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hellava Oconomy we got going on here
sarktastic
Member Posts: 9,208
in Tug Tavern
Makes you wonder where EPS would be if we didn't have record LBB's since interest rates have been artificially frozen at zero, doesn't it, Honda.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/02/profits sales and EPS_0.jpg
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/02/profits sales and EPS_0.jpg
Comments
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Please learn how to interpret charts.sarktastic said:Makes you wonder where EPS would be if we didn't have record LBB's since interest rates have been artificially frozen at zero, doesn't it, Honda.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2015/02/profits sales and EPS_0.jpg -
By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
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It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn. -
Dude.2001400ex said:
It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn.
What is indicated in chat, stays in chat.
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Imagine for a moment a period of time when earnings are stable. Assume also, during that same period, the number of shares outstanding fell. Would the earnings per share during this period be falling? Rising? Or stay the same?
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Zero Hedge can be interesting, but shouldn't be taken seriously; they've been consistently claiming that we're due for a Mad Max-style dystopia since the mid-2000s.
Russkie Propaganda? -
It depends, are you talking diluted EPS? What is the cause of shares outstanding declining? From purchase of treasury stock or other reasons.
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Can we get @thechatch in here for an explanation?2001400ex said:It depends, are you talking diluted EPS? What is the cause of shares outstanding declining? From purchase of treasury stock or other reasons.
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I'm waiting for @sarktastic to respond. I have a feeling that one went right over his head.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Can we get @thechatch in here for an explanation?2001400ex said:It depends, are you talking diluted EPS? What is the cause of shares outstanding declining? From purchase of treasury stock or other reasons.
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There is so much misinformation in this post not sure where to start. If you want to talk US economic growth...go look at GDP stats. The original post I'm assuming is referencing the relative increase in stock prices vs. actual earnings growth, and how there has been a growing disjuncture between the two. Turning it into a claim about the US economy is FS.2001400ex said:
It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn.
BTW...love zerohedge. Fun blog to read, even if I don't buy all the doom and gloom.
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Well you could start with something that's wrong in my post. You can assume a lot from the original post, however the only thing I can gather is that since growth has slowed, clearly or economy is not doing well.HoustonHusky said:
There is so much misinformation in this post not sure where to start. If you want to talk US economic growth...go look at GDP stats. The original post I'm assuming is referencing the relative increase in stock prices vs. actual earnings growth, and how there has been a growing disjuncture between the two. Turning it into a claim about the US economy is FS.2001400ex said:
It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn.
BTW...love zerohedge. Fun blog to read, even if I don't buy all the doom and gloom.
I would not agree that there is a disconnect between earnings and stock market price. Look at EPS for the stock market as a whole, it's still at the lower end of the spectrum.
While EPS is not the only indicator of the economy, it's still a factor. If earnings are declining, then it's an indicator it a pending recession. But there is a lag, as there is with everything in a large economy. However the chart is still showing EPS growth. Clearly sarktastic can't read the chart. -
Slow growth has slowed. Compare it to Reagan who you love to mock. That's right wikipedia didn't tell you about the late 70's major recession
Never mind -
Clearly you don't remember a recession a year into Reagan's term or over 11% unemployment during his presidency.RaceBannon said:Slow growth has slowed. Compare it to Reagan who you love to mock. That's right wikipedia didn't tell you about the late 70's major recession
Never mind -
This thread just made my head hurt ...
Here's what you can tell from the chart:
1) Coming out of the downturns in the economy in '08 and '09 (which tends to happen as we head into election cycles where the winner is less of a formality), sales growth SHOULD have seen explosive growth from a YoY standpoint as it's not only a component of real growth, but a recovery from limited (or negative) growth before it.
2) Beginning at the end of 2011, the revenue growth cannot be viewed as a driver of our economy as it has consistently been under 5% and trending more in the 2-3% range that would typically be observed when looking at GDP.
3) EPS growth is taking place in part because businesses are focusing on cost controls driving earnings growth. Simply put, growth in revenues >>> growth in expenses. That's just fundamental good business. Other than a few small period specific outliers, since 2012, the EPS growth has mimicked that of the revenue growth.
4) During 2013, we saw some drops in revenue growth that before a rebound at the end of 2013 and into 2014. We're seeing a similar, but sharper, decline in the most recent months. I would bet that we're going to head towards a recession over the next 12-24 months simply driven by the fact that we're heading into a new election cycle.
5) What the chart really shows is that during Obama's presidency, there really hasn't been an economic boom. What his supporters will point to early in his first term was driven moreso from the recovery from the housing collapse as it was anything that Obama did. Once the markets returned to normal, that's played out consistently since then despite a number of factors that would suggest a beneficial environment for growth (low interest rates = cheap money for businesses to invest; continued efficiency growth through technology producing more organic cash to invest with).
Looking forward, another huge issue that is going to be in play with respects to today's global economy is the influence in currencies. There are more than a few currencies that are struggling around the globe and there's always a risk of what the underlying EU countries will do given that there's such long-term distrust between the countries and the growing chasm between the have's and the have-not's within the EU. -
We're 6 years into Obama but still2001400ex said:
Clearly you don't remember a recession a year into Reagan's term or over 11% unemployment during his presidency.RaceBannon said:Slow growth has slowed. Compare it to Reagan who you love to mock. That's right wikipedia didn't tell you about the late 70's major recession
Never mind
Never mind -
http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServletRaceBannon said:
We're 6 years into Obama but still2001400ex said:
Clearly you don't remember a recession a year into Reagan's term or over 11% unemployment during his presidency.RaceBannon said:Slow growth has slowed. Compare it to Reagan who you love to mock. That's right wikipedia didn't tell you about the late 70's major recession
Never mind
Never mind
January 1981 7.5%
July 1981 7.2% (low)
December 1982 10.8% (peak)
January 1987 6.6% (same duration of presidency as last month)
January 2009 7.9%
July 2009 9.5% (comparable to July 1981)
October 2009 10.0% (peak)
December 2010 9.3% (comparable to December 1982)
January 2015 5.7% (comparable to January 1987)
Don't forget, Reagan presided under 6 years of growth in government employees, Obama has presided under 6 years of government employee decline.
Revisionist history there? -
Don't forget Reagan policies worked. Obama's haven't.
We already covered the phony unemployment numbers. You weren't there and you're just a hack now so never mind. Obama is great. All is well. -
A lot of sizzle there.2001400ex said:
http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServletRaceBannon said:
We're 6 years into Obama but still2001400ex said:
Clearly you don't remember a recession a year into Reagan's term or over 11% unemployment during his presidency.RaceBannon said:Slow growth has slowed. Compare it to Reagan who you love to mock. That's right wikipedia didn't tell you about the late 70's major recession
Never mind
Never mind
January 1981 7.5%
July 1981 7.2% (low)
December 1982 10.8% (peak)
January 1987 6.6% (same duration of presidency as last month)
January 2009 7.9%
July 2009 9.5% (comparable to July 1981)
October 2009 10.0% (peak)
December 2010 9.3% (comparable to December 1982)
January 2015 5.7% (comparable to January 1987)
Don't forget, Reagan presided under 6 years of growth in government employees, Obama has presided under 6 years of government employee decline.
Revisionist history there? -
Lol, you don't like he numbers so they are phony. How did I know that was your answer. Really it's just embarrassing for you.RaceBannon said:Don't forget Reagan policies worked. Obama's haven't.
We already covered the phony unemployment numbers. You weren't there and you're just a hack now so never mind. Obama is great. All is well. -
Been living at investopedia Ex? Anybody with any business acumen wouldnt be spewing your plagiarized, verbatim and silly references. Give it up buttfuck.2001400ex said:It depends, are you talking diluted EPS? What is the cause of shares outstanding declining? From purchase of treasury stock or other reasons.
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Let me translate what you just said "I have no fucking clue what you said, so instead of actually putting thought into a response, I'm gonna just spew a bunch of shit."puppylove_sugarsteel said:
Been living at investopedia Ex? Anybody with any business acumen wouldnt be spewing your plagiarized, verbatim and silly references. Give it up buttfuck.2001400ex said:It depends, are you talking diluted EPS? What is the cause of shares outstanding declining? From purchase of treasury stock or other reasons.
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I figured you wouldnt get it it Ex. Further proves my point .
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Ok. A few of many.2001400ex said:
Well you could start with something that's wrong in my post. You can assume a lot from the original post, however the only thing I can gather is that since growth has slowed, clearly or economy is not doing well.HoustonHusky said:
There is so much misinformation in this post not sure where to start. If you want to talk US economic growth...go look at GDP stats. The original post I'm assuming is referencing the relative increase in stock prices vs. actual earnings growth, and how there has been a growing disjuncture between the two. Turning it into a claim about the US economy is FS.2001400ex said:
It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn.
BTW...love zerohedge. Fun blog to read, even if I don't buy all the doom and gloom.
I would not agree that there is a disconnect between earnings and stock market price. Look at EPS for the stock market as a whole, it's still at the lower end of the spectrum.
While EPS is not the only indicator of the economy, it's still a factor. If earnings are declining, then it's an indicator it a pending recession. But there is a lag, as there is with everything in a large economy. However the chart is still showing EPS growth. Clearly sarktastic can't read the chart.
- Its FS to think corporate earnings are solely correlated to only the US economy while in a global economy.
- Its FS to think the stock market, EPS, or anything like that is linearly representative of overall US economic growth (i.e. you saying "yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010"). The stock market has historically grown at, what 7% rate, while the economy has grown much less. Numerous reasons, with one of many being that its partially dependent on return against the "risk free rate of return", and with interest rates rate now at historically abnormal conditions...
- Its FS to say companies borrowing money on the cheap and buying back stock isn't impacting EPS numbers (one of many links here). Why again are companies like Apple and Microsoft issuing a boatload of bonds when they have huge amounts of cash on-hand?
- Its FS to say we've had 5 years of growth when the quarterly growth rate in 1Q 2014 was -2.1%.
- Its REALLY FS to say EPS is on the lower spectrum...(link). No clue what the F you meant to say, but it wasn't that. Maybe you meant P/E ratio, but that's not and has gone up even as actual GDP growth has been rather anemic, so no luck for you there either.
- Its really FS to say the economy the last couple of years has been anything decent compared to where it should be historically:
(there are a million of these comparisons...none of them look good for the current "recovery".
I could go on but you should get the drift (or not...lets be honest here). Give Obama credit. He's grown one thing better than anybody before him. People on Food Stamps. Up 40 or 50% under him...I guess its something to be proud of... -
The subject is the lack of growth not your phony unemployment numbers. It's not embarrassing for me at all. I'm not an Obama hack2001400ex said:
Lol, you don't like he numbers so they are phony. How did I know that was your answer. Really it's just embarrassing for you.RaceBannon said:Don't forget Reagan policies worked. Obama's haven't.
We already covered the phony unemployment numbers. You weren't there and you're just a hack now so never mind. Obama is great. All is well. -
So who is embarrassing hondo? These are the numbers you avoidedHoustonHusky said:
Ok. A few of many.2001400ex said:
Well you could start with something that's wrong in my post. You can assume a lot from the original post, however the only thing I can gather is that since growth has slowed, clearly or economy is not doing well.HoustonHusky said:
There is so much misinformation in this post not sure where to start. If you want to talk US economic growth...go look at GDP stats. The original post I'm assuming is referencing the relative increase in stock prices vs. actual earnings growth, and how there has been a growing disjuncture between the two. Turning it into a claim about the US economy is FS.2001400ex said:
It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn.
BTW...love zerohedge. Fun blog to read, even if I don't buy all the doom and gloom.
I would not agree that there is a disconnect between earnings and stock market price. Look at EPS for the stock market as a whole, it's still at the lower end of the spectrum.
While EPS is not the only indicator of the economy, it's still a factor. If earnings are declining, then it's an indicator it a pending recession. But there is a lag, as there is with everything in a large economy. However the chart is still showing EPS growth. Clearly sarktastic can't read the chart.
- Its FS to think corporate earnings are solely correlated to only the US economy while in a global economy.
- Its FS to think the stock market, EPS, or anything like that is linearly representative of overall US economic growth (i.e. you saying "yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010"). The stock market has historically grown at, what 7% rate, while the economy has grown much less. Numerous reasons, with one of many being that its partially dependent on return against the "risk free rate of return", and with interest rates rate now at historically abnormal conditions...
- Its FS to say companies borrowing money on the cheap and buying back stock isn't impacting EPS numbers (one of many links here). Why again are companies like Apple and Microsoft issuing a boatload of bonds when they have huge amounts of cash on-hand?
- Its FS to say we've had 5 years of growth when the quarterly growth rate in 1Q 2014 was -2.1%.
- Its REALLY FS to say EPS is on the lower spectrum...(link). No clue what the F you meant to say, but it wasn't that. Maybe you meant P/E ratio, but that's not and has gone up even as actual GDP growth has been rather anemic, so no luck for you there either.
- Its really FS to say the economy the last couple of years has been anything decent compared to where it should be historically:
(there are a million of these comparisons...none of them look good for the current "recovery".
I could go on but you should get the drift (or not...lets be honest here). Give Obama credit. He's grown one thing better than anybody before him. People on Food Stamps. Up 40 or 50% under him...I guess its something to be proud of... -
I'm on a phone so I can't respond to everything. Yes I meant PE ratio, not EPS.HoustonHusky said:
Ok. A few of many.2001400ex said:
Well you could start with something that's wrong in my post. You can assume a lot from the original post, however the only thing I can gather is that since growth has slowed, clearly or economy is not doing well.HoustonHusky said:
There is so much misinformation in this post not sure where to start. If you want to talk US economic growth...go look at GDP stats. The original post I'm assuming is referencing the relative increase in stock prices vs. actual earnings growth, and how there has been a growing disjuncture between the two. Turning it into a claim about the US economy is FS.2001400ex said:
It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn.
BTW...love zerohedge. Fun blog to read, even if I don't buy all the doom and gloom.
I would not agree that there is a disconnect between earnings and stock market price. Look at EPS for the stock market as a whole, it's still at the lower end of the spectrum.
While EPS is not the only indicator of the economy, it's still a factor. If earnings are declining, then it's an indicator it a pending recession. But there is a lag, as there is with everything in a large economy. However the chart is still showing EPS growth. Clearly sarktastic can't read the chart.
- Its FS to think corporate earnings are solely correlated to only the US economy while in a global economy.
- Its FS to think the stock market, EPS, or anything like that is linearly representative of overall US economic growth (i.e. you saying "yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010"). The stock market has historically grown at, what 7% rate, while the economy has grown much less. Numerous reasons, with one of many being that its partially dependent on return against the "risk free rate of return", and with interest rates rate now at historically abnormal conditions...
- Its FS to say companies borrowing money on the cheap and buying back stock isn't impacting EPS numbers (one of many links here). Why again are companies like Apple and Microsoft issuing a boatload of bonds when they have huge amounts of cash on-hand?
- Its FS to say we've had 5 years of growth when the quarterly growth rate in 1Q 2014 was -2.1%.
- Its REALLY FS to say EPS is on the lower spectrum...(link). No clue what the F you meant to say, but it wasn't that. Maybe you meant P/E ratio, but that's not and has gone up even as actual GDP growth has been rather anemic, so no luck for you there either.
- Its really FS to say the economy the last couple of years has been anything decent compared to where it should be historically:
(there are a million of these comparisons...none of them look good for the current "recovery".
I could go on but you should get the drift (or not...lets be honest here). Give Obama credit. He's grown one thing better than anybody before him. People on Food Stamps. Up 40 or 50% under him...I guess its something to be proud of...
Companies like Microsoft and apple are issuing bonds because their cash is overseas due to the tax structure.
Of course it's FS to correlate the economy solely to the stock market, I've already said that, talk to the OP on that one.
We have had 5 YEARS of growth, I didn't say 20 quarters. Look at why the GDP went down, and look at the GDP the next quarter. Not one economist talked recession, which is two straight quarters of decline.
For the economy, it isn't perfect. There's good and bad parts to it. If you are college educated with the right degree, then it's great. My field, unemployment is very low and businesses are begging for people. The part that is struggling is the people that did well in 2004-2007, the meth heads that made $15 an hour under the table framing homes. Yeah they don't have jobs now. Yes that's very simplified, I don't have the time right now to provide a proper response.
For those charts, yes the recovery wasn't as good or as quick, but also notice a couple things. One, this recession was much stronger than the others. Two, you see each recovery was less strong than the previous. Don't you think that over time, as our economy has gotten bigger, it makes it harder to expand quickly?
Lastly, show me one comment where I have supported Obama. I have pointed out facts to refute bullshit. Because there are a lot of lies spewed around here. Your post was above average. However I do question why you are trying to paint the economy as being horrible. When it's not. -
What's embarrassing is your lack of any contribution. Nice job jumping on his back. You do have something in common with KimFS.RaceBannon said:
So who is embarrassing hondo? These are the numbers you avoidedHoustonHusky said:
Ok. A few of many.2001400ex said:
Well you could start with something that's wrong in my post. You can assume a lot from the original post, however the only thing I can gather is that since growth has slowed, clearly or economy is not doing well.HoustonHusky said:
There is so much misinformation in this post not sure where to start. If you want to talk US economic growth...go look at GDP stats. The original post I'm assuming is referencing the relative increase in stock prices vs. actual earnings growth, and how there has been a growing disjuncture between the two. Turning it into a claim about the US economy is FS.2001400ex said:
It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn.
BTW...love zerohedge. Fun blog to read, even if I don't buy all the doom and gloom.
I would not agree that there is a disconnect between earnings and stock market price. Look at EPS for the stock market as a whole, it's still at the lower end of the spectrum.
While EPS is not the only indicator of the economy, it's still a factor. If earnings are declining, then it's an indicator it a pending recession. But there is a lag, as there is with everything in a large economy. However the chart is still showing EPS growth. Clearly sarktastic can't read the chart.
- Its FS to think corporate earnings are solely correlated to only the US economy while in a global economy.
- Its FS to think the stock market, EPS, or anything like that is linearly representative of overall US economic growth (i.e. you saying "yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010"). The stock market has historically grown at, what 7% rate, while the economy has grown much less. Numerous reasons, with one of many being that its partially dependent on return against the "risk free rate of return", and with interest rates rate now at historically abnormal conditions...
- Its FS to say companies borrowing money on the cheap and buying back stock isn't impacting EPS numbers (one of many links here). Why again are companies like Apple and Microsoft issuing a boatload of bonds when they have huge amounts of cash on-hand?
- Its FS to say we've had 5 years of growth when the quarterly growth rate in 1Q 2014 was -2.1%.
- Its REALLY FS to say EPS is on the lower spectrum...(link). No clue what the F you meant to say, but it wasn't that. Maybe you meant P/E ratio, but that's not and has gone up even as actual GDP growth has been rather anemic, so no luck for you there either.
- Its really FS to say the economy the last couple of years has been anything decent compared to where it should be historically:
(there are a million of these comparisons...none of them look good for the current "recovery".
I could go on but you should get the drift (or not...lets be honest here). Give Obama credit. He's grown one thing better than anybody before him. People on Food Stamps. Up 40 or 50% under him...I guess its something to be proud of... -
My contribution was telling your dumb ass that Reagan far out performed Obama2001400ex said:
What's embarrassing is your lack of any contribution. Nice job jumping on his back. You do have something in common with KimFS.RaceBannon said:
So who is embarrassing hondo? These are the numbers you avoidedHoustonHusky said:
Ok. A few of many.2001400ex said:
Well you could start with something that's wrong in my post. You can assume a lot from the original post, however the only thing I can gather is that since growth has slowed, clearly or economy is not doing well.HoustonHusky said:
There is so much misinformation in this post not sure where to start. If you want to talk US economic growth...go look at GDP stats. The original post I'm assuming is referencing the relative increase in stock prices vs. actual earnings growth, and how there has been a growing disjuncture between the two. Turning it into a claim about the US economy is FS.2001400ex said:
It's year over year sales and earnings per share. In other words, it shows 5 straight years of growth. And yes of course growth is slowing, that's what happens after 5 years of continual growth.sarktastic said:By all means, please, tell us what you think this means. Your last entry indicates you're confused... again
It's funny, you'll say that Obama had the slowest recovery every, yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010. See the hypocrisy? It's how you lie with stats.
Now.... Let's hear your interpretation. Give me about 5 minutes tho to make some popcorn.
BTW...love zerohedge. Fun blog to read, even if I don't buy all the doom and gloom.
I would not agree that there is a disconnect between earnings and stock market price. Look at EPS for the stock market as a whole, it's still at the lower end of the spectrum.
While EPS is not the only indicator of the economy, it's still a factor. If earnings are declining, then it's an indicator it a pending recession. But there is a lag, as there is with everything in a large economy. However the chart is still showing EPS growth. Clearly sarktastic can't read the chart.
- Its FS to think corporate earnings are solely correlated to only the US economy while in a global economy.
- Its FS to think the stock market, EPS, or anything like that is linearly representative of overall US economic growth (i.e. you saying "yet that chat indicates a smoking economy in 2010"). The stock market has historically grown at, what 7% rate, while the economy has grown much less. Numerous reasons, with one of many being that its partially dependent on return against the "risk free rate of return", and with interest rates rate now at historically abnormal conditions...
- Its FS to say companies borrowing money on the cheap and buying back stock isn't impacting EPS numbers (one of many links here). Why again are companies like Apple and Microsoft issuing a boatload of bonds when they have huge amounts of cash on-hand?
- Its FS to say we've had 5 years of growth when the quarterly growth rate in 1Q 2014 was -2.1%.
- Its REALLY FS to say EPS is on the lower spectrum...(link). No clue what the F you meant to say, but it wasn't that. Maybe you meant P/E ratio, but that's not and has gone up even as actual GDP growth has been rather anemic, so no luck for you there either.
- Its really FS to say the economy the last couple of years has been anything decent compared to where it should be historically:
(there are a million of these comparisons...none of them look good for the current "recovery".
I could go on but you should get the drift (or not...lets be honest here). Give Obama credit. He's grown one thing better than anybody before him. People on Food Stamps. Up 40 or 50% under him...I guess its something to be proud of...
I was right. You're an Obama hack
Water is wet -
Ok...so you meant PE ratio...you're still wrong. Go look up the numbers yourself...historically its around 15, right now its over 20.
It has nothing to do with oversees earnings and everything to do with a) borrowing on the REALLY cheap and b) borrowing to incur debt to lower their taxes.
The OP didn't make any FS statement about booming in 2010...he said "Makes you wonder where EPS would be if we didn't have record LBB's since interest rates have been artificially frozen at zero, doesn't it, Honda." And as both he did and I did in a previous link (here again)...if interest rates weren't so artificially low to the point that companies wouldn't be issuing debt just to buy back shares the EPS numbers would have been horrible the last couple of years. You are the one that ran into lala land from that comment. Sad part is companies should be spending that money on actually growing their businesses, but they don't trust the current policy and economy enough to do so and they instead plow their money into buying back shares. Which is part of the reason why the stock market has been going up while the broader economy still blows. Scary part is one of the main sectors where huge capital investments have been going on is oil/shale gas, and that's grinding to a stop right now.
The economy blows. The stock market is doing great so those of us with experience in specialized fields are fine, but for the US as a whole it blows. I know you think everyone who doesn't have a 4 year degree, 401K and other money in the stock market are "meth heads that made $15 an hour under the table framing homes", but that ain't true. Even for the newly educated its not true...hell, only 65% of college grads are employed, and only 36% of them are in full-time, permanent jobs. Median income and household net worth is actually down under Obama...as damning a stat as there should be. I love how liberals look down on the majority of Americans as being awful people and something they aren't all while trying to "help" them.
Yet another stat to be proud of in this economy...more people have left the work force under Obama than found new jobs. The employment numbers reported now are lies...if you think unemployment is under 6% I've got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
This recession was much stronger than previous? More FS statements...go look at the economy under Jimmy Carter 1 and get back to me...it blew monkey balls and was way worse than '07. Inflation alone was something like 12% his last two years.
An for the last...recoveries haven't gotten progressively milder:
Maybe you meant to say your expectations in the economy got milder with O in charge?
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HoustonHusky said:
Ok...so you meant PE ratio...you're still wrong. Go look up the numbers yourself...historically its around 15, right now its over 20.
It has nothing to do with oversees earnings and everything to do with a) borrowing on the REALLY cheap and b) borrowing to incur debt to lower their taxes.
The OP didn't make any FS statement about booming in 2010...he said "Makes you wonder where EPS would be if we didn't have record LBB's since interest rates have been artificially frozen at zero, doesn't it, Honda." And as both he did and I did in a previous link (here again)...if interest rates weren't so artificially low to the point that companies wouldn't be issuing debt just to buy back shares the EPS numbers would have been horrible the last couple of years. You are the one that ran into lala land from that comment. Sad part is companies should be spending that money on actually growing their businesses, but they don't trust the current policy and economy enough to do so and they instead plow their money into buying back shares. Which is part of the reason why the stock market has been going up while the broader economy still blows. Scary part is one of the main sectors where huge capital investments have been going on is oil/shale gas, and that's grinding to a stop right now.
The economy blows. The stock market is doing great so those of us with experience in specialized fields are fine, but for the US as a whole it blows. I know you think everyone who doesn't have a 4 year degree, 401K and other money in the stock market are "meth heads that made $15 an hour under the table framing homes", but that ain't true. Even for the newly educated its not true...hell, only 65% of college grads are employed, and only 36% of them are in full-time, permanent jobs. Median income and household net worth is actually down under Obama...as damning a stat as there should be. I love how liberals look down on the majority of Americans as being awful people and something they aren't all while trying to "help" them.
Yet another stat to be proud of in this economy...more people have left the work force under Obama than found new jobs. The employment numbers reported now are lies...if you think unemployment is under 6% I've got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
This recession was much stronger than previous? More FS statements...go look at the economy under Jimmy Carter 1 and get back to me...it blew monkey balls and was way worse than '07. Inflation alone was something like 12% his last two years.
An for the last...recoveries haven't gotten progressively milder:
Maybe you meant to say your expectations in the economy got milder with O in charge?
Now we are getting somewhere. Someone is actually attempting to post facts. Congrats.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_United_States
You were quoting GDP, so here are the recessions:
2008 - 18 months - 4.3% decline
2001 - 8 months - .3%
1990 - 8 months - 1.4%
1982 - 16 months - 2.7%
1980 - 6 months - 2.2%
1974 - 16 months - 3.2%
1970 - 11 months - .6%
For the OPs statements, read the fucking title to the thread. Yes he clearly made reference to the economy.
Nice reaching by saying I'm talking down on others. If you can read, I was pointing out the fact that SOME people with college degrees are doing well. Others not so much. And the typical blue collar job that built this country is hard to find right now. Mostly because we are transitioning to a technology based economy. My buddy who used to work at Microsoft said they are hiring people right out of college for $100k a year because they need people.
Yes if you look at chart of the recoveries in your first post, recoveries have gotten progressively slower, it's right there in the charts. But it all depends on what stats you want to use.
Is the economy great? No. Is it good? Yes. Unemployment is using the exact same formula under Reagan. So yes those stats are comparable. There are many positive aspects to this economy and many negative parts. But to say the economy is shitty is just plain dumb.
