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Why you should care that a Neo Nazi website got shut down

oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288
edited August 2017 in Tug Tavern
slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2017/08/the_one_big_problem_with_godaddy_dropping_the_daily_stormer.html

I hate Nazis as much as the next fucktard. But this America. Free speech is free speech. It's a dangerous, slippery slope when internet companies like Google, GoDaddy, Paypal, YouTube and others are allowed to silence the speech of those they disagree with, by denying service. Paypal has indicated it won't accept the business of those whose political views they disagree with. A hotel booking company denied booking services to those who went to Charlottesville to attend that rally. You can try to make the argument that they can do whatever they want, they're a corporation or whatever. Shit doesn't fly when we're talking about the purveyors of information.

Free speech needs to be protected online as much as it's protected in real life. Google and its pet dog Youtube silence free speech by removing content they deem 'offensive.' They also deny advertising dollars to sites that don't fit neatly into their political world view. Facebook removed German users who dared to criticize Merkel's insane immigration (moslem invasion) policy. But who are 'they' and what right do they have to decide what's offensive and what isn't? What happens when they decide your views are offensive and they come to silence you. It's not an if, it's a when, if this kind of behavior from internet companies is allowed to continue.
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  • oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288
    edited August 2017
    RaceBannon said:

    They are a for profit business. No way around that. As long as they bake cakes for gay couples they should be ok

    Your free market argument only goes so far. We aren't talking about Amazon or Ebay here. We are talking about who controls the flow of information and who decides what is offensive and what isn't, we're talking about free speech and denying access to other points of view.
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  • oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288
    You need look no further than Canada to see the end result of this kind of totalitarianism. It's still in its infancy here and needs to be aborted before it escapes the womb. You can be fined there for telling the wrong kind of joke, and jailed if you can't pay. They have 'tribunals' that basically decide what is offensive and what isn't, what kind of speech is allowed and what kind of speech will be silenced. Fight the system there and you will pay the price and even have your career/livelihood stripped away from you.
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  • SwayeSwaye Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 41,422 Founders Club
    RaceBannon said:

    oregonblitzkrieg said:

    RaceBannon said:

    They are a for profit business. No way around that. As long as they bake cakes for gay couples they should be ok

    Your free market argument only goes so far. We aren't talking about Amazon or Ebay here. We are talking about who controls the flow of information and who decides what is offensive and what isn't by denying access to other points of view.
    I just wanted to get the bakery shot in. The rationale being that you can't discriminate even in a private business.

    I wonder if google would be held to the same standard since they are on the "right" side. You could probably come up with some interstate commerce clause to not allow them to discriminate.

    I'm not comfortable with the state telling them what to do but they are acting like the state.

    Which sounds like something a statist would say

    The other answer is let the white power folks get their own hotel booking site but I suspect google and the others wouldn't stop there

    These folks live in fear of bad social media
    Dialed in.
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  • NEsnake12NEsnake12 Member Posts: 3,792
    Agree that corporations like Google shouldn't have that level of control over what information we view. But it starts with net neutrality.

    Google has a lot of control over the flow of information on the internet but at least there are easily accessible alternatives to it. Kill net neutrality and it'll open a door for ISP's to have free reign to regulate what content you get... but the difference is some of whom have virtual monopolies on internet service in some areas of the country. OBK you talk about slippery slopes... that's a massive one.

    Trump's FCC chair has made it abundantly clear he's anti-net neutrality, and they're moving toward killing it. It's a blatant move against free speech on the internet. For all of you who hate the mainstream media... you'll hate it more when they can afford to pay Comcast more $$ for faster speeds while smaller alternative news sources get screwed because they can't afford to compete on that level.

    And fuck off to anyone who is pro-open internet and isn't worried about this... there's a reason why ISP's are spending ridiculous amounts of money lobbying for this.
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  • oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288
    NEsnake12 said:

    Agree that corporations like Google shouldn't have that level of control over what information we view. But it starts with net neutrality.

    Google has a lot of control over the flow of information on the internet but at least there are easily accessible alternatives to it. Kill net neutrality and it'll open a door for ISP's to have free reign to regulate what content you get... but the difference is some of whom have virtual monopolies on internet service in some areas of the country. OBK you talk about slippery slopes... that's a massive one.

    Trump's FCC chair has made it abundantly clear he's anti-net neutrality, and they're moving toward killing it. It's a blatant move against free speech on the internet. For all of you who hate the mainstream media... you'll hate it more when they can afford to pay Comcast more $$ for faster speeds while smaller alternative news sources get screwed because they can't afford to compete on that level.

    And fuck off to anyone who is pro-open internet and isn't worried about this... there's a reason why ISP's are spending ridiculous amounts of money lobbying for this.

    YBFE
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  • phineasphineas Member Posts: 4,732
    NEsnake12 said:

    Agree that corporations like Google shouldn't have that level of control over what information we view. But it starts with net neutrality.

    Google has a lot of control over the flow of information on the internet but at least there are easily accessible alternatives to it. Kill net neutrality and it'll open a door for ISP's to have free reign to regulate what content you get... but the difference is some of whom have virtual monopolies on internet service in some areas of the country. OBK you talk about slippery slopes... that's a massive one.

    Trump's FCC chair has made it abundantly clear he's anti-net neutrality, and they're moving toward killing it. It's a blatant move against free speech on the internet. For all of you who hate the mainstream media... you'll hate it more when they can afford to pay Comcast more $$ for faster speeds while smaller alternative news sources get screwed because they can't afford to compete on that level.

    And fuck off to anyone who is pro-open internet and isn't worried about this... there's a reason why ISP's are spending ridiculous amounts of money lobbying for this.

    I've been trying to understand this net nutrality shit. Good post thanks
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  • oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288
    edited August 2017
    BearsWiin said:

    No state institution involved so no First Amendment issue, no aggrieved status, no protected class. Looking at any case involving denial of service to Nazis, a court would rule on rational basis and find for the company, if they deigned to take the case at all. NeoNazis want to get The Word out, they can stand on fucking streetcorners and hand out flyers like the Original Gangsta Brownshirts did.

    Nazis are trash. So are racists like Louis Farrakhan. I know you don't like free speech at Berkeley. Free speech is dangerous and harmful to the students so it's important to cancel speeches by people who don't share their particular worldview so as not to offend anyone. I doubt you would have the same opinion if Farrakhan and his racist Islamist followers had their websites taken down. After all, they fit within the mold of what is approved by the cultural overlords.
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  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 105,458 Founders Club
    BearsWiin said:

    No state institution involved so no First Amendment issue, no aggrieved status, no protected class. Looking at any case involving denial of service to Nazis, a court would rule on rational basis and find for the company, if they deigned to take the case at all. NeoNazis want to get The Word out, they can stand on fucking streetcorners and hand out flyers like the Original Gangsta Brownshirts did.

    OBK doesn't like it but Gays are protected by civil rights legislation and Nazis aren't. Good answer BEAR fan
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  • oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288
    What happens if you're a gay Nazi wanting to start a website to air your views. Will they shut you down for being a Nazi? Or will they protect you for being gay?
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  • BearsWiinBearsWiin Member Posts: 5,033
    oregonblitzkrieg said:

    BearsWiin said:

    No state institution involved so no First Amendment issue, no aggrieved status, no protected class. Looking at any case involving denial of service to Nazis, a court would rule on rational basis and find for the company, if they deigned to take the case at all. NeoNazis want to get The Word out, they can stand on fucking streetcorners and hand out flyers like the Original Gangsta Brownshirts did.

    Nazis are trash. So are racists like Louis Farrakhan. I know you don't like free speech at Berkeley. Free speech is dangerous and harmful to the students so it's important to cancel speeches by people who don't share their particular worldview so as not to offend anyone. I doubt you would have the same opinion if Farrakhan and his racist Islamist followers had their websites taken down. After all, they fit within the mold of what is approved by the cultural overlords.
    You really are a fucking imbecile.

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  • oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288
    BearsWiin said:

    oregonblitzkrieg said:

    BearsWiin said:

    No state institution involved so no First Amendment issue, no aggrieved status, no protected class. Looking at any case involving denial of service to Nazis, a court would rule on rational basis and find for the company, if they deigned to take the case at all. NeoNazis want to get The Word out, they can stand on fucking streetcorners and hand out flyers like the Original Gangsta Brownshirts did.

    Nazis are trash. So are racists like Louis Farrakhan. I know you don't like free speech at Berkeley. Free speech is dangerous and harmful to the students so it's important to cancel speeches by people who don't share their particular worldview so as not to offend anyone. I doubt you would have the same opinion if Farrakhan and his racist Islamist followers had their websites taken down. After all, they fit within the mold of what is approved by the cultural overlords.
    You really are a fucking imbecile.

    Goosestepper.
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  • TurdBomberTurdBomber Member Posts: 19,942 Standard Supporter
    oregonblitzkrieg said:

    You need look no further than Canada to see the end result of this kind of totalitarianism. It's still in its infancy here and needs to be aborted before it escapes the womb. You can be fined there for telling the wrong kind of joke, and jailed if you can't pay. They have 'tribunals' that basically decide what is offensive and what isn't, what kind of speech is allowed and what kind of speech will be silenced. Fight the system there and you will pay the price and even have your career/livelihood stripped away from you.

    And what was it that wedged open the door? Canada's embrace of European Socialism. Nobody wants to admit they go together.
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  • RedRocketRedRocket Member Posts: 1,527
    Sounds like the NeoNazis need to hire some devs in Mumbai to build and maintain a custom domain registrar for them. Maybe recruit some Indian or Asian computer science interns.
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  • oregonblitzkriegoregonblitzkrieg Member Posts: 15,288
    edited August 2017
    TurdBuffer said:

    oregonblitzkrieg said:

    You need look no further than Canada to see the end result of this kind of totalitarianism. It's still in its infancy here and needs to be aborted before it escapes the womb. You can be fined there for telling the wrong kind of joke, and jailed if you can't pay. They have 'tribunals' that basically decide what is offensive and what isn't, what kind of speech is allowed and what kind of speech will be silenced. Fight the system there and you will pay the price and even have your career/livelihood stripped away from you.

    And what was it that wedged open the door? Canada's embrace of European Socialism. Nobody wants to admit they go together.
    Socialism always ends in dictatorship. Always. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. National Socialism in Germany. Venezuela, etc.
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  • BasemanBaseman Member Posts: 12,365
    oregonblitzkrieg said:

    What happens if you're a gay Nazi wanting to start a website to air your views. Will they shut you down for being a Nazi? Or will they protect you for being gay?

    The Night of the Long Knives: See Ernst Rohm. (You're welcome)
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