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Nord Stream pipeline leaks raise suspicions of sabotage

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    FireCohenFireCohen Member Posts: 21,823
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    who gives a fuck
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    SwisherSweetboySwisherSweetboy Member Posts: 563
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    I like to not have Russian nukes raining down on my city. But that's just me.

    $80 billion US dollars can buy a lot of private mercenaries and give us plausible deniability.
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    jecorneljecornel Member Posts: 9,599
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    It matters.
    FireCohen said:

    who gives a fuck

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    DerekJohnsonDerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 60,094
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    FireCohen said:

    who gives a fuck


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    SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 31,920
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    It's only an act of war against a nuclear power. No big deal. And it's not as if we aren't being led by a competent leader.

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    Dude61Dude61 Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,227
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    Swaye's Wigwam
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    DoogieMcDoogersonDoogieMcDoogerson Member Posts: 2,482
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    Any guesses on what piece of US infrastructure Russia will attack in retaliation?

    We should start a HH pool like the dead pool that we? had before.

    I'll start:
    One of the top 10 items in this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_power_stations_in_the_United_States
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    MelloDawgMelloDawg Member Posts: 6,128
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    Any guesses on what piece of US infrastructure Russia will attack in retaliation?

    We should start a HH pool like the dead pool that we? had before.

    I'll start:
    One of the top 10 items in this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_power_stations_in_the_United_States

    In retaliation for what?
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    KaepskneeKaepsknee Member Posts: 14,750
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    FireCohen said:

    who gives a fuck

    It’s only the price to heat your home and water here for tens of millions of people here on out.

    You’re right. No big deal.
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    FireCohenFireCohen Member Posts: 21,823
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    Nobody ever accused @FireCohen or @MelloDawg of being big picture thinkers.

    Honestly do we really give a fuck what is going on that side of the world?
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    DoogieMcDoogersonDoogieMcDoogerson Member Posts: 2,482
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    FireCohen said:

    Nobody ever accused @FireCohen or @MelloDawg of being big picture thinkers.

    Honestly do we really give a fuck what is going on that side of the world?
    I feel like you're trolling here. It is pretty simple. If the US damaged the pipelines, this is a hostile act against key Russian infrastructure. Kind of a big deal. What happens next would likely impact you.
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    PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 41,866
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    edited September 2022
    FireCohen said:

    Nobody ever accused @FireCohen or @MelloDawg of being big picture thinkers.

    Honestly do we really give a fuck what is going on that side of the world?
    You're almost correct here.

    We really shouldn't give all that many fucks on Russia/Ukraine. Or any other endless war the MIC dreams up.

    Annex Mexico, drive on down and pick up Venezuela and uber hot chicks and call it good. Drill baby drill. Look for the Made in Mexico/Venezuela/America label on all products.

    The browns can turn out quality goods. Let it rip.

    Fuck yeah.



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    WestlinnDuckWestlinnDuck Member Posts: 13,934
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    One of the better explanations. Corrupt Russian maintenance.

    https://thelawdogfiles.com/2022/09/nordstream.html

    NORDSTREAM

    *crosses self*

    “Hail Mary, full of grace …”

    Ok, the Nord pipeline incidents.

    Sigh. I shouldn’t do this, but …

    I call them “incidents” for a reason. I grew up in overseas oilfields. I try to, by training, observe everything from as objectively neutral a viewpoint as possible.

    In my experience when anything involving energy-industry hydrocarbons explodes … well, sabotage isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. And honestly, when it comes to a pipeline running natural gas under Russian (non)maintenance, an explosion means that it’s Tuesday. Or Friday. Or another day of the week ending in “y”.

    “But, LawDog,” I hear you say, “It was multiple explosions!”

    Yes, 17 hours apart. No military is going to arrange for two pipes in the same general area to be destroyed 17 hours apart. Not without some Spec Ops guy having a fit of apoplexy. One pipe goes up in a busy shipping lane, in a busy sea, and everyone takes notice. Then you wait 17 hours to do the second — with 17 hours for people to show up and catch you running dirty? Nah, not buying it.

    The Nord pipelines weren’t in use. To me, that means it’s time for maintenance! Hard to maintain pipes when product is flowing.

    Pipelines running methane, under saltwater, require PMCS* quicker than you’d think, and more often than you’d believe.

    I would bet a cup of coffee that any of the required weekly and monthly checks and services since the Russians took over have been pencil-whipped. (See Andreev Bay 1982.)

    They officially shut it down in July of 2020 for maintenance, and had cornbread hell getting it back on-line, and “issues” with maintaining flow throughout the next year; shut it down again in July of 2021, with bigger “issues” — we say “issues” because the Russians won’t explain what these issues were — and even more problems, including unexplained, major disruptions in gas flow in Dec21/Jan22; Feb 22; and April 22.

    Yeah, there’s problems with those lines. And these are the same folks that PMCS’d Chernobyl.

    So. They’ve got pipelines with issues that are currently pressurised (with highly flammable, if not outright explosive, natural gas/methane), but not moving product. It’s time to find out what those issues are.

    And they blew up. My shocked face, let me show you it. Next time, tell Sergei to put out the cigarette before pulling a pressure test.

    Is there a possibility of sabotage? Yeah. Especially in the current world situation — but folks thought the Kursk went down because of hostile actions, too.

    So, yes, hostile actions are a possibility, but mass amounts of explosive hydrocarbon gas + 300 feet down under salt water + shoddy Russian maintenance = “Nobody could have possibly seen this coming”, and yet another entry into the extensive Wikipedia page on “Soviet/Russian disasters”.

    “But what issues could happen in an undersea pipeline that could cause ruptures?”

    Oh, my sweet summer child. Many, many, many. You might go far as to ask, “What issues won’t cause a rupture in an undersea pipeline?” — It’d be easier to list.

    However, in this case involving a natural gas pipeline under the pressure of 300 to 360 feet (8 atmospheres to 10 atm.) of water, I’d like you to turn your eyes towards a fun little quirk of nature called “methane hydrates”.

    Well, actually, I’d like you to meditate upon “hydrate plug”, but give me a moment.

    Under certain circumstances of pressure, temperature, and water presence natural gas/methane will form solid hydrates, with concomitant amounts of fun.

    For the Chinese definition of fun, anyway.

    Keeping hydrates from forming is a constant battle, requiring vigilance, expertise, diligence, and constant water removal. If any of these things slack at any time — you’re getting hydrate formation.

    The presence of solid hydrates in a pipeline can cause flow issues (causing cracks), destabilize the pipe itself (more cracks), and cause fires (bad. Very Bad), but the big issue (pun intended) is when you form enough hydrates that it blocks the pipe entirely (see: Hydrate plug, above).

    A hydrate plug is one massive pain in the tuchkiss to remove, and removal of said hydrate plugs is not a task to be undertaken by idiots, rank amateurs, morons, the terminally unlucky, or stupid people.

    The Recommended Best Practice to clear a hydrate plug is a vvveeerryyy slllooowww depressurisation from BOTH ENDS, SIMULTANEOUSLY.

    How slowly, you ask? For a pipeline the size of Nordstream we’re talking weeks.

    As the line reaches local atmospheric pressure heat is transferred to the plug from the environment, and the plug begins to melt, starting at the plug/wall interface.

    However, if you are a national gas company with institutional paranoia, a Nationalised aversion to looking weak or asking for help, and a Good Idea Fairy fueled by vodka — well, you can depressurise the pipe from one end.

    Doing so from one end does happen, but carrying it out requires a lot of very experienced people, luck (no, more than that), and the favour of multiple gods to pull off.

    If the Gods blink, or Jobu has a particular case of the hips at you, what generally happens is the hydrate plug will still melt at the plug/wall junction, but when it does, the pressurised side will launch the plug (five feet in diametre, and the same density as water ice) at almost 200 miles an hour down the pipe towards the depressurised side.

    When this plug bullet hits a bend in the pipe — well, it doesn’t stop, nor does it change direction easily. It’s going to make a hole.

    What’s even more fun is when somebody figures out what’s happening and slams the valves closed ahead of that fast-moving plug. It’s called the Diesel Effect — for those of you a little shaky on your High School physics, here’s an interesting video of the Diesel Effect.

    Done watching? Good.

    Now, I want you to imagine that the clear tube in the video is a gas pipeline. The piston part and the hand is a 200-pound chunk of methane hydrate; the force being applied by a human arm is being applied by that 200-pound chunk of hydrate moving at 130 miles per hour. And the cotton wool is actually just a section of pipe full of lovely, flammable natural gas.

    Yeah. Boom. Big bada-boom.

    If you’re lucky, the wall of the pipe will rupture before the ignition point … for various values of ‘lucky’.

    Another fun thing that occurs to usually-intelligent people is to “gently warm the area of pipe where the plug is”.

    Don’t do this. Methane hydrates disassociate really, really rapidly in the presence of heat. A pocket of gas will form somewhere inside the plug, next to the pipe wall, and the massive, localised pressure increase will rupture the pipe, spilling vapourised natural gas all over your heat source. (See “Bada-boom, above.)
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    RatherBeBrewingRatherBeBrewing Member Posts: 1,557
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    The Russians did it. Act of god, force majeure, the sacred Gazprom cow has been untouchable but if they ever restart energy sales in the future they don’t want to pay any penalties.

    They had the pressure in it down to almost nil for weeks, they cut the main overland route though Ukraine. Germany had already filled their reserves, and Putin is in his end game and he wanted to make sure the “West” understands - since half of the EU are a particularly Pollyanna type of optimistic dimwits.

    Putin had his most unhinged moment to date, in his annexation ceremony today. Busiest week since February. Trying to mobilize a million Russians, while a third of a million men or more have fled in just one week. It’s beyond belief, but the Ukrainians have turned his army into cat food. I never thought it would happen, but the only way they might be able to stop this is with a small nuke and see what the reaction is.
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    BleachedAnusDawgBleachedAnusDawg Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 10,526
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    The Russians did it. Act of god, force majeure, the sacred Gazprom cow has been untouchable but if they ever restart energy sales in the future they don’t want to pay any penalties.

    They had the pressure in it down to almost nil for weeks, they cut the main overland route though Ukraine. Germany had already filled their reserves, and Putin is in his end game and he wanted to make sure the “West” understands - since half of the EU are a particularly Pollyanna type of optimistic dimwits.

    Putin had his most unhinged moment to date, in his annexation ceremony today. Busiest week since February. Trying to mobilize a million Russians, while a third of a million men or more have fled in just one week. It’s beyond belief, but the Ukrainians have turned his army into cat food. I never thought it would happen, but the only way they might be able to stop this is with a small nuke and see what the reaction is.

    There should be a negotiated truce to hold real elections in the disputed areas in the East. If they want to leave to Russia (since they're all Russian) let them and end the war. The fact that the Biden Admin actively told Ukraine not to negotiate tells you all you need to know about this situation.
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    PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 41,866
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    edited October 2022

    The Russians did it. Act of god, force majeure, the sacred Gazprom cow has been untouchable but if they ever restart energy sales in the future they don’t want to pay any penalties.

    They had the pressure in it down to almost nil for weeks, they cut the main overland route though Ukraine. Germany had already filled their reserves, and Putin is in his end game and he wanted to make sure the “West” understands - since half of the EU are a particularly Pollyanna type of optimistic dimwits.

    Putin had his most unhinged moment to date, in his annexation ceremony today. Busiest week since February. Trying to mobilize a million Russians, while a third of a million men or more have fled in just one week. It’s beyond belief, but the Ukrainians have turned his army into cat food. I never thought it would happen, but the only way they might be able to stop this is with a small nuke and see what the reaction is.

    Penalties for what? Restarting their own gas line? To sell a product that the Euros needs so they don't freeze to death or go broke trying?

    Failure to maintain the pipeline which cause the explosion makes sense. The Russians have zero motivation otherwise to blow up their own cash cow.



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    RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 101,426
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    Incompetence is always an option and most likely

    Putin is getting rich off the retardation of the Greta countries now desperate to keep warm. Why cut it off?

    Idiots
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