" at the time he was selected?

dnc said:

HFNY said:

At least Hultzen's non-appearance in the Bigs is due to injury (which no one saw coming).

OTOH, Ackley has nearly 2,000 ABs at the MLB level and, barring a miracle, has proven himself to be a utility guy at best.

SteveInShelton said:

dnc said:

Tequilla said:

If you go by WAR as your source, Zunino is a replacement level player at this point.

I see a lot of good things to him ... but his bad elements are SO BAD that it takes away a lot of the good things that he does.

His strikeout issue was a massive red flag at every level coming up. At least by Double A they should have told him you get promoted to the next level when you keep your strikeouts below 20%. Since they didn't, he never learned to protect the plate offensively. He's a defensive wizard but he's so far below what he could have been offensively it's sad.

But why is Jackie Z a bad GM?

At least he actually made it to the majors, Hultzen isn't even close and he was supposed to be the "safest" pick of that entire draft.

OTOH, Ackley was universally regarded as the second best pick in that draft (after Strasburg). He's worthless, no doubt, but he wasn't a bad pick necessarily, just bad luck that he busted so hard. Hultzen was clearly a terrible choice at the time he was selected.

Yeah, I know.