"Most of Europe Is a Lot Poorer than Most of the United States"
https://fee.org/articles/most-of-europe-is-a-lot-poorer-than-most-of-the-united-states/
None of this suggests that policy in America is ideal (it isn’t) or that European nations are failures (they still rank among the wealthiest places on the planet).
I’m simply making the modest — yet important — argument that Europeans would be more prosperous if the fiscal burden of government wasn’t so onerous. And I’m debunking the argument that we should copy nations such as Denmark by allowing a larger government in the United States (though I do want to copy Danish policies in other areas, which generally are more pro-economic liberty than what we have in America).
Comments
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Normal thinking people who travel and drink and know things say no shit. The GDP of the US and Europe are about the same. Europe has almosyt twice as many people. Simple fact.
But they are so enlightened and shit. We should copy them. -
Or just throw away our freedom for a hondo led police state.MikeDamone said:Normal thinking people who travel and drink and know things say no shit. The GDP of the US and Europe are about the same. Europe has almosyt twice as many people. Simple fact.
But they are so enlightened and shit. We should copy them. -
Wait until the socialist/commies get more of their own guys in there and we'll be down with China.
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Better to be upper middle class or rich in the US vs Europe. The pours in the higher GDP countries in Europe are probably better off than here, but that's a trade off.
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Not necessarily since this is comparing Purchasing Power Parity aka apples to apples. Things like housing in Europe and other developed and "older" nations are stupid expensive. It's like being a poor in Seattle or the bay area. Either that or you've got former communist countries where there's abundant housing but it is god-awful.YellowSnow said:Better to be upper middle class or rich in the US vs Europe. The pours in the higher GDP countries in Europe are probably better off than here, but that's a trade off.
As Damone said, for anyone that has traveled this is 100% a no shit no brainer.
Even in my time in Japan which was relatively short I was struck by how much I felt that we were only a generation or so removed from poverty/development.
Most lefties like to assume that ex-pats and well traveled people learn how enlightened the rest of the world is. That's pretty much only if you are a tourist. Spend some time living and working in other countries and you quickly realize how fucking tits we have it in the good old U-S of A. -
ThEy ArEN't DoIng REal SocIaLisM!!!11
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Dutch chicks are dtf.
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The Euros live like shit.
I base that on watching numerous episodes of House Hunters International and their shitty $3000 per month studio apartments.
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My daughter’s in London and has commented on the lack of choices for basic consumer goods. She had the flu and wanted to buy some over the counter medicine but had to take what the pharmacist gave her. No Theraflu, no Alka Seltzer, no whatever. That’s the problem when socialism creeps into the market place, competition (and choice) dries up.
It’s the same for razors, soap, snacks, etc. -
Free pub.Pitchfork51 said:
Or just throw away our freedom for a hondo led police state.MikeDamone said:Normal thinking people who travel and drink and know things say no shit. The GDP of the US and Europe are about the same. Europe has almosyt twice as many people. Simple fact.
But they are so enlightened and shit. We should copy them. -
Years ago I worked with a guy from Holland who was amazed that he could buy land and a house here and get promoted based on merit not blood
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Jeezus @UW_Doog_Bot I may not be as well traveled as you, Sir, but I have traveled the world a bit. Hell me @creepycoug have both spent tim in the slums of London's East End where the followers of the Prophet Mohamed live.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Not necessarily since this is comparing Purchasing Power Parity aka apples to apples. Things like housing in Europe and other developed and "older" nations are stupid expensive. It's like being a poor in Seattle or the bay area. Either that or you've got former communist countries where there's abundant housing but it is god-awful.YellowSnow said:Better to be upper middle class or rich in the US vs Europe. The pours in the higher GDP countries in Europe are probably better off than here, but that's a trade off.
As Damone said, for anyone that has traveled this is 100% a no shit no brainer.
Even in my time in Japan which was relatively short I was struck by how much I felt that we were only a generation or so removed from poverty/development.
Most lefties like to assume that ex-pats and well traveled people learn how enlightened the rest of the world is. That's pretty much only if you are a tourist. Spend some time living and working in other countries and you quickly realize how fucking tits we have it in the good old U-S of A.
Look, I think this is topic- i.e., in which 1st world country do the pours have it best - requires a bit of nuance. Yes, pours in the US have mor purchasing power and this is a big component of standard of living. But we could also say that some countries, Germany for instance, do a better job that us? of sorting out HS aged kids into who is college material and who needs to learn a trade. -
Only the first paragraph was in response to you specifically. The rest was in response to the overall thread and speaking from my own experience. actually hth.YellowSnow said:
Jeezus @UW_Doog_Bot I may not be as well traveled as you, Sir, but I have traveled the world a bit. Hell me @creepycoug have both spent tim in the slums of London's East End where the followers of the Prophet Mohamed live.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Not necessarily since this is comparing Purchasing Power Parity aka apples to apples. Things like housing in Europe and other developed and "older" nations are stupid expensive. It's like being a poor in Seattle or the bay area. Either that or you've got former communist countries where there's abundant housing but it is god-awful.YellowSnow said:Better to be upper middle class or rich in the US vs Europe. The pours in the higher GDP countries in Europe are probably better off than here, but that's a trade off.
As Damone said, for anyone that has traveled this is 100% a no shit no brainer.
Even in my time in Japan which was relatively short I was struck by how much I felt that we were only a generation or so removed from poverty/development.
Most lefties like to assume that ex-pats and well traveled people learn how enlightened the rest of the world is. That's pretty much only if you are a tourist. Spend some time living and working in other countries and you quickly realize how fucking tits we have it in the good old U-S of A.
Look, I think this is topic- i.e., in which 1st world country do the pours have it best - requires a bit of nuance. Yes, pours in the US have mor purchasing power and this is a big component of standard of living. But we could also say that some countries, Germany for instance, do a better job that us? of sorting out HS aged kids into who is college material and who needs to learn a trade.
You are definitely a lot more free to suffer the consequences of your own decisions in the good old US. Upward mobility is a lot easier though. It's a two edged sword.
Overall though, freer markets = more access at lower cost but hey, I guess you can get shitty health care in the UK for "free" if you aren't paying taxes.
I'd agree that we don't do a good job of setting people up for what "good enough" as a lifestyle looks like though. We also fail pretty hard at taking care of mentally ill and/or disabled people here. There's no compulsion about a baby sitter for people when the whole government baby sits every citizen. -
Also, is it any surprise that one of our most socialized institutions is super bad at responding to market demands?YellowSnow said:
Jeezus @UW_Doog_Bot I may not be as well traveled as you, Sir, but I have traveled the world a bit. Hell me @creepycoug have both spent tim in the slums of London's East End where the followers of the Prophet Mohamed live.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Not necessarily since this is comparing Purchasing Power Parity aka apples to apples. Things like housing in Europe and other developed and "older" nations are stupid expensive. It's like being a poor in Seattle or the bay area. Either that or you've got former communist countries where there's abundant housing but it is god-awful.YellowSnow said:Better to be upper middle class or rich in the US vs Europe. The pours in the higher GDP countries in Europe are probably better off than here, but that's a trade off.
As Damone said, for anyone that has traveled this is 100% a no shit no brainer.
Even in my time in Japan which was relatively short I was struck by how much I felt that we were only a generation or so removed from poverty/development.
Most lefties like to assume that ex-pats and well traveled people learn how enlightened the rest of the world is. That's pretty much only if you are a tourist. Spend some time living and working in other countries and you quickly realize how fucking tits we have it in the good old U-S of A.
Look, I think this is topic- i.e., in which 1st world country do the pours have it best - requires a bit of nuance. Yes, pours in the US have mor purchasing power and this is a big component of standard of living. But we could also say that some countries, Germany for instance, do a better job that us? of sorting out HS aged kids into who is college material and who needs to learn a trade.
I'm for socialized education costs don't twist. I just would rather it was closer to single payer model and not a universal model. -
GDP per capita is not a good tool for this comparison. You have to factor in distribution of wealth and how robust the social safety net is.
In the US GDP distribution is concentrated at the top and our social programs are severely lacking. Most Euros have much more equal distribution of wealth and comprehensive safety nets. This in addition to much stronger workers rights which balance the power of capital and labor. -
This is fucking retarded logic. Not even worth engaging with. If this appeals to you, you're an idiot.GrundleStiltzkin said:Two years old, but still, just what I'm hearing out here.
https://fee.org/articles/most-of-europe-is-a-lot-poorer-than-most-of-the-united-states/
None of this suggests that policy in America is ideal (it isn’t) or that European nations are failures (they still rank among the wealthiest places on the planet).
I’m simply making the modest — yet important — argument that Europeans would be more prosperous if the fiscal burden of government wasn’t so onerous. And I’m debunking the argument that we should copy nations such as Denmark by allowing a larger government in the United States (though I do want to copy Danish policies in other areas, which generally are more pro-economic liberty than what we have in America). -
Equal distribution of wealth = poorerHardlyClothed said:GDP per capita is not a good tool for this comparison. You have to factor in distribution of wealth and how robust the social safety net is.
In the US GDP distribution is concentrated at the top and our social programs are severely lacking. Most Euros have much more equal distribution of wealth and comprehensive safety nets. This in addition to much stronger workers rights which balance the power of capital and labor. -
The owners of capital whose largesse is more limited are poorer, sureRaceBannon said:
Equal distribution of wealth = poorerHardlyClothed said:GDP per capita is not a good tool for this comparison. You have to factor in distribution of wealth and how robust the social safety net is.
In the US GDP distribution is concentrated at the top and our social programs are severely lacking. Most Euros have much more equal distribution of wealth and comprehensive safety nets. This in addition to much stronger workers rights which balance the power of capital and labor. -
No the top does great regardless. Europe has some of the richest families on earth.
People in Venezuela finally have an equal distribution of wealth. They don't even have toilet paper but the Chavez daughter has billions of dollars
Big risk big reward. If you want your future to be secure and settled be ready to settle for less -
The elite love socialism. Tax the shit out of the middle and upper middle class that are trying to take their spot on top. Buy the votes of the poor with "free" shit that is paid for via reduced earning potential and job creation. That's been the game for years over there.
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Said it better than I didPurpleJ said:The elite love socialism. Tax the shit out of the middle and upper middle class that are trying to take their spot on top. Buy the votes of the poor with "free" shit that is paid for via reduced earning potential and job creation. That's been the game for years over there.
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The top in Europe does well but gets taxed much more to pay for popular social programs.RaceBannon said:No the top does great regardless. Europe has some of the richest families on earth.
People in Venezuela finally have an equal distribution of wealth. They don't even have toilet paper but the Chavez daughter has billions of dollars
Big risk big reward. If you want your future to be secure and settled be ready to settle for less
Venezuela! It’s the only socialist country in the world from which to compare. -
How about disposable median income? Kind of destroys your whole point about income disparity.HardlyClothed said:GDP per capita is not a good tool for this comparison. You have to factor in distribution of wealth and how robust the social safety net is.
In the US GDP distribution is concentrated at the top and our social programs are severely lacking. Most Euros have much more equal distribution of wealth and comprehensive safety nets. This in addition to much stronger workers rights which balance the power of capital and labor.
Edit: I'll help the leftists out, there's literally only ONE country on there where the adjusted disposable median income is actually WAY HIGHER than the GDP per capita. In other words, the thing you are complaining about on the original chart actually FUCKS your own argument that it's simply GDP being "in the hands of the 1%" and unequally distributed. -
We can compare any of them and the end result is the sameHardlyClothed said:
The top in Europe does well but gets taxed much more to pay for popular social programs.RaceBannon said:No the top does great regardless. Europe has some of the richest families on earth.
People in Venezuela finally have an equal distribution of wealth. They don't even have toilet paper but the Chavez daughter has billions of dollars
Big risk big reward. If you want your future to be secure and settled be ready to settle for less
Venezuela! It’s the only socialist country in the world from which to compare.
Europe has never had the kind of immigration we always have had and are close societies by and large that are now feeling the love from the refugee influx
They also have us to pay for their defense since the stupid fucks can't go ten years without wiping each other out -
I have a friend who moved to Canada. Got a job doing IT work for their IRS. At first, he bragged about his FREE healthcare and how great Canada was. He was real smug about how great socialism was going. A few years later, he is living at his wive's parents' place crying about Trump on facebook. (Canadians love to talk about American politics. National pastime #2 behind hockey.) I tried to warn him before he moved out there, but he wouldn't hear anything about taxes being passed on to the consumer. Enjoy your utopia fuckface.
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If you're going to prop up failed economic models that have led to the death of millions why not Fascism that had the trains run on time or National Socialism that rebuilt Germany?
I'll tell you why, because your school tries to teach you that the obvious failure and high death toll of socialism or communism were a bug, not a feature
We have by far the best system for the most people and plenty left over for those who can't fend for themselves including Europe and our system destroyed Nazis, Fascists, and Communists -
unless you're already pour ... like @YellowSnowRaceBannon said:
Equal distribution of wealth = poorerHardlyClothed said:GDP per capita is not a good tool for this comparison. You have to factor in distribution of wealth and how robust the social safety net is.
In the US GDP distribution is concentrated at the top and our social programs are severely lacking. Most Euros have much more equal distribution of wealth and comprehensive safety nets. This in addition to much stronger workers rights which balance the power of capital and labor. -
This is true.RaceBannon said:No the top does great regardless. Europe has some of the richest families on earth.
People in Venezuela finally have an equal distribution of wealth. They don't even have toilet paper but the Chavez daughter has billions of dollars
Big risk big reward. If you want your future to be secure and settled be ready to settle for less -
J with the mic drop!!!!!!!!!RaceBannon said:
Said it better than I didPurpleJ said:The elite love socialism. Tax the shit out of the middle and upper middle class that are trying to take their spot on top. Buy the votes of the poor with "free" shit that is paid for via reduced earning potential and job creation. That's been the game for years over there.
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Them's fighting words.HardlyClothed said:GDP per capita is not a good tool for this comparison. You have to factor in distribution of wealth and how robust the social safety net is.
In the US GDP distribution is concentrated at the top and our social programs are severely lacking. Most Euros have much more equal distribution of wealth and comprehensive safety nets. This in addition to much stronger workers rights which balance the power of capital and labor.
