Kobe retiring
Comments
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Kareem got swept in the Finals ... he also was the 3rd or 4th option on that team at that point.RaceBannon said:Kareem won a title his last season
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Probably Rick Barry. For the sake of argument, you could maybe make a case for Wilt based on the era he played in. But he put up ridiculous numbers and changed the game so I wouldn't. You could also make the case for LeBron, because he is still playing and he needs to win one in Cleveland before he can pop off. I'm pretty sure he will, so I wouldn't make that one either. It's kind of like discussing your favorite movies or music, though, because it's subjective. Unless you want to go by rings or a specific stat, of course. But that'd be like going by record sales or box office. It doesn't always tell the whole story.RaceBannon said:
That's a good point. I pretty much went with who I saw and while the Big O was there at the same time, TV back in the day was Lakers, Celtics, and Sixers in the 60's. O did win title with Kareem in Milwaukee,PurpleJ said:Race, light yourself on fire for not including the Big O.
Who do I take off the list? -
Bill Simmons calls Kobe top 10. And while I don't think his opinion is the be all end all, given his Celtic colored glasses and the fact that he literally wrote the book of basketball I'd say it carries some weight.
I'd have him 9th on DNCs list. -
You put him over Oscar, Hakeem and Shaq? Or above others on the list?allpurpleallgold said:Bill Simmons calls Kobe top 10. And while I don't think his opinion is the be all end all, given his Celtic colored glasses and the fact that he literally wrote the book of basketball I'd say it carries some weight.
I'd have him 9th on DNCs list.
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It will be very difficult to move into the Top 5 ...dnc said:
I love Kobe but I'm not sure he's top 10 of all time. I'd probably put him top 12. But no question he's one of the greats.allpurpleallgold said:Both sad news and happy. Like it's time.
The Kobe haters coming out has me feeling nostalgic.
He had an ok game tonight. He'll continue to put up stinkers. But at some point he'll have a big game and that'll be how I'll remember the last season.
Kobe gave everyone what they wanted. The best Michael Jordan impersonation possible. And he's a top 10 player of all time. RIP.
What's your top 10 look like? I'd go something like
Jordan
Russell
Magic
Kareem
Bird
Wilt
Bron
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Oscar
Kobe
But he's definitely in that 8-15 range. Once you get past Duncan you can argue it quite a few different ways.
I'd go with Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, and Bird ...
Wilt is a difficult person to slot because while individually he was great it's a team game and he really struggled there. When you compare Wilt's stats against Russell versus his stats against his total stats, it really speaks to the value of Russell.
From a talent standpoint, LeBron is great. 2 titles though and the countless Finals losses though I think at some point have to stack up against him though. When you are comparing him to guys like Duncan and Kobe who have I believe 5 titles each, there's something to be said for that. In the end, the greatest players in the history of basketball are measured by titles. I put LeBron closer to the Wilt category than some others unless he can prove me wrong going forward. Oscar is really in that category as well.
Duncan to me is probably ahead of Wilt at this point ... I'd put him 6th in my own rankings. Wilt 7th. Kobe 8th. Lebron 9th because of his dominance. Big O 10th. Hakeem 11th. Shaq 12th out of that list.
In general, I don't find someone to be a great player because in their prime they were genetically superior to everybody else. I give major props to guys like Jordan, Kareem, and Duncan for being such strong players as they aged. Shaq really fell off as he aged and got out of shape. Hakeem was still a strong player in his mid 30s. For guards standards, both Kobe and Oscar played well far longer than most at their positions in their generations. I'm really looking forward to seeing how LeBron adjusts as his body starts to lose some of its advantages and whether he can change his game to adjust. -
The Book of Basketball is an encyclopedia on the game. Simmons has some Celtic bias to him, but I never really got too much of an impression of that in the book. His reverence for the history of the game is greater than his Celtic fandom.allpurpleallgold said:Bill Simmons calls Kobe top 10. And while I don't think his opinion is the be all end all, given his Celtic colored glasses and the fact that he literally wrote the book of basketball I'd say it carries some weight.
I'd have him 9th on DNCs list. -
Rick Barry.RaceBannon said:
That's a good point. I pretty much went with who I saw and while the Big O was there at the same time, TV back in the day was Lakers, Celtics, and Sixers in the 60's. O did win title with Kareem in Milwaukee,PurpleJ said:Race, light yourself on fire for not including the Big O.
Who do I take off the list?
Edit: Moses Malone and Karl Malone have to be in the discussion. Jerry West is horribly overrated - Havlicek has as strong a resume and way more rings.
And dare I say, The Iceman was as good as it gets.
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What, no Shawn Kemp?
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Ahead of those 3, behind Duncan. Lebron is the wildcard in there. If his career ended today I'd probably put him behind Kobe, Duncan.dnc said:
You put him over Oscar, Hakeem and Shaq? Or above others on the list?allpurpleallgold said:Bill Simmons calls Kobe top 10. And while I don't think his opinion is the be all end all, given his Celtic colored glasses and the fact that he literally wrote the book of basketball I'd say it carries some weight.
I'd have him 9th on DNCs list. -
I completely forgot about Duncan. As usual. He has to be on my list somewhere. Sorry Rick Barry you're out.allpurpleallgold said:
Ahead of those 3, behind Duncan. Lebron is the wildcard in there. If his career ended today I'd probably put him behind Kobe, Duncan.dnc said:
You put him over Oscar, Hakeem and Shaq? Or above others on the list?allpurpleallgold said:Bill Simmons calls Kobe top 10. And while I don't think his opinion is the be all end all, given his Celtic colored glasses and the fact that he literally wrote the book of basketball I'd say it carries some weight.
I'd have him 9th on DNCs list.
I'm not a Kobe hater but the reason neither he or Shaq makes my list is because both of them should have more rings that Jordan. Regardless of who was to blame they are fucking stupid for ruining that team and kicking away a couple titles even before they broke up.
Then Shaq got fat. I'd put Kobe ahead of Shaq because he led a team to two more titles and Shaq kind of rode Wade's coat tails to one more. (insert CuntWaffle you mean like Lebron)
The top 50 list would have to be revisited these days for guys like Dirk and Wade etc.
