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9-11
WestlinnDuck
Member Posts: 17,557 
in Tug Tavern
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/
And here’s a passage from Lee Harris’s Civilization And Its Enemies.
Forgetfulness occurs when those who have been long inured to civilized order can no longer remember a time in which they had to wonder whether their crops would grow to maturity without being stolen or their children sold into slavery by a victorious foe.
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They forget that in time of danger, in the face of the Enemy, they must trust and confide in each other, or perish.
They forget, in short, that there has ever been a category of human experience called the Enemy. And that, before 9/11, was what had happened to us. The very concept of the Enemy had been banished from our moral and political vocabulary. An enemy was just a friend we hadn’t done enough for — yet. Or perhaps there had been a misunderstanding, or an oversight on our part — something that we could correct. And this means that that our first task is that we must try to grasp what the concept of the Enemy really means.
The Enemy is someone who is willing to die in order to kill you. And while it is true that the Enemy always hates us for a reason — it is his reason, and not ours.
I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating today.
One thing I guess I didn’t believe 17 years ago is that America would elect such a feckless President in 2008, and stand idly by while he flushed our global position, and security, down a left-wing toilet. But we did, and we’ll be paying the price for a long time.
God bless America. We need it.
And here’s a passage from Lee Harris’s Civilization And Its Enemies.
Forgetfulness occurs when those who have been long inured to civilized order can no longer remember a time in which they had to wonder whether their crops would grow to maturity without being stolen or their children sold into slavery by a victorious foe.
…
They forget that in time of danger, in the face of the Enemy, they must trust and confide in each other, or perish.
They forget, in short, that there has ever been a category of human experience called the Enemy. And that, before 9/11, was what had happened to us. The very concept of the Enemy had been banished from our moral and political vocabulary. An enemy was just a friend we hadn’t done enough for — yet. Or perhaps there had been a misunderstanding, or an oversight on our part — something that we could correct. And this means that that our first task is that we must try to grasp what the concept of the Enemy really means.
The Enemy is someone who is willing to die in order to kill you. And while it is true that the Enemy always hates us for a reason — it is his reason, and not ours.
I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating today.
One thing I guess I didn’t believe 17 years ago is that America would elect such a feckless President in 2008, and stand idly by while he flushed our global position, and security, down a left-wing toilet. But we did, and we’ll be paying the price for a long time.
God bless America. We need it.
Comments
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If you don't post this on Facebook and Twitter you don't really care about America.WestlinnDuck said:https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/
And here’s a passage from Lee Harris’s Civilization And Its Enemies.
Forgetfulness occurs when those who have been long inured to civilized order can no longer remember a time in which they had to wonder whether their crops would grow to maturity without being stolen or their children sold into slavery by a victorious foe.
…
They forget that in time of danger, in the face of the Enemy, they must trust and confide in each other, or perish.
They forget, in short, that there has ever been a category of human experience called the Enemy. And that, before 9/11, was what had happened to us. The very concept of the Enemy had been banished from our moral and political vocabulary. An enemy was just a friend we hadn’t done enough for — yet. Or perhaps there had been a misunderstanding, or an oversight on our part — something that we could correct. And this means that that our first task is that we must try to grasp what the concept of the Enemy really means.
The Enemy is someone who is willing to die in order to kill you. And while it is true that the Enemy always hates us for a reason — it is his reason, and not ours.
I’ve mentioned it before, but it bears repeating today.
One thing I guess I didn’t believe 17 years ago is that America would elect such a feckless President in 2008, and stand idly by while he flushed our global position, and security, down a left-wing toilet. But we did, and we’ll be paying the price for a long time.
God bless America. We need it. -
The biggest toilet flushing of our national security interests did not occur during the Obama administration. Rather, this happened in 2003 and were it not for this FS decision, Obama would never have been elected. Worst ROI for our country since 'Nam.
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But we ran out of hard targets in Afghanistan. So tell me Mr Smartie, what else COULD the military industrial complex do to further capitalize on the mass fear of its citizenry to maximize revenue???YellowSnow said:The biggest toilet flushing of our national security interests did not occur during the Obama administration. Rather, this happened in 2003 and were it not for this FS decision, Obama would never have been elected. Worst ROI for our country since 'Nam.
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We bombed the wrong country at the wrong time. We should have left Iraq alone and gave Iran and offer they couldn't refuse.salemcoog said:
But we ran out of hard targets in Afghanistan. So tell me Mr Smartie, what else COULD the military industrial complex do to further capitalize on the mass fear of its citizenry to maximize revenue???YellowSnow said:The biggest toilet flushing of our national security interests did not occur during the Obama administration. Rather, this happened in 2003 and were it not for this FS decision, Obama would never have been elected. Worst ROI for our country since 'Nam.
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Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
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Or.... we could have just left Iraq alone, period. No need to make any deals with Iran.YellowSnow said:
We bombed the wrong country at the wrong time. We should have left Iraq alone and gave Iran and offer they couldn't refuse.salemcoog said:
But we ran out of hard targets in Afghanistan. So tell me Mr Smartie, what else COULD the military industrial complex do to further capitalize on the mass fear of its citizenry to maximize revenue???YellowSnow said:The biggest toilet flushing of our national security interests did not occur during the Obama administration. Rather, this happened in 2003 and were it not for this FS decision, Obama would never have been elected. Worst ROI for our country since 'Nam.
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I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
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We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
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Obama didn't do shit right in Afghanistan. Has anyone here supported Obama's actions there?SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
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Yes, that's what I said. We had no leverage in dealing with Iran on nukes because the Ayatollahs knew we blew our wad in Iraq. Keeping one's powder dry for the right fight is of the utmost importance in international affairs.salemcoog said:
Or.... we could have just left Iraq alone, period. No need to make any deals with Iran.YellowSnow said:
We bombed the wrong country at the wrong time. We should have left Iraq alone and gave Iran and offer they couldn't refuse.salemcoog said:
But we ran out of hard targets in Afghanistan. So tell me Mr Smartie, what else COULD the military industrial complex do to further capitalize on the mass fear of its citizenry to maximize revenue???YellowSnow said:The biggest toilet flushing of our national security interests did not occur during the Obama administration. Rather, this happened in 2003 and were it not for this FS decision, Obama would never have been elected. Worst ROI for our country since 'Nam.
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Actually, Obama was entirely cynical about Afghanistan and used it during the campaign as a prop so that he couldn't be accused of being anti-war. He never followed through on any of his promises there and given the fact that he refused to give the generals the number of troops they requested and restricted the troops we did have there with completely ridiculous Rules of Engagement that got a number of our guys killed there. He was never going to really fight that war they way he claimed he was going to do.HardlyClothed said:
We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
And my response wasn't so much about "Obama's actions" as it was about the stupid fucking liberals who voted for him and repeated his bullshit about the "real" WOT. -
Ah if Obama had only given the big tough righteous military men even more troops and didn’t impose so many damn rules then we surely would have won. Just like Vietnam.SFGbob said:
Actually, Obama was entirely cynical about Afghanistan and used it during the campaign as a prop so that he couldn't be accused of being anti-war. He never followed through on any of his promises there and given the fact that he refused to give the generals the number of troops they requested and restricted the troops we did have there with completely ridiculous Rules of Engagement that got a number of our guys killed there. He was never going to really fight that war they way he claimed he was going to do.HardlyClothed said:
We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
And my response wasn't so much about "Obama's actions" as it was about the stupid fucking liberals who voted for him and repeated his bullshit about the "real" WOT. -
I blew up terrorists for Bush. Blew up some more for Obama.
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Obama got more troops killed than Bush which makes those rules kind of importantHardlyClothed said:
Ah if Obama had only given the big tough righteous military men even more troops and didn’t impose so many damn rules then we surely would have won. Just like Vietnam.SFGbob said:
Actually, Obama was entirely cynical about Afghanistan and used it during the campaign as a prop so that he couldn't be accused of being anti-war. He never followed through on any of his promises there and given the fact that he refused to give the generals the number of troops they requested and restricted the troops we did have there with completely ridiculous Rules of Engagement that got a number of our guys killed there. He was never going to really fight that war they way he claimed he was going to do.HardlyClothed said:
We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
And my response wasn't so much about "Obama's actions" as it was about the stupid fucking liberals who voted for him and repeated his bullshit about the "real" WOT.
If you aren't going to fight then go home
And we aren't going to fight so no more war -
The strawman's ass gets fucked.HardlyClothed said:
Ah if Obama had only given the big tough righteous military men even more troops and didn’t impose so many damn rules then we surely would have won. Just like Vietnam.SFGbob said:
Actually, Obama was entirely cynical about Afghanistan and used it during the campaign as a prop so that he couldn't be accused of being anti-war. He never followed through on any of his promises there and given the fact that he refused to give the generals the number of troops they requested and restricted the troops we did have there with completely ridiculous Rules of Engagement that got a number of our guys killed there. He was never going to really fight that war they way he claimed he was going to do.HardlyClothed said:
We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
And my response wasn't so much about "Obama's actions" as it was about the stupid fucking liberals who voted for him and repeated his bullshit about the "real" WOT.
Obama was the one who criticized Bush for taking his eye off the ball in Afghanistan in order to fight in Iraq, and who promised to kick some ass in the "real" war on terrorism when he took office.
Now he was lying the entire time. I just found it funny that his idiot supporters believed him and used to mouth the very same bullshit he was spreading. Obama never had any intention of fighting and winning in Afghanistan. -
Your homoerotic fetish just got weird.SFGbob said:
The strawman's ass gets fucked.HardlyClothed said:
Ah if Obama had only given the big tough righteous military men even more troops and didn’t impose so many damn rules then we surely would have won. Just like Vietnam.SFGbob said:
Actually, Obama was entirely cynical about Afghanistan and used it during the campaign as a prop so that he couldn't be accused of being anti-war. He never followed through on any of his promises there and given the fact that he refused to give the generals the number of troops they requested and restricted the troops we did have there with completely ridiculous Rules of Engagement that got a number of our guys killed there. He was never going to really fight that war they way he claimed he was going to do.HardlyClothed said:
We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
And my response wasn't so much about "Obama's actions" as it was about the stupid fucking liberals who voted for him and repeated his bullshit about the "real" WOT.
Obama was the one who criticized Bush for taking his eye off the ball in Afghanistan in order to fight in Iraq, and who promised to kick some ass in the "real" war on terrorism when he took office.
Now he was lying the entire time. I just found it funny that his idiot supporters believed him and used to mouth the very same bullshit he was spreading. Obama never had any intention of fighting and winning in Afghanistan.
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Ironic coming from "trump dick sucker hondo"2001400ex said:
Your homoerotic fetish just got weird.SFGbob said:
The strawman's ass gets fucked.HardlyClothed said:
Ah if Obama had only given the big tough righteous military men even more troops and didn’t impose so many damn rules then we surely would have won. Just like Vietnam.SFGbob said:
Actually, Obama was entirely cynical about Afghanistan and used it during the campaign as a prop so that he couldn't be accused of being anti-war. He never followed through on any of his promises there and given the fact that he refused to give the generals the number of troops they requested and restricted the troops we did have there with completely ridiculous Rules of Engagement that got a number of our guys killed there. He was never going to really fight that war they way he claimed he was going to do.HardlyClothed said:
We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
And my response wasn't so much about "Obama's actions" as it was about the stupid fucking liberals who voted for him and repeated his bullshit about the "real" WOT.
Obama was the one who criticized Bush for taking his eye off the ball in Afghanistan in order to fight in Iraq, and who promised to kick some ass in the "real" war on terrorism when he took office.
Now he was lying the entire time. I just found it funny that his idiot supporters believed him and used to mouth the very same bullshit he was spreading. Obama never had any intention of fighting and winning in Afghanistan. -
Are you talking about Afghanistan specifically? Because more than twice as many military deaths occurred under Bush when you look at both wars.RaceBannon said:
Obama got more troops killed than Bush which makes those rules kind of importantHardlyClothed said:
Ah if Obama had only given the big tough righteous military men even more troops and didn’t impose so many damn rules then we surely would have won. Just like Vietnam.SFGbob said:
Actually, Obama was entirely cynical about Afghanistan and used it during the campaign as a prop so that he couldn't be accused of being anti-war. He never followed through on any of his promises there and given the fact that he refused to give the generals the number of troops they requested and restricted the troops we did have there with completely ridiculous Rules of Engagement that got a number of our guys killed there. He was never going to really fight that war they way he claimed he was going to do.HardlyClothed said:
We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
And my response wasn't so much about "Obama's actions" as it was about the stupid fucking liberals who voted for him and repeated his bullshit about the "real" WOT.
If you aren't going to fight then go home
And we aren't going to fight so no more war -
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Another one of the things Trump did almost immediately after taking office was to remove the restrictive Rules of Engagement that were imposed by General Obama.RaceBannon said:
Obama got more troops killed than Bush which makes those rules kind of importantHardlyClothed said:
Ah if Obama had only given the big tough righteous military men even more troops and didn’t impose so many damn rules then we surely would have won. Just like Vietnam.SFGbob said:
Actually, Obama was entirely cynical about Afghanistan and used it during the campaign as a prop so that he couldn't be accused of being anti-war. He never followed through on any of his promises there and given the fact that he refused to give the generals the number of troops they requested and restricted the troops we did have there with completely ridiculous Rules of Engagement that got a number of our guys killed there. He was never going to really fight that war they way he claimed he was going to do.HardlyClothed said:
We covered this in an earlier thread about Obama using Afghanistan for campaign reasons in ‘08, and that he was actually naive enough to follow through with it. Do you need someone to take you in to the vinyl repair shop? Can’t wait to see which other lines are regurgitated.SFGbob said:
I'm old enough to remember when liberals used to claim that Afghanistan was where the "real" WOT was at and how when Obama took office he was going to finally kick some real ass there unlike that cowboy Bush who took his eye off the ball.HardlyClothed said:Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
And my response wasn't so much about "Obama's actions" as it was about the stupid fucking liberals who voted for him and repeated his bullshit about the "real" WOT.
If you aren't going to fight then go home
And we aren't going to fight so no more war -
ISAFNRCSwaye said:I blew up terrorists for Bush. Blew up some more for Obama.
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HardlyClothed said:
Someone born on 9/11 can now enlist to go fight and die in our unwinnable war in Afghanistan. God bless America indeed...
Or we could have just killed them all until they quit like how we used to run a war. They were quiet for 1,000 years for a fucking reason! HTHsalemcoog said:
Or.... we could have just left Iraq alone, period. No need to make any deals with Iran.YellowSnow said:
We bombed the wrong country at the wrong time. We should have left Iraq alone and gave Iran and offer they couldn't refuse.salemcoog said:
But we ran out of hard targets in Afghanistan. So tell me Mr Smartie, what else COULD the military industrial complex do to further capitalize on the mass fear of its citizenry to maximize revenue???YellowSnow said:The biggest toilet flushing of our national security interests did not occur during the Obama administration. Rather, this happened in 2003 and were it not for this FS decision, Obama would never have been elected. Worst ROI for our country since 'Nam.
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I need to break out my thumb drive full of post contact assessment photos. You’ll chafe yourself.YellowSnow said: -
I'm hard just thinking about it.USMChawk said:
I need to break out my thumb drive full of post contact assessment photos. You’ll chafe yourself.YellowSnow said: -
You ever do FAC? I fondly remember going feet dry into Iraq and checking in with "Warpath" for vectoring to the latest Marine on the ground with terrorists that needed a JDAM inserted into their ass.USMChawk said:
I need to break out my thumb drive full of post contact assessment photos. You’ll chafe yourself.YellowSnow said: -
Never did FAC. I was an LNO to 82nd Airborne, from MARCENT, in Afghanistan and went on a lot of DART, DV security, and Mortuary Affairs missions (all great and unique experiences). I was part of TF Ripper way back when, and have two tours in Iraq (one of which was a pure REMF tour, but hey...).Swaye said:
You ever do FAC? I fondly remember going feet dry into Iraq and checking in with "Warpath" for vectoring to the latest Marine on the ground with terrorists that needed a JDAM inserted into their ass.USMChawk said:
I need to break out my thumb drive full of post contact assessment photos. You’ll chafe yourself.YellowSnow said: -
Does that shit come Engrish for us plebs?USMChawk said:
Never did FAC. I was an LNO to 82nd Airborne, from MARCENT, in Afghanistan and went on a lot of DART, DV security, and Mortuary Affairs missions (all great and unique experiences). I was part of TF Ripper way back when, and have two tours in Iraq (one of which was a pure REMF tour, but hey...).Swaye said:
You ever do FAC? I fondly remember going feet dry into Iraq and checking in with "Warpath" for vectoring to the latest Marine on the ground with terrorists that needed a JDAM inserted into their ass.USMChawk said:
I need to break out my thumb drive full of post contact assessment photos. You’ll chafe yourself.YellowSnow said: -
FAC = Forward Air Controlpawz said:
Does that shit come Engrish for us plebs?USMChawk said:
Never did FAC. I was an LNO to 82nd Airborne, from MARCENT, in Afghanistan and went on a lot of DART, DV security, and Mortuary Affairs missions (all great and unique experiences). I was part of TF Ripper way back when, and have two tours in Iraq (one of which was a pure REMF tour, but hey...).Swaye said:
You ever do FAC? I fondly remember going feet dry into Iraq and checking in with "Warpath" for vectoring to the latest Marine on the ground with terrorists that needed a JDAM inserted into their ass.USMChawk said:
I need to break out my thumb drive full of post contact assessment photos. You’ll chafe yourself.YellowSnow said:
LNO = Liaison Officer
MARCENT = Marine Central Command
DART = Downed Aircraft Recovery Team
DV = Distinguished Visitor
TF = Task Force
REMF = Rear Echelon Mother Fucker
HondoFS = Hondo Fucking Stupid -
Too much war imagery.YellowSnow said:
