Happy Midway Day
Comments
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My grandfather was there. He said Race fought bravely.
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When men were men America was America and no need for safe spaces.
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Sneaky white guys > sneaky yellow guys.BearsWiin said:75 years ago this afternoon, the most decisive 15 minutes in American military history
#codebreakers
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Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
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MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2.
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FREE PUB MOTHERFUCKERSPurpleThrobber said:
Sneaky white guys > sneaky yellow guys.BearsWiin said:75 years ago this afternoon, the most decisive 15 minutes in American military history
#codebreakerswindtalkers -
LeMay burned up more yellow people than VD.PurpleThrobber said:
MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2. -
More than the atom bombs. We fought war to win and keep our losses to a minimum not the enemies.Mosster47 said:
LeMay burned up more yellow people than VD.PurpleThrobber said:
MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2. -
Zhukov was a terrific general, but you can't judge a Soviet or German general by the same standards as an American (or British) one. The American people would have not been willing to stomach to casualties rates that Soviets were able to sustain on the Eastern Front. Same with the British. After the Somme in WWI they were going to let their boys get slaughtered on that scale again. Ike, Montgomery and Bradley had the luxury of being cautious and not wasting their soldiers lives unnecessarily. Rather, they could rely on overwhelming fire power, plenty of gas, and hordes of Russian divisions closing in from the East.PurpleThrobber said:
MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2.
MacArthur was vain, narcissistic, SOB, but a fuckwad he was not. Old Dugout Dug got a lot lower of a percentage his troops killed than did Nimitz with the Marines. I think between 1942 and the retaking of the Philippines, Mac lost few troops thank Ike did in one battle at the Bugle. Part of MacArthur's brilliance, was that just skipped over their bases like Rabaul in New Britian where the Japanese had 100,000 troops stationed; he just let them wither on the vine. His handling of the occupation of Japan was amongst the brilliant bit of political leadership ever by an American, civilian or military. All that said, Truman was right to fire him.
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I think he (Nimitz) is easily held in as high of regard as both Patton and Mac if not more so. He certainly doesn't have the baggage that both of them do looking back from today.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
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It's mind boggling to consider how much the Japanese underestimated our industrial capacity. Consider at Midway, they lost 4 carriers and we? 1. After Midway, the Japanese were able to put 4 new carriers to sea, with shitty pilots flying the planes. We launched 17 new carriers post Midway. And we did so with 80% of the war effort going to the European theater. If there had ever been a Pacific War just between the US and Japan, we could have won it under 2 years, even without the bomb.
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One of my two dads was on his staff in Japan.YellowSnow said:
Zhukov was a terrific general, but you can't judge a Soviet or German general by the same standards as an American (or British) one. The American people would have not been willing to stomach to casualties rates that Soviets were able to sustain on the Eastern Front. Same with the British. After the Somme in WWI they were going to let their boys get slaughtered on that scale again. Ike, Montgomery and Bradley had the luxury of being cautious and not wasting their soldiers lives unnecessarily. Rather, they could rely on overwhelming fire power, plenty of gas, and hordes of Russian divisions closing in from the East.PurpleThrobber said:
MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2.
MacArthur was vain, narcissistic, SOB, but a fuckwad he was not. Old Dugout Dug got a lot lower of a percentage his troops killed than did Nimitz with the Marines. I think between 1942 and the retaking of the Philippines, Mac lost few troops thank Ike did in one battle at the Bugle. Part of MacArthur's brilliance, was that just skipped over their bases like Rabaul in New Britian where the Japanese had 100,000 troops stationed; he just let them wither on the vine. His handling of the occupation of Japan was amongst the brilliant bit of political leadership ever by an American, civilian or military. All that said, Truman was right to fire him.
I'm ok with the phrase "fuckwad".
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Fixed.PurpleThrobber said:
One of my two dads was on his staff in Japan, therefore I am MacArthur Superiority Guy.YellowSnow said:
Zhukov was a terrific general, but you can't judge a Soviet or German general by the same standards as an American (or British) one. The American people would have not been willing to stomach to casualties rates that Soviets were able to sustain on the Eastern Front. Same with the British. After the Somme in WWI they were going to let their boys get slaughtered on that scale again. Ike, Montgomery and Bradley had the luxury of being cautious and not wasting their soldiers lives unnecessarily. Rather, they could rely on overwhelming fire power, plenty of gas, and hordes of Russian divisions closing in from the East.PurpleThrobber said:
MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2.
MacArthur was vain, narcissistic, SOB, but a fuckwad he was not. Old Dugout Dug got a lot lower of a percentage his troops killed than did Nimitz with the Marines. I think between 1942 and the retaking of the Philippines, Mac lost few troops thank Ike did in one battle at the Bugle. Part of MacArthur's brilliance, was that just skipped over their bases like Rabaul in New Britian where the Japanese had 100,000 troops stationed; he just let them wither on the vine. His handling of the occupation of Japan was amongst the brilliant bit of political leadership ever by an American, civilian or military. All that said, Truman was right to fire him.
I'm ok with the phrase "fuckwad".
Well why didn't you just say so then? Also you should be flagged for no "Recreation and Amusement Association" pics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recreation_and_Amusement_Association -
Well no shit. We had way more people and endless resources. It would be like the US vs Florida.YellowSnow said:It's mind boggling to consider how much the Japanese underestimated our industrial capacity. Consider at Midway, they lost 4 carriers and we? 1. After Midway, the Japanese were able to put 4 new carriers to sea, with shitty pilots flying the planes. We launched 17 new carriers post Midway. And we did so with 80% of the war effort going to the European theater. If there had ever been a Pacific War just between the US and Japan, we could have won it under 2 years, even without the bomb.
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You have no idea what you are talking about. We have lost under 10k in 16 years and we have absolutely slaughtered the enemy in that time.Sledog said:
More than the atom bombs. We fought war to win and keep our losses to a minimum not the enemies.Mosster47 said:
LeMay burned up more yellow people than VD.PurpleThrobber said:
MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2.
We don't win anymore because it's terrible for business. How many tank orders came in after VE and VJ days? Almost zero.
If you don't have those parades and you bat the ball back and forth forever the tank, plane, and bomb orders never stop. -
In his defense, we also had Japanese interment camps "just in case".Mosster47 said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. We have lost under 10k in 16 years and we have absolutely slaughtered the enemy in that time.Sledog said:
More than the atom bombs. We fought war to win and keep our losses to a minimum not the enemies.Mosster47 said:
LeMay burned up more yellow people than VD.PurpleThrobber said:
MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2.
We don't win anymore because it's terrible for business. How many tank orders came in after VE and VJ days? Almost zero.
If you don't have those parades and you bat the ball back and forth forever the tank, plane, and bomb orders never stop.
That's the definition of playing to win. Who is to say those camps didn't prevent a second pearl harbor?
I feel gross even typing that, but playing to win is gaining as much advantage as possible. -
fixedYellowSnow said:It's mind boggling to consider how much the Japanese underestimated our
industrial capacitywill. -
YellowSnow said:
It's mind boggling to consider how much the Japanese underestimated our
industrial capacitywill.California rolls.
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Yes, Japan underestimated our will to wage war. But will alone doesn't win wars now does it? They couldn't comprehend the wave of steel and aluminum that would be coming their way.BearsWiin said:
fixedYellowSnow said:It's mind boggling to consider how much the Japanese underestimated our
industrial capacitywill. -
Actually, Yamamoto was very clear about this. It was Goering who thought we were only good at making refrigerators and razor blades.YellowSnow said:
Yes, Japan underestimated our will to wage war. But will alone doesn't win wars now does it? They couldn't comprehend the wave of steel and aluminum that would be coming their way.BearsWiin said:
fixedYellowSnow said:It's mind boggling to consider how much the Japanese underestimated our
industrial capacitywill. -
Did Japan have a choice?
The US basically cut off their access to oil (sense a theme for the next 75 years) and Japan felt like they had no choice ...
Their only chance was to destroy everything at Pearl and then what remained at Midway ...
Japan was NEVER going to win ... their only chance was to give us enough defeats to leave the Western US vulnerable to the point that we had no choice but to cave in.
Everybody knew that the real battle was in Europe and that's rightfully where the bulk of the attention was.
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The real battle WAS in Europe, which is why we cut off their oil when and how we did. The surprise was that, when they did attack south to secure oil, bauxite, and rubber from the Dutch East Indies, they also attacked Pearl.Tequilla said:Did Japan have a choice?
The US basically cut off their access to oil (sense a theme for the next 75 years) and Japan felt like they had no choice ...
Their only chance was to destroy everything at Pearl and then what remained at Midway ...
Japan was NEVER going to win ... their only chance was to give us enough defeats to leave the Western US vulnerable to the point that we had no choice but to cave in.
Everybody knew that the real battle was in Europe and that's rightfully where the bulk of the attention was. -
Well, that and the fact that Japan had basically been running roughshod over Korea and China for the seven or eight years prior, raping and pillaging at a pace that would make a Viking blush.BearsWiin said:
The real battle WAS in Europe, which is why we cut off their oil when and how we did. The surprise was that, when they did attack south to secure oil, bauxite, and rubber from the Dutch East Indies, they also attacked Pearl.Tequilla said:Did Japan have a choice?
The US basically cut off their access to oil (sense a theme for the next 75 years) and Japan felt like they had no choice ...
Their only chance was to destroy everything at Pearl and then what remained at Midway ...
Japan was NEVER going to win ... their only chance was to give us enough defeats to leave the Western US vulnerable to the point that we had no choice but to cave in.
Everybody knew that the real battle was in Europe and that's rightfully where the bulk of the attention was.
And the Japanese were also the ones who walked out of the League of Nations and blew up the Armistice of WW I.
But, yeah, oil. -
We had been threatening an oil embargo since May 1940, but for 16 months it was all just talk. We did it when we did (early August 1941), and how we did (full, not limited) to protect the Soviets. If it had been about protecting mainland slants, we'd have done it much earlier.PurpleThrobber said:
Well, that and the fact that Japan had basically been running roughshod over Korea and China for the seven or eight years prior, raping and pillaging at a pace that would make a Viking blush.BearsWiin said:
The real battle WAS in Europe, which is why we cut off their oil when and how we did. The surprise was that, when they did attack south to secure oil, bauxite, and rubber from the Dutch East Indies, they also attacked Pearl.Tequilla said:Did Japan have a choice?
The US basically cut off their access to oil (sense a theme for the next 75 years) and Japan felt like they had no choice ...
Their only chance was to destroy everything at Pearl and then what remained at Midway ...
Japan was NEVER going to win ... their only chance was to give us enough defeats to leave the Western US vulnerable to the point that we had no choice but to cave in.
Everybody knew that the real battle was in Europe and that's rightfully where the bulk of the attention was.
And the Japanese were also the ones who walked out of the League of Nations and blew up the Armistice of WW I.
But, yeah, oil. -
Guys can't we just be happy about being 2-0 in world championships?
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Yes, Yamamoto was very clear about awaking the sleeping giant; and that he could only give his country 6 months or so to establish a defensive perimeter before the US counter-offensive began. But part of the miscalculation - beyond their not forseeing our will to fight them to the point of unconditional surrender - was not fully grasping what our wartime economy would be able to throw at Japan.BearsWiin said:
Actually, Yamamoto was very clear about this. It was Goering who thought we were only good at making refrigerators and razor blades.YellowSnow said:
Yes, Japan underestimated our will to wage war. But will alone doesn't win wars now does it? They couldn't comprehend the wave of steel and aluminum that would be coming their way.BearsWiin said:
fixedYellowSnow said:It's mind boggling to consider how much the Japanese underestimated our
industrial capacitywill.
Sure Yamamoto and the rest could foresee that the US would be able to build a lot of ships and planes, but what they failed to comprehend was the scale, pace, and technology involved. In 1941 we had B-17s and B-24s. They weren't thinking in terms that the US could build a completely new bomber (B-29) in just a few years that could fly higher and faster that any Japanese fighter; and have the range and payload to devestate the Japanese mainland. The two factors ultimately sealed Japan's final fate were: (1) our subs sunk most of their merchant shipping by mid to late 1944; and (2) the capture of the Marianas put the mainland in reach of our B-29s.
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Look, it's easy to assess capabilities. It's harder to assess intentions, especially if you are culturally different. They knew our capabilities and potential. They miscalculated our will to fight.
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Which was odd because Hitler thought we were gangsters. Gangsters get evenBearsWiin said:Look, it's easy to assess capabilities. It's harder to assess intentions, especially if you are culturally different. They knew our capabilities and potential. They miscalculated our will to fight.
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This is true. Hitler was terrified of us. That's why they went east at full tilt through that impossible winter. They could have held off and taken Russia in the spring, but we would have been there by then and it would have been game over before they even got started.RaceBannon said:
Which was odd because Hitler thought we were gangsters. Gangsters get evenBearsWiin said:Look, it's easy to assess capabilities. It's harder to assess intentions, especially if you are culturally different. They knew our capabilities and potential. They miscalculated our will to fight.
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Of course I know what I'm talking about. I was talking WWII and you're talking today. The ball gets batted back and forth because we don't want to harm any non-combatants. We had no such compunction in WWII, see LeMay. In fact Allied bombing of Europe killed 250,000 Allied civilians.Mosster47 said:
You have no idea what you are talking about. We have lost under 10k in 16 years and we have absolutely slaughtered the enemy in that time.Sledog said:
More than the atom bombs. We fought war to win and keep our losses to a minimum not the enemies.Mosster47 said:
LeMay burned up more yellow people than VD.PurpleThrobber said:
MacArthur was a fuckwad.Mosster47 said:Why Nimitz isn't held in the same regard as Patton and Mac is fucking retarded.
Zhukov was the best general in WW2.
We don't win anymore because it's terrible for business. How many tank orders came in after VE and VJ days? Almost zero.
If you don't have those parades and you bat the ball back and forth forever the tank, plane, and bomb orders never stop.
If it's war you kill the enemy and keep killing them until they give up completely or run out of people to kill.
Now everyone thinks we can do it all without harming anyone and our current enemies hide among and are supported by the general population. They may not all be bad but it sure is hard to sort them out!
