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DoubleJDawg
Member Posts: 636
Re: the last 30 seconds, even day after I've been really struggling with your belief that this was the right call because we should have feared a 4th and 6 which they'd only go for if we called TO, and that our offense was so bad and no kickoff returns were returned long that day so giving us zero chance for either was better than a small chance, etc...
Today in the pole you expand that a bit to say that "most" coaches will make the same call in the coming weeks, which I take to mean you believe this was the right call regardless of any other factors
You seem pretty confident on this point - can you share some any examples from the past where a coach did something similar at the end of a game? Bonus points if the coach isn't fucktarded but any examples will do
Using the timeouts just seems such an obvious choice (and one we've seen countless coaches do in that situation) and would be great to see some examples of your counterpoint
Today in the pole you expand that a bit to say that "most" coaches will make the same call in the coming weeks, which I take to mean you believe this was the right call regardless of any other factors
You seem pretty confident on this point - can you share some any examples from the past where a coach did something similar at the end of a game? Bonus points if the coach isn't fucktarded but any examples will do
Using the timeouts just seems such an obvious choice (and one we've seen countless coaches do in that situation) and would be great to see some examples of your counterpoint
Comments
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I thought it was 4th and about 2 or so as Arizona ran the ball on 3rd down to pick up the first and got stuffed.
My general recollection is that facing similar situations coaches tend to let the clock run down. I'm sitting in a bar right now so I'm not in a position to go look up stuff from the past.
One thing to keep in mind is let's say that we call the timeout and then in our aggressiveness to block the kick we go offsides or commit some other penalty ... Then Arizona has 30 seconds and a timeout to get closer.
He made a 47 yard FG - kudos to him. -
No - it was 4th and 6 - just went back and checked it - Solomon got stopped for no gain. Does that change your opinion at all?
I'm curious why you think they would have only gone for it if we called TO - they run hurry up they probably get another play off in 10 seconds, or they could have used their own timeout -
It was really stupid. It shouldn't be argued. It's basic clock management. If he missed the 46 yarder, you kneel one time and the game is over.
Yesterday Tequilla said if Petersen called time out Arizona could have went for it. It was 4th down and Arizona was down 2 points. That should tell you all you need to know about what you are dealing with. -
I said that bc I thought it was 4th and short - opinion would not be the same at 4th and 6 about rich rod going for it.
The kick was going to decide the game - we weren't going to score if we called the timeout - no logical reason to think that we would. -
How do you not realize how stupid this is? Are you fucking kidding me?Tequilla said:I said that bc I thought it was 4th and short - opinion would not be the same at 4th and 6 about rich rod going for it.
The kick was going to decide the game - we weren't going to score if we called the timeout - no logical reason to think that we would. -
Which part?
KO goes through the end zone. Where is Miles going to find the 40 yards to get into FG range? Running a 2 minute drill requires command and leadership out of the QB position - not his strengths. -
We know the game was PROBABLY over. Miles likely would not have gotten into FG range. I give up. You're hopeless. You can believe what you want to believe.Tequilla said:Which part?
KO goes through the end zone. Where is Miles going to find the 40 yards to get into FG range? Running a 2 minute drill requires command and leadership out of the QB position - not his strengths. -
That would be one of my biggest criticisms for the coaching staff...call a TO there, save the TO on the kick (which could end up being reverse-psychology on a kicker expecting a TO freeze), and then have 1 or 2 left over for a desperation drive (important in case Miles runs a good distance on a passing down where Arizona is worried about a deep pass).
Yes, it's another "What If" counter-factual scenario but a 4% chance of winning the game is better than 0%.
But all of the penalties, the bad snap on the PATs, the sloppy fumbles are too Sark-esque and the pace of rooting that stuff out isn't happening fast enough. Since we lost, it's magnified 100x more.
Lost in all of coaching criticism, no one is talking about Miles barely progressing. Two stupid fumbles, a lack of throwing the ball to only where his WRs can catch it (not to mention Kendyl Taylor making him look good) and his whiny body-language after a few hits are reprehensible to me.RoadDawg55 said:
We know the game was PROBABLY over. Miles likely would not have gotten into FG range. I give up. You're hopeless. You can believe what you want to believe.Tequilla said:Which part?
KO goes through the end zone. Where is Miles going to find the 40 yards to get into FG range? Running a 2 minute drill requires command and leadership out of the QB position - not his strengths. -
Yeah we are down to the crux of it - sure feels like a losers mentality to give up a slim chance to come back to have no chance at all. Really hope that wasn't petermans reason...
@Tequilla would you have wanted TCU to do that if they were in that position? I'm betting you would have wanted them to call timeout... -
No, because Boykin and TCU have shown they can score quickly (sarcasm). The fact that Tequilla thinks Miles' ability has anything to do with why weDoubleJDawg said:Yeah we are down to the crux of it - sure feels like a losers mentality to give up a slim chance to come back to have no chance at all. Really hope that wasn't petermans reason...
@Tequilla would you have wanted TCU to do that if they were in that position? I'm betting you would have wanted them to call timeout...thinkknow Peterman made a fucktarded decision speaks volumes. -
TCU blew a 21 point lead at Baylor that may cost them a shot at the National Title.DoubleJDawg said:Yeah we are down to the crux of it - sure feels like a losers mentality to give up a slim chance to come back to have no chance at all. Really hope that wasn't petermans reason...
@Tequilla would you have wanted TCU to do that if they were in that position? I'm betting you would have wanted them to call timeout...
Was I pissed? Absolutely.
Was I going to to go off all half cocked about any stupid decisions that Patterson made in that game? Absolutely not.
First thing that a lot of people on this board need to learn and realize is that no single play wins or loses you a game. Once that is grasped, you realize why getting pissed at one thing here and there is completely counterproductive. -
Yeah unless peterman thinks there is room for improvement, and a real chance for him to be the guy again next year, then we are at the point in the season where every snap he gets is a bit of a waste. I'd like to see them give Williams another shot even if just a couple series a game in the last two. Let's see if there is any upside there outside of a data point of a 60mph wind day against a top 10 team.HFNY said:
Lost in all of coaching criticism, no one is talking about Miles barely progressing. Two stupid fumbles, a lack of throwing the ball to only where his WRs can catch it (not to mention Kendyl Taylor making him look good) and his whiny body-language after a few hits are reprehensible to me. -
A quarterback as shitty as Miles who had gifted the ball to the opponent unforced was not going to take this offense to field goal position with the amount of time left on the clock. We've seen that situation or a similar one a few times now with Miles. He is fucking terrible, and when you can't throw plus now you're gifting the other team the ball unforced, you are the majority of the problems.RoadDawg55 said:
We know the game was PROBABLY over. Miles likely would not have gotten into FG range. I give up. You're hopeless. You can believe what you want to believe.Tequilla said:Which part?
KO goes through the end zone. Where is Miles going to find the 40 yards to get into FG range? Running a 2 minute drill requires command and leadership out of the QB position - not his strengths. -
You realize in the last 24 hours you're turned into the whiniest fucktard on this board?RoadDawg55 said:
No, because Boykin and TCU have shown they can score quickly (sarcasm). The fact that Tequilla thinks Miles' ability has anything to do with why weDoubleJDawg said:Yeah we are down to the crux of it - sure feels like a losers mentality to give up a slim chance to come back to have no chance at all. Really hope that wasn't petermans reason...
@Tequilla would you have wanted TCU to do that if they were in that position? I'm betting you would have wanted them to call timeout...thinkknow Peterman made a fucktarded decision speaks volumes.
Here's where you're absolutely full of shit ...
Petersen calls the timeout ... Arizona misses. We take over, have to make a snap, and Miles in all of his fucktarded wisdom decides to drop the snap and Arizona recovers. They turn around and kick a game winning FG. You'd be all up on Petersen's ass for the end game management in that situation.
It's really simple - you're expecting perfection. Very rarely are you going to have anything that approaches that. Even the best coaches make decisions that are easy to criticize in hindsight. Easy to get all up on Petey's ass today for how the Hawks lost. Your impatience would result in you firing a good coach too early on a consistent basis. I could give you a laundry list of coaches that are great coaches (ones that you'd clearly have no problem with being at the University of Washington) that you'd have run out of town because of some of their performances. -
This is fucktarded. When was the last time in the modern football era a snap has been fumbled in the Victory formation? I'll take those odds every fucking time.Tequilla said:
You realize in the last 24 hours you're turned into the whiniest fucktard on this board?RoadDawg55 said:
No, because Boykin and TCU have shown they can score quickly (sarcasm). The fact that Tequilla thinks Miles' ability has anything to do with why weDoubleJDawg said:Yeah we are down to the crux of it - sure feels like a losers mentality to give up a slim chance to come back to have no chance at all. Really hope that wasn't petermans reason...
@Tequilla would you have wanted TCU to do that if they were in that position? I'm betting you would have wanted them to call timeout...thinkknow Peterman made a fucktarded decision speaks volumes.
Here's where you're absolutely full of shit ...
Petersen calls the timeout ... Arizona misses. We take over, have to make a snap, and Miles in all of his fucktarded wisdom decides to drop the snap and Arizona recovers. They turn around and kick a game winning FG. You'd be all up on Petersen's ass for the end game management in that situation.
It's really simple - you're expecting perfection. Very rarely are you going to have anything that approaches that. Even the best coaches make decisions that are easy to criticize in hindsight. Easy to get all up on Petey's ass today for how the Hawks lost. Your impatience would result in you firing a good coach too early on a consistent basis. I could give you a laundry list of coaches that are great coaches (ones that you'd clearly have no problem with being at the University of Washington) that you'd have run out of town because of some of their performances.
Your argument falls apart in-light of this. -
Missing my point then ...pawz said:
This is fucktarded. When was the last time in the modern football era a snap has been fumbled in the Victory formation? I'll take those odds every fucking time.Tequilla said:
You realize in the last 24 hours you're turned into the whiniest fucktard on this board?RoadDawg55 said:
No, because Boykin and TCU have shown they can score quickly (sarcasm). The fact that Tequilla thinks Miles' ability has anything to do with why weDoubleJDawg said:Yeah we are down to the crux of it - sure feels like a losers mentality to give up a slim chance to come back to have no chance at all. Really hope that wasn't petermans reason...
@Tequilla would you have wanted TCU to do that if they were in that position? I'm betting you would have wanted them to call timeout...thinkknow Peterman made a fucktarded decision speaks volumes.
Here's where you're absolutely full of shit ...
Petersen calls the timeout ... Arizona misses. We take over, have to make a snap, and Miles in all of his fucktarded wisdom decides to drop the snap and Arizona recovers. They turn around and kick a game winning FG. You'd be all up on Petersen's ass for the end game management in that situation.
It's really simple - you're expecting perfection. Very rarely are you going to have anything that approaches that. Even the best coaches make decisions that are easy to criticize in hindsight. Easy to get all up on Petey's ass today for how the Hawks lost. Your impatience would result in you firing a good coach too early on a consistent basis. I could give you a laundry list of coaches that are great coaches (ones that you'd clearly have no problem with being at the University of Washington) that you'd have run out of town because of some of their performances.
Your argument falls apart in-light of this.
Odds of what I described happening are about .0001%.
Odds of our fanbase throwing blame on the coaching if that DID happen is about 99.9% likely. -
You've been on Petersen's nuts all season. You predicted 12-1. The Hawaii game was a well coached game. Non conference games didn't matter. Different excuses after every other loss. AuburnDawg would be extremely proud of you and the fact you have blamed everything and everyone but Petersen all season long. That used to be called a doog. I don't know what the fuck it's called anymore now that Petersen is coach.Tequilla said:
You realize in the last 24 hours you're turned into the whiniest fucktard on this board?RoadDawg55 said:
No, because Boykin and TCU have shown they can score quickly (sarcasm). The fact that Tequilla thinks Miles' ability has anything to do with why weDoubleJDawg said:Yeah we are down to the crux of it - sure feels like a losers mentality to give up a slim chance to come back to have no chance at all. Really hope that wasn't petermans reason...
@Tequilla would you have wanted TCU to do that if they were in that position? I'm betting you would have wanted them to call timeout...thinkknow Peterman made a fucktarded decision speaks volumes.
Here's where you're absolutely full of shit ...
Petersen calls the timeout ... Arizona misses. We take over, have to make a snap, and Miles in all of his fucktarded wisdom decides to drop the snap and Arizona recovers. They turn around and kick a game winning FG. You'd be all up on Petersen's ass for the end game management in that situation.
It's really simple - you're expecting perfection. Very rarely are you going to have anything that approaches that. Even the best coaches make decisions that are easy to criticize in hindsight. Easy to get all up on Petey's ass today for how the Hawks lost. Your impatience would result in you firing a good coach too early on a consistent basis. I could give you a laundry list of coaches that are great coaches (ones that you'd clearly have no problem with being at the University of Washington) that you'd have run out of town because of some of their performances.
I agree that Miles' fumbles and many other plays made a difference in the game. Without them, we aren't talking about this. But if you want to focus on that, how about a ton of penalties, shitty snaps, and missed extra points?
I think you are a fucking idiot because you can't seem to grasp why this was terrible clock management. If Miles fumbled a snap on a kneel down play, I would blame Miles all the way. You are really pressing with that.
I don't want Petersen run out of town. He will get his time. I will be as happy as anyone else if he wins big at UW. I didn't expect perfection. I expected 10 wins. I expected better than 2-5. Enough with the fucking excuses. Acknowledge that he has sucked this season and hasn't been what we hoped for. It doesn't mean we are doomed or there is no hope. But by all means, keep sucking Petersen's dick at every opportunity if that is what you want to do. -
QBs have had their hands up Center's asses since the beginning of time. If THAT gets fucked up in the victory formation, no way you blame a coach.Tequilla said:
Missing my point then ...pawz said:
This is fucktarded. When was the last time in the modern football era a snap has been fumbled in the Victory formation? I'll take those odds every fucking time.Tequilla said:
You realize in the last 24 hours you're turned into the whiniest fucktard on this board?RoadDawg55 said:
No, because Boykin and TCU have shown they can score quickly (sarcasm). The fact that Tequilla thinks Miles' ability has anything to do with why weDoubleJDawg said:Yeah we are down to the crux of it - sure feels like a losers mentality to give up a slim chance to come back to have no chance at all. Really hope that wasn't petermans reason...
@Tequilla would you have wanted TCU to do that if they were in that position? I'm betting you would have wanted them to call timeout...thinkknow Peterman made a fucktarded decision speaks volumes.
Here's where you're absolutely full of shit ...
Petersen calls the timeout ... Arizona misses. We take over, have to make a snap, and Miles in all of his fucktarded wisdom decides to drop the snap and Arizona recovers. They turn around and kick a game winning FG. You'd be all up on Petersen's ass for the end game management in that situation.
It's really simple - you're expecting perfection. Very rarely are you going to have anything that approaches that. Even the best coaches make decisions that are easy to criticize in hindsight. Easy to get all up on Petey's ass today for how the Hawks lost. Your impatience would result in you firing a good coach too early on a consistent basis. I could give you a laundry list of coaches that are great coaches (ones that you'd clearly have no problem with being at the University of Washington) that you'd have run out of town because of some of their performances.
Your argument falls apart in-light of this.
Odds of what I described happening are about .0001%.
Odds of our fanbase throwing blame on the coaching if that DID happen is about 99.9% likely.
But I don't bash the kids. Don't twist. -
You've clearly missed the 50-100 posts I've made this season calling the coaching out for the bad decisions that have been made. Some of those bad decisions have reasoning and rationale behind them. Sometimes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
It's really simple with our fanbase ...
We haven't won the conference since 2000 ... that's too long in the minds of many and the impatience gets ramped even higher each year.
Oregon's success makes the lack of success we have unbearable.
Our lack of success since 2000 isn't Petersen's fault ... but he's bearing the frustration of the fanbase for everything since 2000 ... which also isn't right. -
Or it's really been about this year, the fact he is 2-5, and hasn't beaten a winning team all year.Tequilla said:You've clearly missed the 50-100 posts I've made this season calling the coaching out for the bad decisions that have been made. Some of those bad decisions have reasoning and rationale behind them. Sometimes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
It's really simple with our fanbase ...
We haven't won the conference since 2000 ... that's too long in the minds of many and the impatience gets ramped even higher each year.
Oregon's success makes the lack of success we have unbearable.
Our lack of success since 2000 isn't Petersen's fault ... but he's bearing the frustration of the fanbase for everything since 2000 ... which also isn't right. -
Bringing this back around to the original question, @Tequilla, it sounds like there aren't really games which come to mind for you as good examples of using this strategy - just more of a lack of belief that having called TO would make any difference. (let me know if I got this wrong) I don't agree with that, but I get it. Now that you've brought it up, I'll definitely keep my eyes open for similar tactics from other coaches because I'm genuinely interested to see if that crops up again.
I would be interested, though, to hear if you would have wanted TCU to do the same thing in that spot -- and if not, why they should have handled it differently
Intriguing points regarding fan base expectations, too. Not sure I agree with the motivation -- I think the pressure on Peterman is higher because he's actually experienced and we expect him to get the details right (he picks up sunflower seeds off the locker room floor, dammit), whereas when Sark, Gilby, Lambo and even Neu got the details wrong, it was upsetting but completely believable given their coaching styles. Might be unfair to Peterman but it is what it is... -
I've never really thought about keeping a mental note of the examples before. Normally you see a game winning FG happen on the last play of the game. The situation that you see come up probably more often is the defense faced with giving up a game winning FG or giving up a TD on purpose to try to get the ball back.
I get the reasoning of why to call the timeout. The reasons are logical. In this particular case, I don't think that there's any reason to prolong the game. Kickoff was going to go out of the end zone. Miles doesn't possess the ability to make the throws necessary for us to get into FG range. I would say that the odds of us finding a way to get a 50 yard attempt off would definitely be less than 5%. It's probably fair to say that if you had a QB that you believed was capable of making those plays to get you in a position you probably have the thought of calling a timeout to give any time on the tip of your mind.
I would say that my biggest problem with the fixation on this being that it's an example that people can point to as something that they would have done differently but the reality is that the impact it had on the game was minimal. Nobody would have said anything about this if the kicker missed the 47 yard FG - far from a sure thing.
TCU had a comparable, but different situation earlier this year in their loss to Baylor. They were at the Baylor 45 yard line with about 1:15 left in the game with the score tied facing a 4th and 3. On one hand, if you go for it and pick it up, you control the rest of the game with a chance to win it or go to OT. On the other hand, your defense was really struggling at that point and giving a short field would have led to a likely loss. You could have argued that even with a punt there that Baylor would have gone 70 yards in a minute to get into FG range. My thought at the time was that TCU should have punted there, put Baylor inside the 10, made them go 70 yards to get into FG range without making a mistake. But also hard for me to criticize a coach for playing to win the game. The last 10 minutes of the 4th quarter of that game may end up costing TCU a chance to play for a title.
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Here's the deal. He should have been using timeouts. And if he did UW would of gotten the ball with around 30 seconds left. And the odds that it would have made a difference was extremely low. But if it's even 1 in a million that's still a chance according to Lloyd Christmas. It wouldn't have mattered in the outcome, but would make Petersen look better in the post game analysis.
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Petersen had the chance to increase the win expectancy of his team and did not take it. Even if the increase is from 15% to 15.5% he needs to make the move. Over the course of a game and season the cumulative impact of those actions adds up. For someone who preaches details this is a detail that he missed. Actions louder than words and all that.
I look forward to LIFPO and see if Petersen has the self reflection to improve himself and his staff in the offseason like James did. Either way it will be interesting. -
Fixed and agreed.whlinder said:Petersen had the chance to increase the win expectancy of his team and did not take it. Even if the increase is from 0% to .015% he needs to make the move. Over the course of a game and season the cumulative impact of those actions adds up. For someone who preaches details this is a detail that he missed. Actions louder than words and all that.
I look forward to LIFPO and see if Petersen has the self reflection to improve himself and his staff in the offseason like James did. Either way it will be interesting. -
Well... peterman said in his presser just now he wouldn't change anything - he let the clock run all the way down because he didn't think the kicker would make it. Clearly he and @Tequilla are in cahoots...
Then shortly after that he said "I guess we could have called timeout with 33 seconds left"
Is he still thinking through what was the right call, or is he just fucking with the media? (My guess is the latter) -
I would venture to guess a lot of people watching were screaming for Petersen to call the timeout. I was at a bar in Kansas City with no other Husky fans around and everyone was amazed he wasn't calling the timeout as the clock ticked down. Not after the fact, but realtime, as the clock ran down we were all yelling at him to call the timeout. It was a no-brainer to call the timeout. Even if you don't think Miles can lead the team back down if he makes the field-goal, there is no reason on earth not to give yourself and your team the opportunity to try. The worst thing that could happen is you fail, but Petersen didn't even give them an opportunity to fail. It was a bad decision. Petersen's claims that he didn't think the Arizona kicker would make the field-goal are bizarre...even if you don't think he makes it, why would you not put your team in a position to win on the offchance that he does make it? While I've been concerned about some things I'm willing to LIPO, but the fact Petersen didn't call the timeout there is eye-opening and concerning. There was no reason to not take the timeout. It was a pretty big mistake, and he should have owned up to it and admitted he should have called the timeout.Tequilla said:
I would say that my biggest problem with the fixation on this being that it's an example that people can point to as something that they would have done differently but the reality is that the impact it had on the game was minimal. Nobody would have said anything about this if the kicker missed the 47 yard FG - far from a sure thing.
