Russian Generals dropping like flies
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The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.RatherBeBrewing said:
If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that. -
I was going to go with one of usual replies, which are much like my penis; too long for many and not intended for you. Instead I’ll try to be like the underwear I can’t wear, brief. Or to the extent that I can... Let’s just be grateful I’m not picking apart your suboptimal historical analogies or their incorrect details.Sledog said:
The founders were all well off white guys who didn't have to have a revolution. They risked everything and had large bounties oin their head. Freedom isn't free and it is not won by cowering in corners. The other guy doesn't want to die for his dictator. Make them pay in blood. Sitting around waiting to be rounded up and executed or shipped to a Gulag to be worked and starved to death isn't attractive to me. Remember that a few Jews with guns held the NAZI's out of the Warsaw ghetto for months because the soldiers were afraid of being shot.RatherBeBrewing said:
If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that.
You have no idea how you would truly react or behave in any of those situations unless you have been in them previously.
If it helps you to imagine that you’ll fight to the death for your freedom, even in a scenario where you don’t know your freedom or life are in danger, then that’s great. Let’s be thankful we live in a country where that’s unlikely to ever be tested the way that Ukraine is seeing, and have compassion for those that are less fortunate in that regard.
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It doesn't take much training to defensively level the playing field combined with force multipliers like local knowledge of terrain.RatherBeBrewing said:
If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that.
Combine that with the numbers game of what it takes to raise offensive spec ops teams vs a reserves militia and things start getting uncomfortably even quickly.
There's a reason even the US lost to a bunch of goat fuckers.
That's not some red dawn Rambo fantasy, it's just the reality that armed populations are hard to oppress. -
It just means more playing at home.UW_Doog_Bot said:
It doesn't take much training to defensively level the playing field combined with force multipliers like local knowledge of terrain.RatherBeBrewing said:
If a band of catalytic converter stealing tweakers has invaded, then yeah. If an elite VDV unit invaded then that doesn’t accomplish much beyond guaranteeing a more torturous death for anyone around you. I’ll agree that it’s better than dying while doing nothing. It just seems that people think they’re Rambo, when the reality is that civilians are basically helpless in this scenario.WestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
Let’s say they killed ~10% of civilians in this town. What do you think would happen if they got to your house and you managed to empty a 30 round magazine into their detachment? The subsequent houses wouldn’t be treated as nicely, is my guess. You got to die on your own terms, in a blaze of glory. Everyone they encounter after you gets automatically slaughtered because they’re not going to risk a repeat. Those are rhetorical questions and something for an ethics class.
I’m named for a great-grandfather who was executed by the Germans for being a partisan. He did what he did knowing the German policy was to kill some number of civilians as retribution for every Nazi soldier killed by the partisans or every act of sabotage. The residents supported the partisans while being aware of the consequences. I’m fucking glad I don’t have to make choices like that.
Combine that with the numbers game of what it takes to raise offensive spec ops teams vs a reserves militia and things start getting uncomfortably even quickly.
There's a reason even the US lost to a bunch of goat fuckers.
That's not some red dawn Rambo fantasy, it's just the reality that armed populations are hard to oppress.
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West Linn tuff. Obviously too pour to live in LOWestlinnDuck said:
If infantry is going house to house rounding up civilians to rape and zip tie and slaughter then a AR-15 would be pretty handy. I'd rather be shot in a fire fight than be raped to death. But that's just me and plenty of other Americans.RatherBeBrewing said:
I don’t think my guns would help me against a Russian battalion tactical group. With my rifle I could probably take out a fair number of red coats before they could reload their smooth bore muskets for a second volley, but a T-72 tank might be another matter.WestlinnDuck said:
It's almost like the American founders with the 2A had a plan other than being slaughtered and raped.RatherBeBrewing said:War crime update: the scale is unfathomable. Russians never expected to retreat from the occupied areas. Western media holds back the worst of it, and the brutality is everything that was expected and then some. Makes the Yugoslav wars seem like a miniature version with restraint. In the last 24 hours 400+ civilian corpses found just between two liberated suburban towns by Kyiv with a combined prewar population of ~60,000.
Mass graves, people with their hands tied and shot, people hiding in basements blown up with hand grenades or set in fire, children dead from bleeding caused by gang rapes, thousands of women subjected to sexual violence, stomach turning torture, people killed just for fun, civil leaders and officials slaughtered with their families. Old people saying that the German blitzkrieg and occupation was nowhere near this horrific.
Human Rights Watch is fairly mild, but I figure for the gentle American consumer this is more appropriate versus other sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/04/03/ukraine-apparent-war-crimes-russia-controlled-areas
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I hate to besmirch the two twitter accounts that mirror the Russian governments stance on everything. Especially since the one that slips up and uses Russian language syntax every now then was just created last month, but -HoustonHusky said:
A droplet of water on a windshield is not a moving arm: https://mobile.twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1510641101643919368
The other tweet doesn’t have any dead bodies because it’s a different street, in another part of the same town. As seen in the video posted at the link. It’s the English language version, and there are plenty of other dead bodies they do see: https://web.archive.org/web/20220402185448/https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html
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I think the broader point is it's hard to figure out what the fuck is going on over there to the casual observer because of all the disinformation campaigns. It would help a great deal if I could read signs and such. I trust the Ukranians more than the Russians but not by much. I like the Ukrainians a whole hell of a lot more than the Russians so I WANT to believe them. I was reading last night that some international organizations on the ground were reporting atrocities, so I assume with pretty decent certainty some seriously bad war crime type shit has gone on.RatherBeBrewing said:
I hate to besmirch the two twitter accounts that mirror the Russian governments stance on everything. Especially since the one that slips up and uses Russian language syntax every now then was just created last month, but -HoustonHusky said:
A droplet of water on a windshield is not a moving arm: https://mobile.twitter.com/AuroraIntel/status/1510641101643919368
The other tweet doesn’t have any dead bodies because it’s a different street, in another part of the same town. As seen in the video posted at the link. It’s the English language version, and there are plenty of other dead bodies they do see: https://web.archive.org/web/20220402185448/https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html -
Neither the Russians nor the Ukraineans are telling the truth. It’s a propaganda war.
And they're both doing bad shit.
We only see what we're allowed to see.
