The Solicialist Utopia of Venezuela has Issues...

Sledog said:

2001400ex said:

Sledog said:

2001400ex said:

Fenderbender123 said:

2001400ex said:

Ah the anti government people just showed up. I like it. Yes government is shitty. Yes taxes suck. Yes some regulations are bullshit. But this is a fact: Government is a necessary evil. I'm with ya on arguing that government is too intrusive and other shit. But you can't argue that corporations will act in the people's best interest.

We agree that government is evil, but how do we know it's necessary when we haven't tried going without?

Even grundle sees how fucktarded that is. First, do you think or current government has been here since the 1700s? There was barely even a currency or formal taxation then. Second, we had a period of deregulation from the beginning of Reagan's term that ended in 2008. The result was the worst recession since 1930.

If let run loose, corporations will do anything they can to make a profit. And taxpayers are the ones left holding the bag.

The problem is finding the right balance of regulation and free market.

As I've said, no country will be successful with pure capitalism or pure communism.

The government printing money is the biggest problem. We have so many regulations and laws I doubt we really know how many there are. Deregulation since the 30's? Don't see it. The government is the only unrestrained one.

Since the 30s? Where did you read that? The great depression in 1929 started a period of regulation from then through the 70s. When those regulations were rolled back from early 80s through 2008.

Clearly history is lost on you.

1980's not sure how I got a 3vin there. The biggest most damaging deregulation was forcing banks into loaning people money to buy homes that they could not repay. Carter started it, Clinton expanded it. The banks then sold the notes because they paid higher interest rate than was generally available. This drove the housing bubble and collapse which greatly contributed to the recession. It wasn't Ronnie.

salemcoog said:

ttu_85 said:

PurpleJ said:

salemcoog said:

Fenderbender123 said:

Government can't run shit well. No surprise.

On the flip side, the fastest growing city in India has no functional government.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/Fastest-growing-city-slowest-moving-too/articleshow/49265874.cms

http://ideas.ted.com/skyscrapers-but-no-sewage-system-meet-a-city-run-by-private-industry/

And yeah, I get it...they have no sewage! There's traffic problems! Sure, every city has problems...especially in India. And honestly, they do get the sewage out via transportation, and could form a sewage system once it's profitably.

But how can you argue with the fact that so many people in India are eager to move there? It's obviously less of a shithole than all the cities that have a functional government in that country.

It's the same shit with Somalia...Somalia is a shithole, sure...but it's become LESS of a shithole since the government was all but dismantled. That's what people fail to look at...

There are no profitable sewage systems. Some Government is needed.

Pointing to shitholes like Somalia and parts of India and how they may be a little less shitty to live in than their neighbors with the same functioning government doesn't prove anything.

There will indeed need to be some sort of hybrid economy. Capitalism is all based on growth. If it can't grow, it implodes. There are only so many resources on this planet and eventually growth will stop.

Natural resources are commodities, the prices of which are held in check by supply and demand. Scarcity of resources is a check on resource depletion. As the supply lessens, price goes up until it becomes prohibitively expensive for that resource to be used in any profitable venture. The market is then forced to come up with a more viable alternative. We saw this when the scarcity of wood drove the market to respond with the industrial revolution in the 1800s. It will happen again with oil.

Great post and you sited one example among many. Often it is scarcity or depletion that force solutions or alternatives that are better than the original technology. Free market capitalism, with a good dose of rule by law and respect for private property- including Intellectual property, is the best way to consistently find solutions to depletion and scarcity.

CEPT THAT the population has doubled in my lifetime from 4 billion to 8 billion. You can't continue double the population every 40 years and expect to have resources to take care of even those in the richer countries. The raping of these resources at the direction of the World Bank has accelerating this even at a faster rate. The math doesn't add up. I get the whole necessity is the mother of invention argument. But the industrial revolution started here in the US and there was no shortage of wood at that time, here in the US. It wasn't until the 1980's where wood shortages became a problem due to over harvest and no replant.

You can't eat Iphones, cloud data or self driving cars. Unless there are magic bullets to be invented such AS huge advancements in energy efficiency and the ability to produce abundant food supplies in areas with little to no native water, the current system will implode upon itself.

greenblood said:

2001400ex said:

salemcoog said:

ttu_85 said:

PurpleJ said:

salemcoog said:

Fenderbender123 said:

Government can't run shit well. No surprise.

On the flip side, the fastest growing city in India has no functional government.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/Fastest-growing-city-slowest-moving-too/articleshow/49265874.cms

http://ideas.ted.com/skyscrapers-but-no-sewage-system-meet-a-city-run-by-private-industry/

And yeah, I get it...they have no sewage! There's traffic problems! Sure, every city has problems...especially in India. And honestly, they do get the sewage out via transportation, and could form a sewage system once it's profitably.

But how can you argue with the fact that so many people in India are eager to move there? It's obviously less of a shithole than all the cities that have a functional government in that country.

It's the same shit with Somalia...Somalia is a shithole, sure...but it's become LESS of a shithole since the government was all but dismantled. That's what people fail to look at...

There are no profitable sewage systems. Some Government is needed.

Pointing to shitholes like Somalia and parts of India and how they may be a little less shitty to live in than their neighbors with the same functioning government doesn't prove anything.

There will indeed need to be some sort of hybrid economy. Capitalism is all based on growth. If it can't grow, it implodes. There are only so many resources on this planet and eventually growth will stop.

Natural resources are commodities, the prices of which are held in check by supply and demand. Scarcity of resources is a check on resource depletion. As the supply lessens, price goes up until it becomes prohibitively expensive for that resource to be used in any profitable venture. The market is then forced to come up with a more viable alternative. We saw this when the scarcity of wood drove the market to respond with the industrial revolution in the 1800s. It will happen again with oil.

Great post and you sited one example among many. Often it is scarcity or depletion that force solutions or alternatives that are better than the original technology. Free market capitalism, with a good dose of rule by law and respect for private property- including Intellectual property, is the best way to consistently find solutions to depletion and scarcity.

CEPT THAT the population has doubled in my lifetime from 4 billion to 8 billion. You can't continue double the population every 40 years and expect to have resources to take care of even those in the richer countries. The raping of these resources at the direction of the World Bank has accelerating this even at a faster rate. The math doesn't add up. I get the whole necessity is the mother of invention argument. But the industrial revolution started here in the US and there was no shortage of wood at that time, here in the US. It wasn't until the 1980's where wood shortages became a problem due to over harvest and no replant.

You can't eat Iphones, cloud data or self driving cars. Unless there are magic bullets to be invented such AS huge advancements in energy efficiency and the ability to produce abundant food supplies in areas with little to no native water, the current system will implode upon itself.

That's exactly why America went from a new country to the most successful, with agriculture and natural resources, we could be self sustaining, and we were.

Then we added in freedom to do as you wish and invent whatever. And some government investment in infrastructure, including the hated post office.

Those all led to a formula of success.

And no @Sledog, no one of influence in America is proposing to be a socialist nation. And no entitlement spending doesn't dwarf military. You do realize that military spending is like 10 times that of food stamps, right? It's amazing how much of a dream world you live in.

I think Sledog is including social security and medicare in the entitlements category. I actually don't consider those entitlements for the elderly. They paid into it for decades and put more tax dollars into it than what they'll ever receive.

ttu_85 said:

salemcoog said:

ttu_85 said:

PurpleJ said:

salemcoog said:

Fenderbender123 said:

Government can't run shit well. No surprise.

On the flip side, the fastest growing city in India has no functional government.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/Fastest-growing-city-slowest-moving-too/articleshow/49265874.cms

http://ideas.ted.com/skyscrapers-but-no-sewage-system-meet-a-city-run-by-private-industry/

And yeah, I get it...they have no sewage! There's traffic problems! Sure, every city has problems...especially in India. And honestly, they do get the sewage out via transportation, and could form a sewage system once it's profitably.

But how can you argue with the fact that so many people in India are eager to move there? It's obviously less of a shithole than all the cities that have a functional government in that country.

It's the same shit with Somalia...Somalia is a shithole, sure...but it's become LESS of a shithole since the government was all but dismantled. That's what people fail to look at...

There are no profitable sewage systems. Some Government is needed.

Pointing to shitholes like Somalia and parts of India and how they may be a little less shitty to live in than their neighbors with the same functioning government doesn't prove anything.

There will indeed need to be some sort of hybrid economy. Capitalism is all based on growth. If it can't grow, it implodes. There are only so many resources on this planet and eventually growth will stop.

Natural resources are commodities, the prices of which are held in check by supply and demand. Scarcity of resources is a check on resource depletion. As the supply lessens, price goes up until it becomes prohibitively expensive for that resource to be used in any profitable venture. The market is then forced to come up with a more viable alternative. We saw this when the scarcity of wood drove the market to respond with the industrial revolution in the 1800s. It will happen again with oil.

Great post and you sited one example among many. Often it is scarcity or depletion that force solutions or alternatives that are better than the original technology. Free market capitalism, with a good dose of rule by law and respect for private property- including Intellectual property, is the best way to consistently find solutions to depletion and scarcity.

CEPT THAT the population has doubled in my lifetime from 4 billion to 8 billion. You can't continue double the population every 40 years and expect to have resources to take care of even those in the richer countries. The raping of these resources at the direction of the World Bank has accelerating this even at a faster rate. The math doesn't add up. I get the whole necessity is the mother of invention argument. But the industrial revolution started here in the US and there was no shortage of wood at that time, here in the US. It wasn't until the 1980's where wood shortages became a problem due to over harvest and no replant.

You can't eat Iphones, cloud data or self driving cars. Unless there are magic bullets to be invented such AS huge advancements in energy efficiency and the ability to produce abundant food supplies in areas with little to no native water, the current system will implode upon itself.

Interesting and you have some points especially in regard to the "math" adding up and population being a prime example of the debate at hand. But some thoughts

A. Most population growth in the mid/late 20th and early 21st C as been in areas that are not capitalistic or have implemented ineffective versions of it.
B. Pop growth has been stagnant or even declining in what are or were capitalistic countries unless immigration is factored in.
C. And yes innovation from capitalistic countries primarly in medical and ag- fertilizers, soil management, crop rotations, etc have provided the fuel for rapid non capitalistic population growth in areas of Africa, L America, and parts of Asia. That is the irony in this debate.
D. No way the Earth using 1850 ag tech could feed even 3 billion. Now it can feed 10B but I agree there is no margin for error. A big hit to even US ag could kill a billion people in Africa, Asia, etc. Its a delicate system. Buts its clear the "mother of invention" point long been well in play with the bar placed much higher

And the industrial rev started in Britain in the 1780's. By the mid 1800's the switch to coal was well underway. And that huge advancement in energy you mentioned could well be Fusion power if we can bet the breaks in material sciences. Gotta contain the genie.

ttu_85 said:

2001400ex said:

ttu_85 said:

salemcoog said:

ttu_85 said:

PurpleJ said:

salemcoog said:

Fenderbender123 said:

Government can't run shit well. No surprise.

On the flip side, the fastest growing city in India has no functional government.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/Fastest-growing-city-slowest-moving-too/articleshow/49265874.cms

http://ideas.ted.com/skyscrapers-but-no-sewage-system-meet-a-city-run-by-private-industry/

And yeah, I get it...they have no sewage! There's traffic problems! Sure, every city has problems...especially in India. And honestly, they do get the sewage out via transportation, and could form a sewage system once it's profitably.

But how can you argue with the fact that so many people in India are eager to move there? It's obviously less of a shithole than all the cities that have a functional government in that country.

It's the same shit with Somalia...Somalia is a shithole, sure...but it's become LESS of a shithole since the government was all but dismantled. That's what people fail to look at...

There are no profitable sewage systems. Some Government is needed.

Pointing to shitholes like Somalia and parts of India and how they may be a little less shitty to live in than their neighbors with the same functioning government doesn't prove anything.

There will indeed need to be some sort of hybrid economy. Capitalism is all based on growth. If it can't grow, it implodes. There are only so many resources on this planet and eventually growth will stop.

Natural resources are commodities, the prices of which are held in check by supply and demand. Scarcity of resources is a check on resource depletion. As the supply lessens, price goes up until it becomes prohibitively expensive for that resource to be used in any profitable venture. The market is then forced to come up with a more viable alternative. We saw this when the scarcity of wood drove the market to respond with the industrial revolution in the 1800s. It will happen again with oil.

Great post and you sited one example among many. Often it is scarcity or depletion that force solutions or alternatives that are better than the original technology. Free market capitalism, with a good dose of rule by law and respect for private property- including Intellectual property, is the best way to consistently find solutions to depletion and scarcity.

CEPT THAT the population has doubled in my lifetime from 4 billion to 8 billion. You can't continue double the population every 40 years and expect to have resources to take care of even those in the richer countries. The raping of these resources at the direction of the World Bank has accelerating this even at a faster rate. The math doesn't add up. I get the whole necessity is the mother of invention argument. But the industrial revolution started here in the US and there was no shortage of wood at that time, here in the US. It wasn't until the 1980's where wood shortages became a problem due to over harvest and no replant.

You can't eat Iphones, cloud data or self driving cars. Unless there are magic bullets to be invented such AS huge advancements in energy efficiency and the ability to produce abundant food supplies in areas with little to no native water, the current system will implode upon itself.

Interesting and you have some points especially in regard to the "math" adding up and population being a prime example of the debate at hand. But some thoughts

A. Most population growth in the mid/late 20th and early 21st C as been in areas that are not capitalistic or have implemented ineffective versions of it.
B. Pop growth has been stagnant or even declining in what are or were capitalistic countries unless immigration is factored in.
C. And yes innovation from capitalistic countries primarly in medical and ag- fertilizers, soil management, crop rotations, etc have provided the fuel for rapid non capitalistic population growth in areas of Africa, L America, and parts of Asia. That is the irony in this debate.
D. No way the Earth using 1850 ag tech could feed even 3 billion. Now it can feed 10B but I agree there is no margin for error. A big hit to even US ag could kill a billion people in Africa, Asia, etc. Its a delicate system. Buts its clear the "mother of invention" point long been well in play with the bar placed much higher

And the industrial rev started in Britain in the 1780's. By the mid 1800's the switch to coal was well underway. And that huge advancement in energy you mentioned could well be Fusion power if we can bet the breaks in material sciences. Gotta contain the genie.

So you are saying that population growth on percentage has been higher in communist China that only allows one child per woman than India with no government? I need a komo4 buttfucker on that one.

So are you saying India doesnt have a government ?

Sledog said:

greenblood said:

2001400ex said:

salemcoog said:

ttu_85 said:

PurpleJ said:

salemcoog said:

Fenderbender123 said:

Government can't run shit well. No surprise.

On the flip side, the fastest growing city in India has no functional government.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/Fastest-growing-city-slowest-moving-too/articleshow/49265874.cms

http://ideas.ted.com/skyscrapers-but-no-sewage-system-meet-a-city-run-by-private-industry/

And yeah, I get it...they have no sewage! There's traffic problems! Sure, every city has problems...especially in India. And honestly, they do get the sewage out via transportation, and could form a sewage system once it's profitably.

But how can you argue with the fact that so many people in India are eager to move there? It's obviously less of a shithole than all the cities that have a functional government in that country.

It's the same shit with Somalia...Somalia is a shithole, sure...but it's become LESS of a shithole since the government was all but dismantled. That's what people fail to look at...

There are no profitable sewage systems. Some Government is needed.

Pointing to shitholes like Somalia and parts of India and how they may be a little less shitty to live in than their neighbors with the same functioning government doesn't prove anything.

There will indeed need to be some sort of hybrid economy. Capitalism is all based on growth. If it can't grow, it implodes. There are only so many resources on this planet and eventually growth will stop.

Natural resources are commodities, the prices of which are held in check by supply and demand. Scarcity of resources is a check on resource depletion. As the supply lessens, price goes up until it becomes prohibitively expensive for that resource to be used in any profitable venture. The market is then forced to come up with a more viable alternative. We saw this when the scarcity of wood drove the market to respond with the industrial revolution in the 1800s. It will happen again with oil.

Great post and you sited one example among many. Often it is scarcity or depletion that force solutions or alternatives that are better than the original technology. Free market capitalism, with a good dose of rule by law and respect for private property- including Intellectual property, is the best way to consistently find solutions to depletion and scarcity.

CEPT THAT the population has doubled in my lifetime from 4 billion to 8 billion. You can't continue double the population every 40 years and expect to have resources to take care of even those in the richer countries. The raping of these resources at the direction of the World Bank has accelerating this even at a faster rate. The math doesn't add up. I get the whole necessity is the mother of invention argument. But the industrial revolution started here in the US and there was no shortage of wood at that time, here in the US. It wasn't until the 1980's where wood shortages became a problem due to over harvest and no replant.

You can't eat Iphones, cloud data or self driving cars. Unless there are magic bullets to be invented such AS huge advancements in energy efficiency and the ability to produce abundant food supplies in areas with little to no native water, the current system will implode upon itself.

That's exactly why America went from a new country to the most successful, with agriculture and natural resources, we could be self sustaining, and we were.

Then we added in freedom to do as you wish and invent whatever. And some government investment in infrastructure, including the hated post office.

Those all led to a formula of success.

And no @Sledog, no one of influence in America is proposing to be a socialist nation. And no entitlement spending doesn't dwarf military. You do realize that military spending is like 10 times that of food stamps, right? It's amazing how much of a dream world you live in.

I think Sledog is including social security and medicare in the entitlements category. I actually don't consider those entitlements for the elderly. They paid into it for decades and put more tax dollars into it than what they'll ever receive.

I'm not including social security or medicare IF YOU PAID INTO IT. The liberal have extended benefits to those that did not pay in and those here illegally etc. Homeland security is not the military but is often included.

You looking at this chart that's not right?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/aug/17/facebook-posts/pie-chart-federal-spending-circulating-internet-mi/

TierbsHsotBoobs said:

Does this thread need Keeley?

RaceBannon said:

2001400ex said:

salemcoog said:

ttu_85 said:

PurpleJ said:

salemcoog said:

Fenderbender123 said:

Government can't run shit well. No surprise.

On the flip side, the fastest growing city in India has no functional government.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/gurgaon/Fastest-growing-city-slowest-moving-too/articleshow/49265874.cms

http://ideas.ted.com/skyscrapers-but-no-sewage-system-meet-a-city-run-by-private-industry/

And yeah, I get it...they have no sewage! There's traffic problems! Sure, every city has problems...especially in India. And honestly, they do get the sewage out via transportation, and could form a sewage system once it's profitably.

But how can you argue with the fact that so many people in India are eager to move there? It's obviously less of a shithole than all the cities that have a functional government in that country.

It's the same shit with Somalia...Somalia is a shithole, sure...but it's become LESS of a shithole since the government was all but dismantled. That's what people fail to look at...

There are no profitable sewage systems. Some Government is needed.

Pointing to shitholes like Somalia and parts of India and how they may be a little less shitty to live in than their neighbors with the same functioning government doesn't prove anything.

There will indeed need to be some sort of hybrid economy. Capitalism is all based on growth. If it can't grow, it implodes. There are only so many resources on this planet and eventually growth will stop.

Natural resources are commodities, the prices of which are held in check by supply and demand. Scarcity of resources is a check on resource depletion. As the supply lessens, price goes up until it becomes prohibitively expensive for that resource to be used in any profitable venture. The market is then forced to come up with a more viable alternative. We saw this when the scarcity of wood drove the market to respond with the industrial revolution in the 1800s. It will happen again with oil.

Great post and you sited one example among many. Often it is scarcity or depletion that force solutions or alternatives that are better than the original technology. Free market capitalism, with a good dose of rule by law and respect for private property- including Intellectual property, is the best way to consistently find solutions to depletion and scarcity.

CEPT THAT the population has doubled in my lifetime from 4 billion to 8 billion. You can't continue double the population every 40 years and expect to have resources to take care of even those in the richer countries. The raping of these resources at the direction of the World Bank has accelerating this even at a faster rate. The math doesn't add up. I get the whole necessity is the mother of invention argument. But the industrial revolution started here in the US and there was no shortage of wood at that time, here in the US. It wasn't until the 1980's where wood shortages became a problem due to over harvest and no replant.

You can't eat Iphones, cloud data or self driving cars. Unless there are magic bullets to be invented such AS huge advancements in energy efficiency and the ability to produce abundant food supplies in areas with little to no native water, the current system will implode upon itself.

That's exactly why America went from a new country to the most successful, with agriculture and natural resources, we could be self sustaining, and we were.

Then we added in freedom to do as you wish and invent whatever. And some government investment in infrastructure, including the hated post office.

Those all led to a formula of success.

And no @Sledog, no one of influence in America is proposing to be a socialist nation. And no entitlement spending doesn't dwarf military. You do realize that military spending is like 10 times that of food stamps, right? It's amazing how much of a dream world you live in.

Uh without the military to defeat the Huns and Japs and to exert our power and survive the Cold War there is nothing here but dust in the wind

Self supporting isn't enough. Exporting is needed. We are the breadbasket of the world.

TierbsHsotBoobs said:

2001400ex said:

TierbsHsotBoobs said:

Does this thread need Keeley?

If we are doing requests, Isla Fisher?

I got nuthin.