Thoughts on 2015 LBs
Players who are returning in 2015 who have experience at LB are:
Feeney (SR) . . 60 tackles, 4.5 TFL, 1 sack, 2 INT, 1 FR
Littleton (SR) . 37 tackles, 3.5 TFL, 1 sack, 1 FR
Lawyer (SR) . . 20 tackles, 1.0 TFL
Bierria (SO) . . 35 tackles, 3.0 TFL, 1 sack
Victor, Constantine, and O'Brien mainly played on special teams last year, so I excluded them from the list since this is players with experience playing at LB.
Yup, that's it. 4 players with LB experience. Based on the above list, it looks like LB will be the thinnest position group of 2015. And unless all three of the aforementioned special teamers step up in the spring and secure starting or 2nd-string status, we'll be seeing Lewis or some of the true freshman on the field this fall, not unlike our secondary in 2014 which played 5 freshman (which is why we loaded up on LB in this recruiting class).
Because of the inexperience here, and at the DL, and all the underclassman in the secondary, Feeney and/or Littleton will need to be the leader of the defense next year. We only have 5 seniors on defense, and the only one that was a starter last year was Feeney (although Littleton started at RUSH under Sark before moving to OLB with Petersen). Even though Feeney and Littleton are both seniors with starting experience, they'll be two of the most important players to watch this spring because they need to step into a leadership role if we hope to have a decent defense next year. And if we hope to have a decent defense in 2016 and beyond, we need to see something more out of Bierria and the other SO LBs.
Comments
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Thoughts on 2015 LBs
I thought this was going to be about the LPT -
Timu played like his only experience was special teams.
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Should be special
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DL & LBs are certainly a concern, but not even close to the biggest concern.
My bigger concern of the 2 is the DL. Qualls & Mathis played meaningful time last year and did pretty well. And there was some talent in the Frosh class and they are hopefully ready for the 2 deep. Turpin & Finau have to improve or they'll get passed up, as they have not shown anything to date. Going 2 deep with quality on the DL is muy importante.
At LB, losing Timu is addition by subtraction. Losing Shaq is certainly going to hurt. Littleton has shown he can play, and if a couple from the group of Bierria, Lawyer, Victor and O'Brien step up, it may not be that big of a dropoff.
Concern #1 - QB
Concern #2 - OL
Concern #3 - DL
Concern #4 - Most everything else -
Feeney+Victor+Bierria
UW will be young and thin at a lot of position groups in 2015. But LB isn't one of them. -
I thought Feces in his Throat said Victor didn't like Coach Pete? I figured Victor'd be selling his couch.
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Those stats are from the 2014 season and not career numbers, right?
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The thought of a LB crew of Feeney, Lawyer, and Littleton gives me a great big soft one
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I know Timu has never been popular here, what with his frustrating plays over the years (numerous mistackles and dropped INTs/pick sixes), but the guy was productive. I do not see it as addition by subtraction next year. He lead the team with 108 tackles last year, 12 passes defended (next highest PDs were Jones/Baker with 7 each), and 2 pick sixes in 2014. I don't see anyone getting close to those numbers next year, especially when his two back-ups (Lawyer and Victor) have a combined 46 tackles in 6 years at UW.
I don't think anyone could make the argument that Lawyer and/or Victor is going to be better than Timu.
Yeah, those are 2014's stats only. I should have labeled that table better, but those are the career numbers for Bierria (duh) and pretty much the same for Lawyer (38 tackles total in 4 years at UW).CFetters_Nacho_Lover said:Those stats are from the 2014 season and not career numbers, right?
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hang in there...AD Woodman said we're in a trough with respect to winning...should have UW competitive in the next 15 years... keep those donations coming!!PostGameOrangeSlices said:Should be special
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Timu may not have been great, but there should be at least a short term drop off.
Anybody that was in the addition by subtraction camp re Keith Price last year should have learned their lesson on this -
I think our lack of a great BUCK linebacker combined our lack of D Lineman next year could have us playing more 4-3. If that's the case then I think you see Feeney, Bierria and Littleton as our LBs. We need a true 3-4 nose tackle for last years defense to be effective and Qualls is no Danny Shelton. Maybe Vita Vea but we have no idea what to expect from him. Littleton is nowhere near Kikaha as far as pass rushing or being able to hold the edge. I think we substitute a mediocre BUCK like Littleton for a bigger body on a lot of snaps and bring a DB up into the box. We just don't really have a great hybrid LB/DL player but we might have a hybrid DB/LB in a guy like Joyner or Jo Jo McIntosh.
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Timu wasn't good. The addition by subtraction phrase applies to him.
KP1 was a record setting QB at UW. Anyone who thought he wasn't going to be missed deserves the rusty cheese grater treatment.
Also, I'm as big of a Sacramento homer there is, but Shaq as a LB is overrated. He had a far greater impact on the offensive side of the ball. His career would be defined differently if he played RB all along. -
I very much agree with both of these statements.Doogles said:KP1 was a record setting QB at UW. Anyone who thought he wasn't going to be missed deserves the rusty cheese grater treatment.
Also, I'm as big of a Sacramento homer there is, but Shaq as a LB is overrated. He had a far greater impact on the offensive side of the ball. His career would be defined differently if he played RB all along. -
Price was such a good QB that he didn't even make it to training camp in the NFL. I stupidly thought Miles would play at a similar level, mainly because of his running. He was a big upgrade over Miles, but he's overrated by many on this board. He's a decent QB that can win with talent around him.Doogles said:Timu wasn't good. The addition by subtraction phrase applies to him.
KP1 was a record setting QB at UW. Anyone who thought he wasn't going to be missed deserves the rusty cheese grater treatment.
Also, I'm as big of a Sacramento homer there is, but Shaq as a LB is overrated. He had a far greater impact on the offensive side of the ball. His career would be defined differently if he played RB all along.
A better OL would have helped, but he was an average Pac 12 QB. Good passer rating, but he was also 7th in QBR his senior year and one good game in three years against a good opponent. We can play the hypothetical what ifs when it comes to the OL and Sark, but his play at UW was about league average.
Kim and Hugh Millen's unwarranted bashing of Price to prop up Sark and Locker has inflated his worth imo. -
I look at Price and Timu in a similar light ...
Both are somewhere between average and above average PAC players at their positions ...
Neither are guys that will be NFL players ...
Neither are guys that are going to be central players on PAC caliber championship teams ...
Price COULD QB a team to a PAC championship, but the surrounding cast would have needed to be fairly dominant ...
Likewise, Timu could be part of a PAC caliber winning defense ... but he needed guys like Shelton, Kikaha, Shaq, etc around him where he became more of an ancillary player.
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Eric Crouch won a heisman and never played in the league. Price was the best quarterback here since Pickett, enough road doogin.RoadDawg55 said:
Price was such a good QB that he didn't even make it to training camp in the NFL. I stupidly thought Miles would play at a similar level, mainly because of his running. He was a big upgrade over Miles, but he's overrated by many on this board. He's a decent QB that can win with talent around him.Doogles said:Timu wasn't good. The addition by subtraction phrase applies to him.
KP1 was a record setting QB at UW. Anyone who thought he wasn't going to be missed deserves the rusty cheese grater treatment.
Also, I'm as big of a Sacramento homer there is, but Shaq as a LB is overrated. He had a far greater impact on the offensive side of the ball. His career would be defined differently if he played RB all along.
A better OL would have helped, but he was an average Pac 12 QB. Good passer rating, but he was also 7th in QBR his senior year and one good game in three years against a good opponent. We can play the hypothetical what ifs when it comes to the OL and Sark, but his play at UW was about league average.
Kim and Hugh Millen's unwarranted bashing of Price to prop up Sark and Locker has inflated his worth imo. -
Eric Crouch was an option QB. Next you will be telling me that Tommy Fraizer was pretty good.doogsinparadise said:
Eric Crouch won a heisman and never played in the league. Price was the best quarterback here since Pickett, enough road doogin.RoadDawg55 said:
Price was such a good QB that he didn't even make it to training camp in the NFL. I stupidly thought Miles would play at a similar level, mainly because of his running. He was a big upgrade over Miles, but he's overrated by many on this board. He's a decent QB that can win with talent around him.Doogles said:Timu wasn't good. The addition by subtraction phrase applies to him.
KP1 was a record setting QB at UW. Anyone who thought he wasn't going to be missed deserves the rusty cheese grater treatment.
Also, I'm as big of a Sacramento homer there is, but Shaq as a LB is overrated. He had a far greater impact on the offensive side of the ball. His career would be defined differently if he played RB all along.
A better OL would have helped, but he was an average Pac 12 QB. Good passer rating, but he was also 7th in QBR his senior year and one good game in three years against a good opponent. We can play the hypothetical what ifs when it comes to the OL and Sark, but his play at UW was about league average.
Kim and Hugh Millen's unwarranted bashing of Price to prop up Sark and Locker has inflated his worth imo.
I agree that Price was the best since Picket. That doesn't mean he was a really good QB. He wasn't. He put up stats in the pass happy era and threw a killer bubble screen. -
Keith Price was plenty productive. Not a player who is going to put the team on his back and single-handedly win games but a slightly above average QB(his sophomore and senior seasons) who benefited from having two of the best running backs to come through our program in god knows how long.
QB is the one position on the field where the difference between average and below average can make or break your season and I think with Keith Price we win another 2-3 games and the 2014 season looks completely different. -
Hi TimerToddTurnerLIVES said:Keith Price was plenty productive. Not a player who is going to put the team on his back and single-handedly win games but a slightly above average QB(his sophomore and senior seasons) who benefited from having two of the best running backs to come through our program in god knows how long.
QB is the one position on the field where the difference between average and below average can make or break your season and I think with Keith Price we win another 2-3 games and the 2014 season looks completely different. -
I get what you're saying but after 4+ years as a starting linebacker and you are still getting sucked up and taken out of plays you need to go sit the goddamn bench. He was never a big hitter either, imo. Interceptions and pick-6's are nice, but he even fucked up some of those. Wasn't it Stanford and Oregon this year that he had one in his hands and just flat out dropped it? Fuck that.Tequilla said:I look at Price and Timu in a similar light ...
Both are somewhere between average and above average PAC players at their positions ...
Neither are guys that will be NFL players ...
Neither are guys that are going to be central players on PAC caliber championship teams ...
Price COULD QB a team to a PAC championship, but the surrounding cast would have needed to be fairly dominant ...
Likewise, Timu could be part of a PAC caliber winning defense ... but he needed guys like Shelton, Kikaha, Shaq, etc around him where he became more of an ancillary player. -
There have been a lot of great college QBs who did nothing in the NFL. Success in the NFL does not imply effectiveness in college. And visa versa. So suggesting that Price was not a good college QB based on the fact that he didn't make it into an NFL trying camp is over the top FS.
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I would agree if Price ever won anything. Winning matters. The point wasn't that Price did nothing in the NFL. He wasn't even wanted after the Seahawks cut him (in June).HuskyInAZ said:There have been a lot of great college QBs who did nothing in the NFL. Success in the NFL does not imply effectiveness in college. And visa versa. So suggesting that Price was not a good college QB based on the fact that he didn't make it into an NFL trying camp is over the top FS.
Kellen Moore, Ken Dorsey, Tebow, David Greene, and Jason Gesser at least lasted a little while. And they all won in college.
This board is the only place where posters say Hundley, Taylor Kelly, Sean Mannion, and Kevin Hogan suck, but somehow Price is considered a really good QB.
Hundley and Kelly had better stats and won more. Mannion threw for more yards and more touchdowns and won at basically the same clip. Hogan has won a Rose Bowl. But according to some here those guys suck, but Price is good. -
Da fuq? Let me introduce you to UW's 2015 BUCK. From Littleton's UW bio:ToddTurnerLIVES said:I think our lack of a great BUCK linebacker combined our lack of D Lineman next year could have us playing more 4-3. If that's the case then I think you see Feeney, Bierria and Littleton as our LBs. We need a true 3-4 nose tackle for last years defense to be effective and Qualls is no Danny Shelton. Maybe Vita Vea but we have no idea what to expect from him. Littleton is nowhere near Kikaha as far as pass rushing or being able to hold the edge. I think we substitute a mediocre BUCK like Littleton for a bigger body on a lot of snaps and bring a DB up into the box. We just don't really have a great hybrid LB/DL player but we might have a hybrid DB/LB in a guy like Joyner or Jo Jo McIntosh.
2013: Started all 13 games at defensive end ... two tackles in the win over Boise State ... five stops, including half a sack, in the victory over Illinois in Chicago ... two tackles vs. Idaho State ... posted five tackles and his first career sack in the Arizona win ... four tackles at Stanford ... notched six stops vs. Oregon ... had seven tackles, including four for loss and a sack, at Arizona State ... five tackles, including one and a half for loss and half of a sack, in the win over California ... six stops, including half of a sack, in the win over Colorado ... four tackles, plus a fumble recovery and a forced fumble, at UCLA ... five tackles, half for a loss, in the win at Oregon State ... had seven tackles, including one a half for loss and a sack, in the Apple Cup win over Washington State ... posted four tackles, including half of a tackle for loss, in the Fight Hunger Bowl win over BYU.
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I mean, I'm not saying he is bad or that he couldn't end up being pretty good. Just saying that he clearly isn't Kikaha and we don't have a Shelton in the middle anymore on the defensive line.TTJ said:Da fuq? Let me introduce you to UW's 2015 BUCK.....
Kikaha finished his UW career with 206 tackles and 36 sacks. Littleton has 51 tackles and 1 sack heading into his senior season. -
So if a someone plays on a shitty team, then they are shitty? And if someone plays on a good team, they are good. Did I get that right? After all, winning matters.RoadDawg55 said:
I would agree if Price ever won anything. Winning matters. The point wasn't that Price did nothing in the NFL. He wasn't even wanted after the Seahawks cut him (in June).HuskyInAZ said:There have been a lot of great college QBs who did nothing in the NFL. Success in the NFL does not imply effectiveness in college. And visa versa. So suggesting that Price was not a good college QB based on the fact that he didn't make it into an NFL trying camp is over the top FS.
Kellen Moore, Ken Dorsey, Tebow, David Greene, and Jason Gesser at least lasted a little while. And they all won in college.
This board is the only place where posters say Hundley, Taylor Kelly, Sean Mannion, and Kevin Hogan suck, but somehow Price is considered a really good QB.
Hundley and Kelly had better stats and won more. Mannion threw for more yards and more touchdowns and won at basically the same clip. Hogan has won a Rose Bowl. But according to some here those guys suck, but Price is good. -
NoHuskyInAZ said:
So if a someone plays on a shitty team, then they are shitty? And if someone plays on a good team, they are good. Did I get that right? After all, winning matters.RoadDawg55 said:
I would agree if Price ever won anything. Winning matters. The point wasn't that Price did nothing in the NFL. He wasn't even wanted after the Seahawks cut him (in June).HuskyInAZ said:There have been a lot of great college QBs who did nothing in the NFL. Success in the NFL does not imply effectiveness in college. And visa versa. So suggesting that Price was not a good college QB based on the fact that he didn't make it into an NFL trying camp is over the top FS.
Kellen Moore, Ken Dorsey, Tebow, David Greene, and Jason Gesser at least lasted a little while. And they all won in college.
This board is the only place where posters say Hundley, Taylor Kelly, Sean Mannion, and Kevin Hogan suck, but somehow Price is considered a really good QB.
Hundley and Kelly had better stats and won more. Mannion threw for more yards and more touchdowns and won at basically the same clip. Hogan has won a Rose Bowl. But according to some here those guys suck, but Price is good. -
Can we move Tripper Johnson to LB? He was a big safety.
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ToddTurnerLIVES said:
I mean, I'm not saying he is bad or that he couldn't end up being pretty good. Just saying that he clearly isn't Kikaha and we don't have a Shelton in the middle anymore on the defensive line.TTJ said:Da fuq? Let me introduce you to UW's 2015 BUCK.....
Kikaha finished his UW career with 206 tackles and 36 sacks. Littleton has 51 tackles and 1 sack heading into his senior season.
Kikaha led the nation in sacks. And I've called Shelton the best player to pass through UW in 20 years. Nobody is saying those guys won't be missed. Still, lots of teams would like to have a young DL rotation like this:
NT VEA/Gaines
3T QUALLS/Dissly
5T MATHIS/Dissly
BK LITTLETON/Johnson -
Johnson panning out as our next BUCK would be huge for our D. I guy who came in as a pass rusher who is big enough to play the run and hopefully can play in space.TTJ said:Kikaha led the nation in sacks. And I've called Shelton the best player to pass through UW in 20 years. Nobody is saying those guys won't be missed. Still, lots of teams would like to have a young DL rotation like this:
NT VEA/Gaines
3T QUALLS/Dissly
5T MATHIS/Dissly
BK LITTLETON/Johnson
I think Littleton could be a great outside backer but he is too small to be effective in the pass rush and holding the edge defending the run. Littleton played a BUCK-like position under Wilcox but I feel like his main priority was really just to make sure that the RB and mobile QBs didn't beat him outside. He would get 3-5 yards upfield and take the right tackle out of the play and leave Feeney to blitz or cover the left side of the field.
Littleton was a lot like Andrew Hudson in the sense that he was asked to play a position that he wasn't that well suited for and did a pretty good job despite that. I think he is naturally a OLB.
