The fence

MikeDamone

Back in February everybody said the fence didn't matter anymore. Sark is a national recruiter and it doesn't matter where the players come from. Well, not everyone, such as HHBs and most coaches who said recruiting their state is vital. But i heard that was just coach speak. I mean, what are they supposed to say? But pretty much everyone agreed that the internets was a game changer as are airplanes. Recruits don't have to wait by the mailbox for letters delivered by the pony express and they no longer have to walk several hundred miles to visit other schools. Plus, they can go home for holidays, which wasn't easy up until sark took over and now that riverboat and train travel have been surpassed. It doesn't matter that UW needed linemen and two of the best in the nation left Seattle. It doesn't matter because there are a lot more lineman across the country than in Seattle.

So what does this board think? The recently retired Don James said it was vital, but he is old and probably communicated with a telegraph.

section8

Not as crucial as it was before electricity but you can't focus all you're attention on Cali (I like to say Cali) at the expense of ignoring the local schools. I don't get overly excited by 1 big time recruit when the rest of class sucks and isn't addressing the deficiencies on the roster.

TierbsHsotBoobs

Any time you can ignore local talent to steal a three star safety from Vandy and Ole Miss, you just have to do it.

section8

3 Star Safety who will probably be a bust that didn't buy into the program a couple years down the line. Meanwhile UCLA is taking a page from the Harbaugh script and stockpiling every lineman they can get their hands on, sure glad we have all those receivers; maybe one of them can play QB when the O-Line gets Miles and Lindquist killed.

Global

The lack of attention to getting O linemen in particular runs back 10-15 years. We had a slew of injuries in the lack 90s that compounded with Slick and his Sark-like propensity to recruit skill players, and then the whole messes with Gilby and TW, during which a bad slew of key injuries continued (I recall one star OL player under TW who retired as a freshman, etc). Sark has been doing better, at a minimum, at stockpiling some linemen, but the quality is not at the level of USC, Stanford, or Oregon, and now UCLA has figured out the same basic point that lines tend to determine games. I am more optimistic that Tosh Lupoi will recruit and train well on the DL, but that is to be seen -- it is still weak. I still think opposing coaches tell young OL players about Cozzetto, and his screamer style, and they look at the track record and go elsewhere. The two top kids recently knew that. So for me, Sark need to get this line issue resolved in terms of OL recruiting but also OL coaching (part of that issue is Cozzetto, who should be replaced). If not, Sark should be shown the door.

DerekJohnson

Global said:

The lack of attention to getting O linemen in particular runs back 10-15 years. We had a slew of injuries in the lack 90s that compounded with Slick and his Sark-like propensity to recruit skill players, and then the whole messes with Gilby and TW, during which a bad slew of key injuries continued (I recall one star OL player under TW who retired as a freshman, etc). Sark has been doing better, at a minimum, at stockpiling some linemen, but the quality is not at the level of USC, Stanford, or Oregon, and now UCLA has figured out the same basic point that lines tend to determine games. I am more optimistic that Tosh Lupoi will recruit and train well on the DL, but that is to be seen -- it is still weak. I still think opposing coaches tell young OL players about Cozzetto, and his screamer style, and they look at the track record and go elsewhere. The two top kids recently knew that. So for me, Sark need to get this line issue resolved in terms of OL recruiting but also OL coaching (part of that issue is Cozzetto, who should be replaced). If not, Sark should be shown the door.

To say Sark is "stockpiling" o-line talent is a poor choice of words. "Neglecting" seems more like it. That said, I agree with most of what you say here. But among the Pac-12 coaching fraternity, Tosh is reportedly known as a guy who will recruit the big-time primadonna athlete who doesn't want to work hard. (Just look at Cal). So I don't share your optimism there.

Global

We will see on Tosh. The results of his recruiting, if we look at Shaq thus far, look pretty good, but Shaq probably looks good as long as he tries. We will see if the guys Tosh recruits are slackers at the UW. I would wonder if there is a difference between the guys he recruits, versus the guys he coaches?

Just for clarity, I did not say Sark is stockpiling O-linemen talent, but that he is "doing better" than his predecessors recently at stockpiling "some linemen". A bunch (of mixed talent levels) were redshirted, and hopefully will start to show next year. I think neglecting is too strong a description, but agree that the OL is considerably under-addressed. We have been throwing true freshmen recruits (e.g., Kohler) into duty since the Willingham era, however, and that is rarely a recipe for success.

Back to the big issue, though, I think we need a change of OL coach, and if Sark does not do so, I will be more disturbed than ever. The OL of 2012 was a mess, and that was before injuries hit. After four years of Sark and Cozzetto, that is unacceptable.

DerekJohnson

well you used the phrase "stockpiling some linemen" so I was going off what you said.

In my opinion, replacing the o-line coach is just like Ty replacing Kent Baer. It just delays the inevitable.

Global

Yes, Sark is doing better than Willingham at recruiting OL players, but that is not saying much.

You will not find me to be a big Sark supporter. He has done some good things, but after four years is still learning how to be the main man. He did not act very clever when he hired his initial staff, Because he was young, he hired guys even younger than himself, the exception being Cozzetto, who he picked up after his hire of Michalzhik failed. He made a mistake with Holt obviously, and is lucky he got Wilcox.
I seriously think the OL has been a disaster from the get-go, and was appalled that he had hired Cozzetto. That guy was hired by Rick, and left after one year, and pretty tough guys like Juan Garcia were delighted to see him go, and the OL coaching got better after he left. Still have not recruited well for the OL though, and that is ultimately on Sark.
But who knows? I think we have about 4 RS freshmen OL guys coming into the mix for spring, and Sark said Friday that they are progressing well in their RS year.

DerekJohnson

Again, agree with most of what you said... However, if Sark has demonstrated a lack of emphasis toward the offensive line, and has shown a great affinity for skill position players, then are we supposed to get optimistic because he says the RS linemen are progressing well? How do we have confidence that he knows what progressing well means? And does it inspire confidence that in his fifth year he will potentially have four RS freshmen linemen he is counting on to turn things around in what is supposed to be a magical season?

Global

Agree that it is not very inspiring. What was inspiring for me this year was the Stanford win, and the Arizona and WSU losses ran in the opposite direction of course. But overcoming Stanford in a physical battle was the high point of the season for me.
Sark says, as regards the OL, getting four of five starters back, plus Tanigawa and Kohler and these RS freshmen, is the progress he is looking toward. It looks better than this year, to be sure. Is that group ready to make Washington a contender? Or does it not yet stand up to the leading defenses faced each season? Is that the progress we should expect in a fifth year?
We can project our guesses. Time will tell.

MikeDamone

When Cozzetto was fired the first time Doogman.com, in typical fashion, he was vilified and hated. When Sark included him in the "best staff in America", he suddenly became a great hire. We know what he is and who he is. He should have never been hired. Many of us said it at the time, but of course, that was just Nega talk.

And please, saying Sark is better than Willingham at anything is embarrassing. If that's the standard, then UW could have hired my drunk father on law on the couch and he would have done better..for just a couple of cases of Merlot.

Global

Agreed. If Sark can't get rid of Cozzetto, I will have to assume Cozzetto has compromising photos of Sark or something else.

MikeDamone

Global said:

Agreed. If Sark can't get rid of Cozzetto, I will have to assume Cozzetto has compromising photos of Sark or something else.

Allegedly.

TommySQC

MikeDamone said:

When Cozzetto was fired the first time Doogman.com, in typical fashion, he was vilified and hated. When Sark included him in the "best staff in America", he suddenly became a great hire. We know what he is and who he is. He should have never been hired. Many of us said it at the time, but of course, that was just Nega talk.

And please, saying Sark is better than Willingham at anything is embarrassing. If that's the standard, then UW could have hired my drunk father on law on the couch and he would have done better..for just a couple of cases of Merlot.

Merlot? How passe... every pedestrian vintner has a Merlot.

section8

^wine superiority guy

MikeDamone

TommySQC said:

MikeDamone said:

When Cozzetto was fired the first time Doogman.com, in typical fashion, he was vilified and hated. When Sark included him in the "best staff in America", he suddenly became a great hire. We know what he is and who he is. He should have never been hired. Many of us said it at the time, but of course, that was just Nega talk.

And please, saying Sark is better than Willingham at anything is embarrassing. If that's the standard, then UW could have hired my drunk father on law on the couch and he would have done better..for just a couple of cases of Merlot.

Merlot? How passe... every pedestrian vintner has a Merlot.

My father in law doesn't give a fuck. He'll drink anything.

RaceBannon

MikeDamone said:

When Cozzetto was fired the first time Doogman.com, in typical fashion, he was vilified and hated. When Sark included him in the "best staff in America", he suddenly became a great hire. We know what he is and who he is. He should have never been hired. Many of us said it at the time, but of course, that was just Nega talk.

And please, saying Sark is better than Willingham at anything is embarrassing. If that's the standard, then UW could have hired my drunk father on law on the couch and he would have done better..for just a couple of cases of Merlot.

Shades of J Smith IMO

WilburHooksHands

lmao @ people trying to have real convos about Husky football before 2016

EwaDawg

Global said:

We will see on Tosh. The results of his recruiting, if we look at Shaq thus far, look pretty good, but Shaq probably looks good as long as he tries. We will see if the guys Tosh recruits are slackers at the UW. I would wonder if there is a difference between the guys he recruits, versus the guys he coaches?

Just for clarity, I did not say Sark is stockpiling O-linemen talent, but that he is "doing better" than his predecessors recently at stockpiling "some linemen". A bunch (of mixed talent levels) were redshirted, and hopefully will start to show next year. I think neglecting is too strong a description, but agree that the OL is considerably under-addressed. We have been throwing true freshmen recruits (e.g., Kohler) into duty since the Willingham era, however, and that is rarely a recipe for success.

Back to the big issue, though, I think we need a change of OL coach, and if Sark does not do so, I will be more disturbed than ever. The OL of 2012 was a mess, and that was before injuries hit. After four years of Sark and Cozzetto, that is unacceptable.

Not a technically gifted reader, either.