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TCU and Offensive Improvement

RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
in Hardcore Husky Board
A preemptive fuck off to @Tequilla. Same QB, mostly same players and TCU went from 88th in scoring to 2nd in one year. Boykin was largely seen as a great athlete but shitty QB. New coordinators, new scheme, new attitude and he finishes 2nd in the Heisman. I've been on record saying this offensive system sucks and I openly question whether Petersen knows what he's doing on that side of the ball.

We lament about the talent, and it's not ideal, but the scheme matters. We've also said the head coach is all that matters, but I disagree. A position coach doesn't matter too much, but coordinator's do matter. Take advantage of the player's strength. Try and mask the weaknesses. Blaming it on the players didn't work for Ty, so why the fuck do poasters here do it for Peterman? I don't give a fuck who is playing for UW, finishing last in the conference is inexcusable. Not only should Smith have never been hired, he should have been fired for it. Even if he turns out to be decent, it's tough to imagine UW and a coach with Petersen's reputation couldn't do better.

Anyways, I thought this was an interesting read about a stunning improvement. The great coaches adapt and change when things are going downhill. Don James in the late 80's is the example at UW and Gary Patterson is another great example. Hopefully Petersen can do the same.

http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/08/17/tcu-horned-frogs-offense-gary-patterson-sonny-cumbie-doug-meacham
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  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
    Mad_Son said:

    RoadDawg55 said:


    We've also said the head coach is all that matters, but I disagree.

    Well you're wrong. The issues you pointed out are symptoms of the head coach making a bad hiring decision. It all starts and ends with the head coach. Bad coordinators are on the head coach. It's not Smith's fault he is a bad OC (we'll assume you're right on that point) - it's Petersen's fault for hiring him.
    Very true and good point.
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  • OZONEOZONE Member Posts: 2,510
    I don't know how this stuff works, and I'm and outsider, but it struck me while reading this... what exactly do you expect Washington to do with an OL comprised mostly of RS Freshman?
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  • SoutherndawgSoutherndawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 8,285 Founders Club
    RoadDawg55 said:

    A preemptive fuck off to @Tequilla. Same QB, mostly same players and TCU went from 88th in scoring to 2nd in one year. Boykin was largely seen as a great athlete but shitty QB. New coordinators, new scheme, new attitude and he finishes 2nd in the Heisman. I've been on record saying this offensive system sucks and I openly question whether Petersen knows what he's doing on that side of the ball.

    We lament about the talent, and it's not ideal, but the scheme matters. We've also said the head coach is all that matters, but I disagree. A position coach doesn't matter too much, but coordinator's do matter. Take advantage of the player's strength. Try and mask the weaknesses. Blaming it on the players didn't work for Ty, so why the fuck do poasters here do it for Peterman? I don't give a fuck who is playing for UW, finishing last in the conference is inexcusable. Not only should Smith have never been hired, he should have been fired for it. Even if he turns out to be decent, it's tough to imagine UW and a coach with Petersen's reputation couldn't do better.

    Anyways, I thought this was an interesting read about a stunning improvement. The great coaches adapt and change when things are going downhill. Don James in the late 80's is the example at UW and Gary Patterson is another great example. Hopefully Petersen can do the same.

    http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/08/17/tcu-horned-frogs-offense-gary-patterson-sonny-cumbie-doug-meacham


    We? I'm on record disagreeing with that as an absolute. Coordinators matter, as do recruiters, position coaches, the nutrition and S&C programs .... etc. It's the head coach's responsibility to make sure he hires good people, sets the tone and priorities, and coaches up his assistants. To that end, the head coach is all that matters, but the machine has a lot of important cogs.
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  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
    edited August 2015
    OZONE said:

    I don't know how this stuff works, and I'm and outsider, but it struck me while reading this... what exactly do you expect Washington to do with an OL comprised mostly of RS Freshman?

    Shelton (So), Eldrenkamp (jr), Tufunga (Sr), Brostek (Jr), and Matt James/Adams/McGary. One starting spot will be manned by a freshman to start the season.

    And I don't expect a great offense, but it should be markedly improved despite whatever talent shortcomings.
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  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,491 Standard Supporter
    haie said:

    OZONE said:

    I don't know how this stuff works, and I'm and outsider, but it struck me while reading this... what exactly do you expect Washington to do with an OL comprised mostly of RS Freshman?

    image
    image
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  • CokeGreaterThanPepsiCokeGreaterThanPepsi Member Posts: 7,646
    I think about TCU a lot in regards to the offense. They are a great example of how in today's modern football you can hire the right OC and get your act together in a single offseason.

    It actually gives me hope going forward. I trust Petersen to make tough decisions if he has to at the end of this year. And if he does have to fire Babushka and he makes the right hire, it is entirely possible to get better in a hurry.
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  • GladstoneGladstone Member Posts: 16,419
    Muttzen said:

    Willing to let Smith work with a QB that is not Miley before I judge him. We should know very soon. Agree that we don't even need the whole year to figure it out.

    I guess, but he never should have been hired to begin with. What a huge stretch that was.
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  • bananasnblondesbananasnblondes Member Posts: 15,130
    CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:

    I think about TCU a lot in regards to the offense. They are a great example of how in today's modern football you can hire the right OC and get your act together in a single offseason.

    It actually gives me hope going forward. I trust Petersen to make tough decisions if he has to at the end of this year. And if he does have to fire Babushka and he makes the right hire, it is entirely possible to get better in a hurry.

    If much of it was Smith's fault, and Peterman waits until the end of year 2 to fire him, then that is inexcusable.
    I honestly never imagined a QB being as truly awful as Cyler Miles was last year. Watch the Stanford game on coaches tape and you will see they basically never had to change their base defense because they knew Miles could not throw the ball over their heads.

    We were so far behind the 8 ball at QB it was embarrassing. I feel bad for anyone that had to scheme an offense with that QB play.
    this is why I hold on to a sight bit of hope that Smith can prove to be competent despite last year's pathetic offense. I think back to the alcoholic haze I spent watching the games in last year and I remember yelling "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING, CYLER???" a lot more than I remember yelling "WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU CALL THAT PLAY???"

    Smith certainly didn't help the matter in the creativity department but when you have a qb who you can literally not count on to throw a simple pass 10 years downfield to a receiver running a route, you better have an awesome running game, which we didn't.

    Again, not saying Smith was good last year-he wasn't, but there is at least a chance that trying to run a competent offense with Cyler at qb is akin to trying to get your porn career off the ground when you have a 1-inch dick.
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  • MuttzenMuttzen Member Posts: 1,015
    edited August 2015
    Gladstone said:

    Muttzen said:

    Willing to let Smith work with a QB that is not Miley before I judge him. We should know very soon. Agree that we don't even need the whole year to figure it out.

    I guess, but he never should have been hired to begin with. What a huge stretch that was.
    That is a decent point. I think there is some room for concern with Pete's choice of OC.

    Looking at who Petersen's Previous OC's:

    Harsin: No prior OC experience, Boise had its best years under his tenure. He was OC from 2006-2010. Now their head coach.

    (side note: Moore played from 2008-2011)

    Pease: OC in 2011. Did well his one year in Boise (with senior Kellen Moore), then joined the Muschamp shitshow at Florida, so its difficult to say how good of an OC he is. He does seem polarizing to prior players. Had prior OC experience (Montana, NAU, Kentucky, Baylor). Now back with Pete as a WR coach, it seems Pete highly values his inner circle.

    Prince: OC from 2012-2013. Statistically the team did okay in 2012, but the offense was not very good in 2013. Boise fans did not think highly of him. Was in the NFL as a position coach prior to his stint in Boise. Now with the Detroit Lions as a WR coach.


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  • TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:

    I think about TCU a lot in regards to the offense. They are a great example of how in today's modern football you can hire the right OC and get your act together in a single offseason.

    It actually gives me hope going forward. I trust Petersen to make tough decisions if he has to at the end of this year. And if he does have to fire Babushka and he makes the right hire, it is entirely possible to get better in a hurry.

    If much of it was Smith's fault, and Peterman waits until the end of year 2 to fire him, then that is inexcusable.
    I honestly never imagined a QB being as truly awful as Cyler Miles was last year. Watch the Stanford game on coaches tape and you will see they basically never had to change their base defense because they knew Miles could not throw the ball over their heads.

    We were so far behind the 8 ball at QB it was embarrassing. I feel bad for anyone that had to scheme an offense with that QB play.
    He wore number 10 and played like the guy before him that wore number 10 did.

    I'm surprised you're surprised.
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  • RaccoonHarryRaccoonHarry Member Posts: 2,160
    AtomicDawg said:

    RoadDawg55 said:

    A preemptive fuck off to @Tequilla. Same QB, mostly same players and TCU went from 88th in scoring to 2nd in one year. Boykin was largely seen as a great athlete but shitty QB. New coordinators, new scheme, new attitude and he finishes 2nd in the Heisman. I've been on record saying this offensive system sucks and I openly question whether Petersen knows what he's doing on that side of the ball.

    We lament about the talent, and it's not ideal, but the scheme matters. We've also said the head coach is all that matters, but I disagree. A position coach doesn't matter too much, but coordinator's do matter. Take advantage of the player's strength. Try and mask the weaknesses. Blaming it on the players didn't work for Ty, so why the fuck do poasters here do it for Peterman? I don't give a fuck who is playing for UW, finishing last in the conference is inexcusable. Not only should Smith have never been hired, he should have been fired for it. Even if he turns out to be decent, it's tough to imagine UW and a coach with Petersen's reputation couldn't do better.

    Anyways, I thought this was an interesting read about a stunning improvement. The great coaches adapt and change when things are going downhill. Don James in the late 80's is the example at UW and Gary Patterson is another great example. Hopefully Petersen can do the same.

    http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/08/17/tcu-horned-frogs-offense-gary-patterson-sonny-cumbie-doug-meacham

    The offense is petes baby just like the defense is pattersons baby at tcu. Certain coaches have sides of the ball that they focus on most of the time. Patterson I think gives a lot more freedom to his offensive coordinator than his defense. I think Pete is the opposite and last year showed that he is not very imaginative nor did he hire someone who was.

    As mediocre as bellotti was it was his proactive redefining of himself and reaching out for help that lead to him being less involved with the offense and hiring crowton and then chip Kelly (75k). Maybe Pete needs to take that approach. Another year like last year and I would say I am pretty sure that he is over his head or feels,zero urgency. This isn't the wac.
    I get that nobody likes Bellotti but when he left Oregon he had a winning record vs every other team in the conference, even USC. And for the most part that was before the big Nike money really kicked in. He may not have been great but he was certainly better than mediocre. Hard as that is to swallow (cue blow job jokes now) it's true.
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