I like to say this year will be the first real NCAA football champion..
http://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs
Comments
-
You might also be this asshole.
PM to Race, can you 'shop some duck gear on that douche? -
Awfully warm for Jan. 12th
-
Curiously enough, I didn't read Alabama x15 or UWx3 in that list.
Certainly pre-1998 is a festival of stupid outcomes and nebulous claims to shit not awarded by any reputable organizations.
And 1871 was special. -
The Alabama Crimson Tide football team represents the University of Alabama (variously Alabama, UA, or 'Bama) in the sport of American football. The Crimson Tide competes in the Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) of the National Collegiate Athletics Association (NCAA) and the Western Division of the Southeastern Conference (SEC).[5] The team is currently coached by Nick Saban. The Crimson Tide is among the most storied and decorated programs in NCAA history. Since beginning play in 1892, the program recognizes 15 of the national championships awarded to the team,[2][6][7] including 10 wire-service (AP or Coaches) national titles in the poll-era, the most of any current FBS program.[8] From 1958 to 1982, the team was led by Hall of Fame coach Paul "Bear" Bryant, who won six national championships with the program.[6] Despite numerous national and conference championships, it was not until 2009 that an Alabama player received a Heisman Trophy, when running back Mark Ingram became the university's first winner.[9]
As of the completion of the 2013 season, Alabama has 838 official victories[a][b] in NCAA Division I (an additional 21 victories were vacated and 8 victories and 1 tie were forfeited), has won 28 conference championships (4 Southern Conference and 24 SEC championships) and has made an NCAA-record 60 postseason bowl appearances. Other NCAA records include 23 10-game+ win streaks and 19 seasons with a 10–0 start. The program has had 32 10–win seasons (plus one vacated),[10][11] and has 35[b] bowl victories, both NCAA records.[12] Alabama has completed 10 undefeated seasons, 9 of which were perfect seasons. The Crimson Tide leads the SEC West Division with ten division titles and nine appearances in the SEC Championship Game. Alabama holds a winning record against every current and former SEC school. The Associated Press (AP) ranks Alabama 4th in all-time final AP Poll appearances, with 51 through the 2013 season.[13][14]
Alabama plays its home games at Bryant–Denny Stadium, located on the campus in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.[1] With a capacity of 101,821,[1] Bryant-Denny is the 10th largest non-racing stadium in the world and the seventh largest stadium in the United States, behind only Michigan Stadium, Beaver Stadium (Penn State), Kyle Field (Texas A&M), Neyland Stadium (Tennessee), Ohio Stadium (Ohio St.), and Tiger Stadium (LSU). -
So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted. -
QPOTD!Canard said:Curiously enough, I didn't read Alabama x15 or UWx3 in that list.
Certainly pre-1998 is a festival of stupid outcomes and nebulous claims to shit not awarded by any reputable organizations.
And 1871 was special.
Would've been quookier if you said 1994, but we'll let it slide this time... -
The hilarious thing is despite all those stupid outcomes and nebulous claims by irreputable organizations, nobody has ever picked Oregon for any of them.Canard said:Curiously enough, I didn't read Alabama x15 or UWx3 in that list.
Certainly pre-1998 is a festival of stupid outcomes and nebulous claims to shit not awarded by any reputable organizations.
And 1871 was special.
Maybe it wasn't quite so easy to win an MNC and pop off, after all. -
Perhapsdnc said:
The hilarious thing is despite all those stupid outcomes and nebulous claims by irreputable organizations, nobody has ever picked Oregon for any of them.Canard said:Curiously enough, I didn't read Alabama x15 or UWx3 in that list.
Certainly pre-1998 is a festival of stupid outcomes and nebulous claims to shit not awarded by any reputable organizations.
And 1871 was special.
Maybe it wasn't quite so easy to win an MNC and pop off, after all.
But still -
This is the 17th year of a formal playoff system in FBS. They just expanded the playoff field from two to four this year.
-
UCLA didn't really win 10 titles and 7 in a row because many of them were in a 16 team tourney
#ThingsLosersSay -
Lol. As if UCLA "chose to recognize" some self-important fucktards with a beyond obscure poll published from momma's basement "awarding" them a basketball championship.RaceBannon said:UCLA didn't really win 10 titles and 7 in a row because many of them were in a 16 team tourney
#ThingsLosersSay -
Have I ever claimed oregon football has won jack shit? No.dnc said:
The hilarious thing is despite all those stupid outcomes and nebulous claims by irreputable organizations, nobody has ever picked Oregon for any of them.Canard said:Curiously enough, I didn't read Alabama x15 or UWx3 in that list.
Certainly pre-1998 is a festival of stupid outcomes and nebulous claims to shit not awarded by any reputable organizations.
And 1871 was special.
Maybe it wasn't quite so easy to win an MNC and pop off, after all.
I am bemused by the practice of post hoc "recognition" of MNCs based upon the thinnest of pretexts.
Laugh all you want to, but pre-98 NCs are debased. -
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off. -
I'd agree with that if someone else said it.Canard said:bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Wait I said it earlier this week
Agree -
Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Ugh, your schedule this year, even with the two bowl game playoffs (assuming you win) would not be the toughest path to claim a NC. I'm too lazy to research it but i seriously doubt your schedule matches up the the toughest ever. Shit, I think UW 1991 was harder than yours this year with playing SC, Cal, Nebraska, Michigan. Michigan State, Arizona (lol), Florida State, and Alabama not that much different. -
Wait, I do not see Washington's name listed for 1960.MikeDamone said:and all others before this year were MNC's... I also like to say the NCAA hasn't recognized a NCAA football champion prior to this year... I'm also a dumbfuck duck..
http://www.ncaa.com/history/football/fbs
Todd Tuner!! True?? -
TCU says hiCanard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off. -
Oregon would have snapped a 29 game winning streak, and beaten the greatest college coach in the modern era in back to back weeks. They would also have victories over another top 10 team, a top 15 team on the road, and another top 15 team for the conference crown.LawDawg1 said:Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Ugh, your schedule this year, even with the two bowl game playoffs (assuming you win) would not be the toughest path to claim a NC. I'm too lazy to research it but i seriously doubt your schedule matches up the the toughest ever. Shit, I think UW 1991 was harder than yours this year with playing SC, Cal, Nebraska, Michigan. Michigan State, Arizona (lol), Florida State, and Alabama not that much different.
You my friend are a moron -
He is a moron, but Catard somehow manages to always be the biggest dunce on every thread he participates in.greenblood said:
Oregon would have snapped a 29 game winning streak, and beaten the greatest college coach in the modern era in back to back weeks. They would also have victories over another top 10 team, a top 15 team on the road, and another top 15 team for the conference crown.LawDawg1 said:Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Ugh, your schedule this year, even with the two bowl game playoffs (assuming you win) would not be the toughest path to claim a NC. I'm too lazy to research it but i seriously doubt your schedule matches up the the toughest ever. Shit, I think UW 1991 was harder than yours this year with playing SC, Cal, Nebraska, Michigan. Michigan State, Arizona (lol), Florida State, and Alabama not that much different.
You my friend are a moron -
WTF'd for saying the Pac-12 North champions had a tough road.Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
-
So, in your world, the Ducks path will be the most difficult EVAH, because you don't like UW?Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Got it.
How old ARE you?
Are you aware of any NC's other than the '91 Dawgs, and your potential team this year? No? Possibly some Miami, ND, Bamako, USC squads may have had a challenge getting to the NC? Doesn't ring a bell?
You are a myopic fucking quook of the highest order.
Fuck off already -
Fucking lol. They gave up 61 to fucking Baylor.HuskyJW said:
TCU says hiCanard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off. -
That is impossible in any thread in which you open your butt munching hole, dipshit.oregonblitzkrieg said:
He is a moron, but Catard somehow manages to always be the biggest dunce on every thread he participates in.greenblood said:
Oregon would have snapped a 29 game winning streak, and beaten the greatest college coach in the modern era in back to back weeks. They would also have victories over another top 10 team, a top 15 team on the road, and another top 15 team for the conference crown.LawDawg1 said:Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Ugh, your schedule this year, even with the two bowl game playoffs (assuming you win) would not be the toughest path to claim a NC. I'm too lazy to research it but i seriously doubt your schedule matches up the the toughest ever. Shit, I think UW 1991 was harder than yours this year with playing SC, Cal, Nebraska, Michigan. Michigan State, Arizona (lol), Florida State, and Alabama not that much different.
You my friend are a moron -
The Ducks cannot help it that you guys have sucked hard for 14 straight years.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
WTF'd for saying the Pac-12 North champions had a tough road.Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off. -
Fucking lol. Losing by 3 at Baylor >>>>>>>>>> Losing by 7 at home to Arizona.Canard said:
Fucking lol. They gave up 61 to fucking Baylor.HuskyJW said:
TCU says hiCanard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
There's an argument against TCU, but it's not based on discussing the game they lost. -
You mean 3-8 USC? You played three ranked squads all season. #9 Nebraska, (road), #7 Cal, (road), and #4 UM, (neutral).LawDawg1 said:Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Ugh, your schedule this year, even with the two bowl game playoffs (assuming you win) would not be the toughest path to claim a NC. I'm too lazy to research it but i seriously doubt your schedule matches up the the toughest ever. Shit, I think UW 1991 was harder than yours this year with playing SC, Cal, Nebraska, Michigan. Michigan State, Arizona (lol), Florida State, and Alabama not that much different.
The Ducks have beaten #22 Utah, (road), #14 UCLA, (road), #10 UA, (neutral), #8 Mich St., (home), and if they beat #3 FSU and #1 Bama, at neutral sites, it isn't even close.
Yeah, big IF, but hellishly tough if it happens.
-
The Quooks ryk. If the ducks pull it off, that's a hell of a road. I"m not willing to say it's TUFFer than anyone in history, but it's easily tuffer than the 91 Dawgs schedule.Canard said:
You mean 3-8 USC? You played three ranked squads all season. #9 Nebraska, (road), #7 Cal, (road), and #4 UM, (neutral).LawDawg1 said:Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Ugh, your schedule this year, even with the two bowl game playoffs (assuming you win) would not be the toughest path to claim a NC. I'm too lazy to research it but i seriously doubt your schedule matches up the the toughest ever. Shit, I think UW 1991 was harder than yours this year with playing SC, Cal, Nebraska, Michigan. Michigan State, Arizona (lol), Florida State, and Alabama not that much different.
The Ducks have beaten #22 Utah, (road), #14 UCLA, (road), #10 UA, (neutral), #8 Mich St., (home), and if they beat #3 FSU and #1 Bama, at neutral sites, it isn't even close.
Yeah, big IF, but hellishly tough if it happens.
OTOH, the 91 Dawgs didn't lose at home to Rick Rod. lulz.
-
Six of your conference foes in '91 were .500 (asu), or worse, (USC, UA, Wazzu, UO, OSU) in conference play.dnc said:
The Quooks ryk. If the ducks pull it off, that's a hell of a road. I"m not willing to say it's TUFFer than anyone in history, but it's easily tuffer than the 91 Dawgs schedule.Canard said:
You mean 3-8 USC? You played three ranked squads all season. #9 Nebraska, (road), #7 Cal, (road), and #4 UM, (neutral).LawDawg1 said:Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Ugh, your schedule this year, even with the two bowl game playoffs (assuming you win) would not be the toughest path to claim a NC. I'm too lazy to research it but i seriously doubt your schedule matches up the the toughest ever. Shit, I think UW 1991 was harder than yours this year with playing SC, Cal, Nebraska, Michigan. Michigan State, Arizona (lol), Florida State, and Alabama not that much different.
The Ducks have beaten #22 Utah, (road), #14 UCLA, (road), #10 UA, (neutral), #8 Mich St., (home), and if they beat #3 FSU and #1 Bama, at neutral sites, it isn't even close.
Yeah, big IF, but hellishly tough if it happens.
OTOH, the 91 Dawgs didn't lose at home to Rick Rod. lulz. -
Conference wins are a zero sum game. The relative distribution of those wins does nothing to prove the difficulty of the conference from one year to another.Canard said:
Six of your conference foes in '91 were .500 (asu), or worse, (USC, UA, Wazzu, UO, OSU) in conference play.dnc said:
The Quooks ryk. If the ducks pull it off, that's a hell of a road. I"m not willing to say it's TUFFer than anyone in history, but it's easily tuffer than the 91 Dawgs schedule.Canard said:
You mean 3-8 USC? You played three ranked squads all season. #9 Nebraska, (road), #7 Cal, (road), and #4 UM, (neutral).LawDawg1 said:Canard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
Ugh, your schedule this year, even with the two bowl game playoffs (assuming you win) would not be the toughest path to claim a NC. I'm too lazy to research it but i seriously doubt your schedule matches up the the toughest ever. Shit, I think UW 1991 was harder than yours this year with playing SC, Cal, Nebraska, Michigan. Michigan State, Arizona (lol), Florida State, and Alabama not that much different.
The Ducks have beaten #22 Utah, (road), #14 UCLA, (road), #10 UA, (neutral), #8 Mich St., (home), and if they beat #3 FSU and #1 Bama, at neutral sites, it isn't even close.
Yeah, big IF, but hellishly tough if it happens.
OTOH, the 91 Dawgs didn't lose at home to Rick Rod. lulz. -
Baylor is a huge canker sore on TCU because Baylor schedules like a pedo-bear. That loss, and the way it happened, along with the Frogs' best win being over a "meh" KSU squad, means the TCU can't really say shit about being snubbed.dnc said:
Fucking lol. Losing by 3 at Baylor >>>>>>>>>> Losing by 7 at home to Arizona.Canard said:
Fucking lol. They gave up 61 to fucking Baylor.HuskyJW said:
TCU says hiCanard said:
No. However, if Oregon takes it this year, they will have had the toughest path ever to claim one. If you think that aspect of the playoff is debatable, you're fucking delusional.bananasnblondes said:So if the ducks win it this year they are the greatest football program of all time, correct? They would have won the most national championships.
The sad thing is there are many many duck fans who think this way. Just like the "nothing before 1998 counts" shit that the dumbfuck in this thread has already posted.
There's none of that, "we'd have killed BYU" or "Miami didn't deserve to share," and other hypothetical shit.
Cut through the defending and undefeated champ and then take out the preeminent program of the era if Alabama is in Dallas?
That trophy will be unassailably earned if the Ducks pull it off.
There's an argument against TCU, but it's not based on discussing the game they lost.
