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Easier than banning billionaires
Comments
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Seems like a solid way to kill capital investment!
There's a reason this idea dies as soon as anyone gets into office. -
Right. ‘Cuz nobody is gonna want to make money if capital gains treatment returns to the status it had for decades.
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I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
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So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
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In last night’s Democratic presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, moderator Charlie Gibson and Obama had the following exchange (courtesy of ABC News). Video is available here courtesy of the Say Anything blog.
GIBSON: All right. You have, however, said you would favor an increase in the capital gains tax. As a matter of fact, you said on CNBC, and I quote, “I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton,” which was 28 percent. It’s now 15 percent. That’s almost a doubling, if you went to 28 percent.
But actually, Bill Clinton, in 1997, signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And George Bush has taken it down to 15 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.
So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?
OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I’ve said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.
Fuck off -
You confused me with Barrack ObamaRaceBannon said:In last night’s Democratic presidential debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, moderator Charlie Gibson and Obama had the following exchange (courtesy of ABC News). Video is available here courtesy of the Say Anything blog.
GIBSON: All right. You have, however, said you would favor an increase in the capital gains tax. As a matter of fact, you said on CNBC, and I quote, “I certainly would not go above what existed under Bill Clinton,” which was 28 percent. It’s now 15 percent. That’s almost a doubling, if you went to 28 percent.
But actually, Bill Clinton, in 1997, signed legislation that dropped the capital gains tax to 20 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And George Bush has taken it down to 15 percent.
OBAMA: Right.
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.
So why raise it at all, especially given the fact that 100 million people in this country own stock and would be affected?
OBAMA: Well, Charlie, what I’ve said is that I would look at raising the capital gains tax for purposes of fairness.
Fuck off
again. We all look alike, of course. -
No I didn't confuse you at all. You're just as stupid when it comes to tax policy
How is your call to raise capital gains taxes different than calling to raise capital gains taxes?
Revenues go down so it can't be for the deficit. You could tax billionaires at 100% as long as they had money and the government would still outspend it
Your plan is nothing more than some fucktarded idea of fairness just like Obama -
Sorry. Revenues won’t go down if gains are simply taxed as ordinary income, just like wages. I think the Laffer Curve has simply produced confusion for you. Ordinary income tax rates are not now high enough to kill incentives to work and invest.RaceBannon said:No I didn't confuse you at all. You're just as stupid when it comes to tax policy
How is your call to raise capital gains taxes different than calling to raise capital gains taxes?
Revenues go down so it can't be for the deficit. You could tax billionaires at 100% as long as they had money and the government would still outspend it
Your plan is nothing more than some fucktarded idea of fairness just like Obama -
Take it up with actual factsHHusky said:
Sorry. Revenues won’t go down if gains are simply income just like wages. I think the Laffer Curve has simply produced confusion for you. Ordinary income tax rates are not now high enough to kill incentives to work and invest.RaceBannon said:No I didn't confuse you at all. You're just as stupid when it comes to tax policy
How is your call to raise capital gains taxes different than calling to raise capital gains taxes?
Revenues go down so it can't be for the deficit. You could tax billionaires at 100% as long as they had money and the government would still outspend it
Your plan is nothing more than some fucktarded idea of fairness just like Obama
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down. -
I know this is hard for you but this is not a binary equation. Raise rates, investment decreases, gains decrease, and revenue from taxes decrease. No one is saying that it will KILL off investment. JFC.HHusky said:
Sorry. Revenues won’t go down if gains are simply taxed as ordinary income, just like wages. I think the Laffer Curve has simply produced confusion for you. Ordinary income tax rates are not now high enough to kill incentives to work and invest.RaceBannon said:No I didn't confuse you at all. You're just as stupid when it comes to tax policy
How is your call to raise capital gains taxes different than calling to raise capital gains taxes?
Revenues go down so it can't be for the deficit. You could tax billionaires at 100% as long as they had money and the government would still outspend it
Your plan is nothing more than some fucktarded idea of fairness just like Obama -
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.
Two points here:
1. Every tax policy change in US history has been followed shortly thereafter by increased tax revenue. That’s a function of US economic growth.
2. Capital gains collections doubled between 1985 and 1986 in anticipation of the rate hike. They then “declined” to an amount that was higher than any previous year but 1986 and grew steadily from there.
Don’t quit your day job.
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Mine goes in the basement next to the cheetos
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No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
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Except that didn't happen for Trump's tax cut. Revenues were about flat. And that was with explosive growth in the economy according to our president.RaceBannon said:
Take it up with actual factsHHusky said:
Sorry. Revenues won’t go down if gains are simply income just like wages. I think the Laffer Curve has simply produced confusion for you. Ordinary income tax rates are not now high enough to kill incentives to work and invest.RaceBannon said:No I didn't confuse you at all. You're just as stupid when it comes to tax policy
How is your call to raise capital gains taxes different than calling to raise capital gains taxes?
Revenues go down so it can't be for the deficit. You could tax billionaires at 100% as long as they had money and the government would still outspend it
Your plan is nothing more than some fucktarded idea of fairness just like Obama
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down. -
Say you are in the top tax bracket. You have a million dollar investment in the table that is going to be worth $3 million in 10 years.UW_Doog_Bot said:Seems like a solid way to kill capital investment!
There's a reason this idea dies as soon as anyone gets into office.
Currently you'll pay $400k in taxes and take home $1.6 million. If rate went up 40%. You'd take home only $1.2 million.
Your comment suggests you wouldn't do the deal if the tax rate was 40%. And that's exactly why you aren't a business owner. -
Leave it to Hondo to build that strawman. Never disappoints.2001400ex said:
Except that didn't happen for Trump's tax cut. Revenues were about flat. And that was with explosive growth in the economy according to our president.RaceBannon said:
Take it up with actual factsHHusky said:
Sorry. Revenues won’t go down if gains are simply income just like wages. I think the Laffer Curve has simply produced confusion for you. Ordinary income tax rates are not now high enough to kill incentives to work and invest.RaceBannon said:No I didn't confuse you at all. You're just as stupid when it comes to tax policy
How is your call to raise capital gains taxes different than calling to raise capital gains taxes?
Revenues go down so it can't be for the deficit. You could tax billionaires at 100% as long as they had money and the government would still outspend it
Your plan is nothing more than some fucktarded idea of fairness just like Obama
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.
Capital gains tax wasn’t cut in the tax bill. Please try to follow along. -
All taxes are the same to Hondo. Payroll, income, excise, cap gains, they are all "essentially" the same inside of his pea sized brain.MikeDamone said:
Leave it to Hondo to build that strawman. Never disappoints.2001400ex said:
Except that didn't happen for Trump's tax cut. Revenues were about flat. And that was with explosive growth in the economy according to our president.RaceBannon said:
Take it up with actual factsHHusky said:
Sorry. Revenues won’t go down if gains are simply income just like wages. I think the Laffer Curve has simply produced confusion for you. Ordinary income tax rates are not now high enough to kill incentives to work and invest.RaceBannon said:No I didn't confuse you at all. You're just as stupid when it comes to tax policy
How is your call to raise capital gains taxes different than calling to raise capital gains taxes?
Revenues go down so it can't be for the deficit. You could tax billionaires at 100% as long as they had money and the government would still outspend it
Your plan is nothing more than some fucktarded idea of fairness just like Obama
GIBSON: And in each instance, when the rate dropped, revenues from the tax increased; the government took in more money. And in the 1980s, when the tax was increased to 28 percent, the revenues went down.
Capital gains tax wasn’t cut in the tax bill. Please try to follow along. -
Wouldn’t it be better to just seize all the Nice shit Rich people have and put it back to the People in a TV Reality Show National Lottery?
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Many such changes are phased in. The ability to defer earnings is already present. This President has started a trade war and shuttered government. But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?greenblood said:
No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
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Is this a fucking Hondo alt? Your arguments are a cobbled together mess of fallacies.HHusky said:
Many such changes are phased in. The ability to defer earnings is already present. This President has started a trade war and shuttered government. But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?greenblood said:
No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
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Of course. You just can’t be bothered to address them.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Is this a fucking Hondo alt? Your arguments are a cobbled together mess of fallacies.HHusky said:
Many such changes are phased in. The ability to defer earnings is already present. This President has started a trade war and shuttered government. But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?greenblood said:
No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
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Bham part 2UW_Doog_Bot said:
Is this a fucking Hondo alt? Your arguments are a cobbled together mess of fallacies.HHusky said:
Many such changes are phased in. The ability to defer earnings is already present. This President has started a trade war and shuttered government. But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?greenblood said:
No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
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I’m new around here. Inside joke?
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Absolutely it does.HHusky said:
Many such changes are phased in. The ability to defer earnings is already present. This President has started a trade war and shuttered government. But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?greenblood said:
No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
The trade war only effects certain industries, and the market is expecting some sort of resolution.
The government partial shutdown is completely overblown unless you work in certain areas of government. Essential projects are still being funded, so a lot of companies that manufacture for the military are still getting paid.
Changing the tax rate from Capital Gains to Ordinary Income devalues the entire stock market by 20%. This will force large traders in the market to sell their investments and take a 20% tax hit, rather than waiting and take a 40% tax hit. I'm sure a massive sell off is something every president loves to deal with. If you own $2,000,000 in gains, would you pay your 20% now or wait and pay 40% later? After they sell off then yeah, they'll buy back in, but they won't buy back at the same levels.
It will take years for the market to return to the levels before the change, which will impact a significant amount of middle class retirement plans. Sounds like that's something you are for. -
Respectfully, you're a faggotHHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
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Fuck offHHusky said:I’m new around here. Inside joke?
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What I learned from this thread -
The networks have fired people like Gibson and hired people that won't ask such hard questions of presidential candidates -
To address your poor ability to reason or your continued use of fallacious arguments?HHusky said:
Of course. You just can’t be bothered to address them.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Is this a fucking Hondo alt? Your arguments are a cobbled together mess of fallacies.HHusky said:
Many such changes are phased in. The ability to defer earnings is already present. This President has started a trade war and shuttered government. But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?greenblood said:
No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
Many such changes are phased in.(Bandwagon Fallacy) The ability to defer earnings is already present. (Begging the question) This President has started a trade war and shuttered government.(Red Herring and/or Tu Quoque) But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?(False Dichotomy)
I'll let @MikeDamone check my work. -
He can innumerate his responses?UW_Doog_Bot said:
To address your poor ability to reason or your continued use of fallacious arguments?HHusky said:
Of course. You just can’t be bothered to address them.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Is this a fucking Hondo alt? Your arguments are a cobbled together mess of fallacies.HHusky said:
Many such changes are phased in. The ability to defer earnings is already present. This President has started a trade war and shuttered government. But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?greenblood said:
No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
Many such changes are phased in.(Bandwagon Fallacy) The ability to defer earnings is already present. (Begging the question) This President has started a trade war and shuttered government.(Red Herring and/or Tu Quoque) But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?(False Dichotomy)
I'll let @MikeDamone check my work. -
Keep trying C-dawg. Someday it'll happen for you.CirrhosisDawg said:
He can innumerate his responses?UW_Doog_Bot said:
To address your poor ability to reason or your continued use of fallacious arguments?HHusky said:
Of course. You just can’t be bothered to address them.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Is this a fucking Hondo alt? Your arguments are a cobbled together mess of fallacies.HHusky said:
Many such changes are phased in. The ability to defer earnings is already present. This President has started a trade war and shuttered government. But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?greenblood said:
No but 30 seconds after the announcement, the stock market will drop 2,000-3,000 points, because the valuation of the stock market would be turned upside down. You don’t think there will be massive selling to capitalize on the capital gains tax before the shift to ordinary income? That’s always a great policy plan for any president. You will also see a massive change in investment vehicles, which will create complete chaos on Wall Street. Most of this shift will be towards real estate where people can defer earnings through 1031 exchanges. Any president that allows that will be a guaranteed one term president. Won’t ever happen.HHusky said:
So if capital gains are taxed as ordinary income, your money goes straight under your mattress. Respectfully, that’s bullshit.UW_Doog_Bot said:I'm hearing that taxing cigarettes is an effective way to reduce consumption.
Many such changes are phased in.(Bandwagon Fallacy) The ability to defer earnings is already present. (Begging the question) This President has started a trade war and shuttered government.(Red Herring and/or Tu Quoque) But the disruption caused by changing the tax treatment of capital gains alarms you?(False Dichotomy)
I'll let @MikeDamone check my work.
