Could Seattle be sellers at the MLB deadline?
Comments
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My guess is they will do the "We are buyers and sellers" thing.
I doubt they are dealing any starting pitcher for prospects though. If any of them are dealt it will be for major league offense. -
I agree, a starting pitcher for offense maybe, might see a reliever or two for prospects, obviously most likely none of the above, just thinking these things might happen…
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They're a middling team. I doubt they do anything of note at the deadline. Maybe they fire Servais.
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I'm all in on sell mode. Burn it down.
Not exactly, but the core they thought they were building around has fizzled and revealed itself to be mediocre. I wouldn't unload all of it, but two positions desperately need to be upgraded and I'd trade from others to make that happen.
First base is obvious. I thought France would be a consistent . 280-.305 type of hitter with 20 homers...Edgar lite basically. Nope. He needs to go. Too bad he's too unathletic as he would be a stellar utility infielder if only he didn't suck at playing infield.
2nd base is obvious.
RF will be a need for next season too as Teoscar is either getting traded or leaving as a FA.
Murphy has pretty damn good value right now in a sellers market. He's too good to trade if you're contending but Seattle is not.
Gilbert, Kirby, and one of Woo and Miller are all untouchable. I'm keeping one of Miller and Woo, but would part with one for the right offer. Gotta be willing to give up something.
I'd package him with Hancock and a lower level prospect to get someone at either first or 2b. -
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Kicked a water cooler lol.dnc said:
I like a guy willing to make sacrifices to blow off a little steam. I can relate. I once kicked the ground after booting a grounder in a men's slow pitch game, aggravating a torn ACL and causing a "bucket handle" meniscus tear which required a scope job to get my mobility back. Felt like a damn genius. -
They should sell. They are not making the playoffs.
The Mariners are good at finding relievers. See what you can get for Sewald, and one of Brash/Munoz. Young, cheap elite strikeout arms in the bullpen are valuable to a lot of playoff teams. Flip Teoscar for whatever we can get. Flip a starter for a bat.
Just get better hitters, preferably with an emphasis on putting the ball in play. We have too many high strikeout players. I’m not sure what the advanced stats say, but good things happen more often when the ball is put in play. The high strikeout guys don’t even walk much either (Suarez the only one that is arguable). -
The worst you can do is to have light hitting guys like France, and this year's Julio, striking out a ton. If you can't hit for power you'd better be getting in base a lot and having consistently good ABs. These guys have lost their fucking minds flailing at breaking balls down and away. France is actually lunging at the plate, from his already crowded stance, in anticipation of sliders low and away. Now he can't hit anything middle in. Has anyone mentioned to him that he's not supposed to hit down and away sliders in the first place? JFC it's pathetic.RoadDawg55 said:They should sell. They are not making the playoffs.
The Mariners are good at finding relievers. See what you can get for Sewald, and one of Brash/Munoz. Young, cheap elite strikeout arms in the bullpen are valuable to a lot of playoff teams. Flip Teoscar for whatever we can get. Flip a starter for a bat.
Just get better hitters, preferably with an emphasis on putting the ball in play. We have too many high strikeout players. I’m not sure what the advanced stats say, but good things happen more often when the ball is put in play. The high strikeout guys don’t even walk much either (Suarez the only one that is arguable).
I'm fine with trading bullpen arms and I'd be willing to trade one starter not named Gilbert or Kirby. They don't need to go crazy though. Keep most of the pitching somehow, upgrade at first and second and get a new right fielder and that would suffice. -
France has been terrible this year, but he isn’t even one of the high strikeout guys I was talking about. Julio, Kelenic, Suarez, and Hernandez are the middle of the order guys with too high of strikeout rates. Like you said, the power and on base skills haven’t been anything special either.chuck said:
The worst you can do is to have light hitting guys like France, and this year's Julio, striking out a ton. If you can't hit for power you'd better be getting in base a lot and having consistently good ABs. These guys have lost their fucking minds flailing at breaking balls down and away. France is actually lunging at the plate, from his already crowded stance, in anticipation of sliders low and away. Now he can't hit anything middle in. Has anyone mentioned to him that he's not supposed to hit down and away sliders in the first place? JFC it's pathetic.RoadDawg55 said:They should sell. They are not making the playoffs.
The Mariners are good at finding relievers. See what you can get for Sewald, and one of Brash/Munoz. Young, cheap elite strikeout arms in the bullpen are valuable to a lot of playoff teams. Flip Teoscar for whatever we can get. Flip a starter for a bat.
Just get better hitters, preferably with an emphasis on putting the ball in play. We have too many high strikeout players. I’m not sure what the advanced stats say, but good things happen more often when the ball is put in play. The high strikeout guys don’t even walk much either (Suarez the only one that is arguable).
I'm fine with trading bullpen arms and I'd be willing to trade one starter not named Gilbert or Kirby. They don't need to go crazy though. Keep most of the pitching somehow, upgrade at first and second and get a new right fielder and that would suffice. -
Normally no, and he's at about 20% on the season, but his last 21 days and especially the last two weeks are ugly. At least the guys you mentioned have had some production, take some walks, and hit for some power when they hit. France is showing that this kind of slump is part of his makeup and it's just not acceptable.RoadDawg55 said:
France has been terrible this year, but he isn’t even one of the high strikeout guys I was talking about. Julio, Kelenic, Suarez, and Hernandez are the middle of the order guys with too high of strikeout rates. Like you said, the power and on base skills haven’t been anything special either.chuck said:
The worst you can do is to have light hitting guys like France, and this year's Julio, striking out a ton. If you can't hit for power you'd better be getting in base a lot and having consistently good ABs. These guys have lost their fucking minds flailing at breaking balls down and away. France is actually lunging at the plate, from his already crowded stance, in anticipation of sliders low and away. Now he can't hit anything middle in. Has anyone mentioned to him that he's not supposed to hit down and away sliders in the first place? JFC it's pathetic.RoadDawg55 said:They should sell. They are not making the playoffs.
The Mariners are good at finding relievers. See what you can get for Sewald, and one of Brash/Munoz. Young, cheap elite strikeout arms in the bullpen are valuable to a lot of playoff teams. Flip Teoscar for whatever we can get. Flip a starter for a bat.
Just get better hitters, preferably with an emphasis on putting the ball in play. We have too many high strikeout players. I’m not sure what the advanced stats say, but good things happen more often when the ball is put in play. The high strikeout guys don’t even walk much either (Suarez the only one that is arguable).
I'm fine with trading bullpen arms and I'd be willing to trade one starter not named Gilbert or Kirby. They don't need to go crazy though. Keep most of the pitching somehow, upgrade at first and second and get a new right fielder and that would suffice.
Maybe I'm just pissy because he's killing my fantasy team.
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Now I think its also really possible that they flip Hernandez at the deadline, i know they are building, I am just not sure they are building around him ~ guess they will see. The other side of it is how likely is it that he wants to resign with the Mariners as his contract runs out ~ I'm thinking that he may very well want a more hitter friendly ballpark.
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There's a lot that has gone wrong for this organization this year but in a lot of ways it's a market over-correction to them probably being better than they should have been the two years prior. The base of this roster is probably a middling 85-88 win roster.chuck said:I'm all in on sell mode. Burn it down.
Not exactly, but the core they thought they were building around has fizzled and revealed itself to be mediocre. I wouldn't unload all of it, but two positions desperately need to be upgraded and I'd trade from others to make that happen.
First base is obvious. I thought France would be a consistent . 280-.305 type of hitter with 20 homers...Edgar lite basically. Nope. He needs to go. Too bad he's too unathletic as he would be a stellar utility infielder if only he didn't suck at playing infield.
2nd base is obvious.
RF will be a need for next season too as Teoscar is either getting traded or leaving as a FA.
Murphy has pretty damn good value right now in a sellers market. He's too good to trade if you're contending but Seattle is not.
Gilbert, Kirby, and one of Woo and Miller are all untouchable. I'm keeping one of Miller and Woo, but would part with one for the right offer. Gotta be willing to give up something.
I'd package him with Hancock and a lower level prospect to get someone at either first or 2b.
If I was the GM I'd break the roster into the following groups:
1) Players that can be part of the starting 9, starting rotation, and top half relievers (going to to close out a game) that you can see pitching deep into October
2) Players (same groups as above) that are good enough to get you into the postseason but probably not good enough to get you deep into October
3) Players that can be supporting players on a postseason team (bottom of the lineup starters at best, back end of rotation, lower half relievers)
4) Players that can be replaced by comparable players fairly easily
When you look at the roster right now though, I'd argue that the balance of group 1 is the rotation + Julio + a couple of arms in the pen ... a decent chunk of the roster falls in 2) and 3) and there's a lot more of 4) on the roster than what you'd want to believe. What's very apparent though is that the offense is not good enough (neither is the approach but that's another discussion) ...
I don't see a ton of trade value for this roster at the deadline:
Sewald has the most value in my mind and is probably a prime trade candidate in that he's 33, has 1 more arbitration year before free agency (and a decent raise coming in that arbitration), and probably not a candidate to get extended as him going to market to get the most term/money combo as he can get is probably in his best interest. The Mariners should definitely be targeting a bat back in any deal (or young power pen arm) ... but the biggest thing that the Mariners have to realize is that trading Sewald creates a big gap in their pen for next season to replace. Munoz may be ready to take on being a closer but then you have to backfill Munoz ... and I don't see anybody on the roster able to do that right now.
Teoscar may be able to get you a mid-level prospect but I just don't see a huge market for him given that he's a league average bat leading the league in strikeouts. Maybe you could flip him to someone like Miami that could probably use his power and has a deep enough farm system or Milwaukee who could desperately use a competent OF bat (not a great farm system though). I don't see any way that you extend him or even give him a qualifying offer for draft pick compensation ... so get whatever you can on him.
France you are 100% selling low on if you sell him now and what I have no clue on is whether or not he's playing through an injury or not ... that said we're basically close to a calendar year that his play has basically sucked. He's got 2 more arbitration years left and with the way this year is going I don't think you're looking at him having a huge winning case for a big raise this coming offseason. To me he's more of an offseason trade candidate and/or non-tender if things go really south next year. But the track record is there to think that he can be part of at least a piece to a playoff team ... and there aren't a lot of those on the roster under club control.
I don't know what kind of value that you're going to find for a backup catcher like Tom Murphy in the trade market or what kind of legit prospect that you get other than the most flier of fliers. That said, given where Murphy is in his career, I'd give him the opportunity to join a contender if possible.
Anybody else on the offensive side I'd definitely listen if somebody came calling outside of the obvious candidates ...
Starting pitching I wouldn't trade anybody until the offseason and having a better understanding of what your roster looks like (i.e. can you pull off the Shohei miracle) ... but there's enough SP depth in the organization that you can definitely look at moving somebody. -
Let's get this board back on track.
The Ms are a boring as fuck, fringe playoff team with a core that's proving, after a couple of years of high hopes, to not be the answer.
Fuck the Ms.
Back to regular programming. -
Well the mariners needed a left fielder and a 2nd baseman [both of which started tonight] and the cost was an above average closer. One good prospect for a guy they felt they could replace on the roster… a micro move but a positive one in response to the 2 teams above them that have the firepower to go for the World Series this year. Obviously the Mariners are nowhere near that.chuck said:Let's get this board back on track.
The Ms are a boring as fuck, fringe playoff team with a core that's proving, after a couple of years of high hopes, to not be the answer.
Fuck the Ms.
Back to regular programming.
I think its going to be more of the same until the Mariners finally decide in 2035 to move in the fences so that big time hitters will decide to come to Seattle instead of avoiding us like the plague, and existing players that we do develop opt out and leave when they become free agents.
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Man I completely disagree on where they could have ended up. They aren't far away as it is. Best record in MLB in July. One of the best rotations in baseball. A top five bullpen (before selling on Sewald). The offense has been adequate, but it could have easily gotten better at a miniscule cost.TheRoarOfTheCrowd said:
Well the mariners needed a left fielder and a 2nd baseman [both of which started tonight] and the cost was an above average closer. One good prospect for a guy they felt they could replace on the roster… a micro move but a positive one in response to the 2 teams above them that have the firepower to go for the World Series this year. Obviously the Mariners are nowhere near that.chuck said:Let's get this board back on track.
The Ms are a boring as fuck, fringe playoff team with a core that's proving, after a couple of years of high hopes, to not be the answer.
Fuck the Ms.
Back to regular programming.
I think its going to be more of the same until the Mariners finally decide in 2035 to move in the fences so that big time hitters will decide to come to Seattle instead of avoiding us like the plague, and existing players that we do develop opt out and leave when they become free agents.
They got a guy slightly better than Wong and a prospect with 15 games of MLB service time. That was not a very aggressive way to address the needs you mentioned. It was a non-attempt to get better now. You weakened your bullpen to play roulette on a guy having a horrible year and one who has 15 games of bad hitting for an MLB track record.
Punting in this season given where they were only makes sense in bizarro world. You can't deny that they did that when solid bats on the market were going for middling prospects. They gave up on the season or they're really not smart. I actually think they're smart but fuck them for giving up on the season. They expect people to keep showing up to watch games with that approach? -
They just need an Edgar and a Griffey Jr. in the lineup and they'll be on their way to the playoffs!
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They are in the dreaded FYFMFE slot...too close to sell, not close enough (or deep enough) to buy. When they meet with Ohtani, Stanton's first words better be "Welcome, partner"...
Dip could have made a bigger splash, but that splash would be Kirby and / or Gilbert exiting...
The saying goes "You trade arms for bats, and you trade bats for arms"...Ray getting hurt killed their chances for a big move with one of those guys. You would go from losing 3-2 to losing 7-6... -
There were plenty of league average or slightly better hitters going for mid tier prospects, which the Ms system is full of. They didn't need a splash but they should've tried something at least slightly aggressive. Wong and vacant (outfield/1b/dh) should have been easy to upgrade, but they didn't appear willing to alter the formula to make sure they did that.Fishpo31 said:They are in the dreaded FYFMFE slot...too close to sell, not close enough (or deep enough) to buy. When they meet with Ohtani, Stanton's first words better be "Welcome, partner"...
Dip could have made a bigger splash, but that splash would be Kirby and / or Gilbert exiting...
The saying goes "You trade arms for bats, and you trade bats for arms"...Ray getting hurt killed their chances for a big move with one of those guys. You would go from losing 3-2 to losing 7-6... -
I like getting Canzone better than you do. He’s been a 4A player so far, but he has hit really well in the minors. He definitely fills a need if he pans out. I think he will eventually hit in the majors. He has too good of a minor league track record.chuck said:
There were plenty of league average or slightly better hitters going for mid tier prospects, which the Ms system is full of. They didn't need a splash but they should've tried something at least slightly aggressive. Wong and vacant (outfield/1b/dh) should have been easy to upgrade, but they didn't appear willing to alter the formula to make sure they did that.Fishpo31 said:They are in the dreaded FYFMFE slot...too close to sell, not close enough (or deep enough) to buy. When they meet with Ohtani, Stanton's first words better be "Welcome, partner"...
Dip could have made a bigger splash, but that splash would be Kirby and / or Gilbert exiting...
The saying goes "You trade arms for bats, and you trade bats for arms"...Ray getting hurt killed their chances for a big move with one of those guys. You would go from losing 3-2 to losing 7-6...
I can’t criticize the M’s for the Sewald trade. Bliss is a decent prospect and another body to throw at 2B. This is a fairly heavy return for a good, but not great reliever. -
That is what I think as well... the glaring issue IMO is the seeming inability to draft and then coach up position players in our minor league system to become above average hitters in our less forgiving above average major league dimensions ballpark.
This has seemed to be the case for an extended period and curing this appears to be the intermediate solution to the malaise at the major league level. This years draft seems like a step in the right direction, and paying top dollar for international draft players can also be a short cut to augment and encourage upper level established players to sign with Seattle as free agents ~ currently a real stumbling block for talent acquisition. Obviously improving via free agent signings and trades can be done ~ Pat Gillick did it back in the day but the truth is Seattle will have to establish the reputation of a team committed to a large payroll and sustained efforts to field a sizeable mix of star players that are being paid historic sums. -
I'm really not down on the trade. I'm down on the fact that it most likely made the team worse for the rest of this season and they didn't make any other moves to compensate. That's not a sure thing, but it's most likely given what Rojas has done in 2023 and the fact that Canzone is 17 games into his career.RoadDawg55 said:
I like getting Canzone better than you do. He’s been a 4A player so far, but he has hit really well in the minors. He definitely fills a need if he pans out. I think he will eventually hit in the majors. He has too good of a minor league track record.chuck said:
There were plenty of league average or slightly better hitters going for mid tier prospects, which the Ms system is full of. They didn't need a splash but they should've tried something at least slightly aggressive. Wong and vacant (outfield/1b/dh) should have been easy to upgrade, but they didn't appear willing to alter the formula to make sure they did that.Fishpo31 said:They are in the dreaded FYFMFE slot...too close to sell, not close enough (or deep enough) to buy. When they meet with Ohtani, Stanton's first words better be "Welcome, partner"...
Dip could have made a bigger splash, but that splash would be Kirby and / or Gilbert exiting...
The saying goes "You trade arms for bats, and you trade bats for arms"...Ray getting hurt killed their chances for a big move with one of those guys. You would go from losing 3-2 to losing 7-6...
I can’t criticize the M’s for the Sewald trade. Bliss is a decent prospect and another body to throw at 2B. This is a fairly heavy return for a good, but not great reliever.
This season isn't over yet. They should have tried to win now (they didn't) and add some help for next year (I agree that they did). -
They did fail to pursue and land the one available trade player [Juan Soto] with a controllable contract that could have stepped in and changed the fortunes of the club.. obviously it was going to take a lot of trade capital to get it done, but I think they missed a rare opportunity leading up to the trade deadline by failing to pull the trigger to transact.
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I bet Dipoto called on him, and the first word out of Preller’s mouth started with a G, as in George…if Ray is healthy, I would listen, and push Gilbert, but he isn’t. Soto is a no-doubter upgrade, and while he isn’t a FA until 24, he’s making 23MM, and you may very well be trading a future ace for a 1.5 year rental…Seattle will alway be attractive for pitchers, and they will always have to overpay for hitters, for obvious reasons…TheRoarOfTheCrowd said:They did fail to pursue and land the one available trade player [Juan Soto] with a controllable contract that could have stepped in and changed the fortunes of the club.. obviously it was going to take a lot of trade capital to get it done, but I think they missed a rare opportunity leading up to the trade deadline by failing to pull the trigger to transact.
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You and I disagree on how much they needed to be a contender. I'm not even sure they're not one now in spite of all of my bitching. This series against the Angels could finally be the one that tios the scales one way or the other...kind of late to be helpful.TheRoarOfTheCrowd said:They did fail to pursue and land the one available trade player [Juan Soto] with a controllable contract that could have stepped in and changed the fortunes of the club.. obviously it was going to take a lot of trade capital to get it done, but I think they missed a rare opportunity leading up to the trade deadline by failing to pull the trigger to transact.
We agree on most of the rest. And @RoadDawg55 misunderstood me regarding the guys they got in the trade. I was too busy being a nega to say what I really thought about them. I do like them a lot, even Rojas. I just don't think they were brought in to help this year. Bliss is an interesting guy with surprising potential for a little dude and is another body to throw at the middle infield problem. -
Was Soto available? The Padres didn’t even trade Snell. They are going for it and didn’t sell.TheRoarOfTheCrowd said:They did fail to pursue and land the one available trade player [Juan Soto] with a controllable contract that could have stepped in and changed the fortunes of the club.. obviously it was going to take a lot of trade capital to get it done, but I think they missed a rare opportunity leading up to the trade deadline by failing to pull the trigger to transact.
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I think the Mariners got better this year with the trade. Even one solid everyday player is more valuable than a good reliever. Almost anyone, even Rojas would be an upgrade at 2B and Canzone could become a big piece. Both could end up being valuable players down the stretch.chuck said:
You and I disagree on how much they needed to be a contender. I'm not even sure they're not one now in spite of all of my bitching. This series against the Angels could finally be the one that tios the scales one way or the other...kind of late to be helpful.TheRoarOfTheCrowd said:They did fail to pursue and land the one available trade player [Juan Soto] with a controllable contract that could have stepped in and changed the fortunes of the club.. obviously it was going to take a lot of trade capital to get it done, but I think they missed a rare opportunity leading up to the trade deadline by failing to pull the trigger to transact.
We agree on most of the rest. And @RoadDawg55 misunderstood me regarding the guys they got in the trade. I was too busy being a nega to say what I really thought about them. I do like them a lot, even Rojas. I just don't think they were brought in to help this year. Bliss is an interesting guy with surprising potential for a little dude and is another body to throw at the middle infield problem.
We have other good relievers and Sewald is replaceable. I can’t believe we got this much in a return. I’m not sure what splash move was available and those often don’t work out anyways. The Mariners were unlikely to make the playoffs before the deadline and it’s still unlikely.
