Undocumented Workers?
Comments
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We already annexed half of it.PurpleJ said:Annex Mexico
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Manifest Destiny bitches!Fire_Marshall_Bill said:
We already annexed half of it.PurpleJ said:Annex Mexico
#finish
Good point, though. There was also a movement to take all of Mexico at the time, and they argued that it would bring peace and stability in the region in the future. I'd say that's a pretty relevant idea still today. -
Mike's take on this is dead-on. Less than US minimum wage is still way better than what a lot of these folks have to deal with in Latin America. That leaves aside the whole drug war aspect - but still.
Employers benefit because they get access to a labor force which is pretty highly productive and cheap.
If the US government wanted to stop illegal immigration in its tracks, they would go after employers, not workers. Employers would quit hiring illegals right away - and it is far easier to track down employee records than patrol 4,000 miles of empty desert between San Diego and Brownsville.
But the system works, and feeds the outrage machines in both parties.
And oh, by the way, we also act as a pressure valve on Mexico, since they are able to export excess labor capacity and get significant revenue wired back home which helps their economy.
Now, if you're worried about the eventual Mexicanization of the Southwest, well... moose out front shoulda told ya, but we just rented that land from the Mexicans and they're hell-bent on getting it back, not through conquest but through birthrates.
Demography is destiny. -
Illegal immigrants pay into social security, but cannot draw from it, which helps fund the shortage it currently has. If illegal immigrants become citizens, what's to prevent them from collecting from it, and possibly collecting from past work? If we remove all illegal immigrants then social security loses the additional funding necessary to keep social security afloat. This is why the government pretends there is a problem, because most Americans are disillusioned into thinking there is a problem when in fact it's a necessity. The Government knows this, so they say one thing but do nothing. HTHoregonblitzkrieg said:
Links or this is just your opinion. I'd like to know why this shit is good for the US. Not buying it.MikeDamone said:Illegal immigration is good for the immigrants and the U.S. ...as long as it remains illegal.
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We're going to spend money regardless, at least $40 billion on border security in the near-term but will that fix the problem over the medium / long-term? I don't know the answer but I want illegals who are criminals not needing to be deported 6 times before they kill someone.
Or do we work with Mexico on reforming their country (Pena Nieto has already reformed Pemex and is working on others but probably won't go far enough)?
Or do we put pressure on Mexico to secure their southern boarder more so that Central Americans fleeing their shit countries (usually run by Socialists) can't pass through Mexico on the way here?
Or do we do some combo of all of them or most of them?
Frankly, my concern is that so many immigrants become legal and / or have kids who are automatically legal and then they vote for the party that promises them the most goodies from the Treasury (typically the Democratic Party). That could turn us into a one-party nation with an ever increasing budget, higher taxes, and less freedom FROM government.oregonblitzkrieg said:
We can? It's not like we're saddled with trillions of dollars of debt. Taxpayers will be happy to flush billions of their own money down the toilet trying to improve shithole countries and gain nothing in return. Of course that money will be used as it was intended, it won't be siphoned off by corrupt politicians in those countries.HFNY said:I just read that we need another $40 billion for the border. That's expensive.
I'm sure we could chip in some billions while sending advisors to get their own countries in order but our lead-from-behind President is too worried to ask more of Latinos because of the mid-terms coming up and it's easier for him to pander as usual. Maybe he will get some balls when there are no more elections as he is the de-facto head of the Democratic Party.greenblood said:
If you think dealing with an influx of new occupants is expensive, have you even looked at how much it would cost to build a third world country's economy that's nearly the same size as us? Now try and do that, while we are currently dealing with a devaluing dollar, and a shrinking middle class.HFNY said:Neither was the Marshall Plan but it was the right thing to do. Some of the countries to our south are shit-shows and preventative actions are usually better than addressing it belatedly on our own soil. It's already going to cost us a few billion just to deal with this surge of illegal kids from Central America.
oregonblitzkrieg said:
Disagree. This is not our responsibility. Why don't we try making this country more desirable for our own citizens before we meddle in the affairs of other countries?HFNY said:Some good points and I simply want a bipartisan solution of addressing the border security while figuring out how to help some of these countries become more desirable so that their citizens actually stay in them unless they want to follow the proper avenue towards becoming legal residents (and eventually American citizens).
greenblood said:I hate the word undocumented workers. The only accepted terms are illegal aliens or illegal occupants. Undocumented workers is a term people like OZONE created to cope with their guilt.
Also, I agree with Damone. I really don't care, some illegal occupants are good and mind their own damn business, while some are bad. Water is wet.
Illegal occupants are what is keeping social security afloat right now, and as long as that is the case, the left will continue to act like they want to provide mass citizenship to illegals but will never grant it. Same lipstick, different pig. -
But how is Mexico a bad country?
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Up vote went to awesome after reading that bold paragraph.AZDuck said:Mike's take on this is dead-on. Less than US minimum wage is still way better than what a lot of these folks have to deal with in Latin America. That leaves aside the whole drug war aspect - but still.
Employers benefit because they get access to a labor force which is pretty highly productive and cheap.
If the US government wanted to stop illegal immigration in its tracks, they would go after employers, not workers. Employers would quit hiring illegals right away - and it is far easier to track down employee records than patrol 4,000 miles of empty desert between San Diego and Brownsville.
But the system works, and feeds the outrage machines in both parties.
And oh, by the way, we also act as a pressure valve on Mexico, since they are able to export excess labor capacity and get significant revenue wired back home which helps their economy.
Now, if you're worried about the eventual Mexicanization of the Southwest, well... moose out front shoulda told ya, but we just rented that land from the Mexicans and they're hell-bent on getting it back, not through conquest but through birthrates.
Demography is destiny. -
They can take their businesses to fucking China as far as I give a shit about them. Let other companies that hire Americans take their place.AZDuck said:
Employers benefit because they get access to a labor force which is pretty highly productive and cheap. -
This. It's exactly what Oscuma wants. Don't be surprised when he unilaterally legalizes 5 million of them.HFNY said:
Frankly, my concern is that so many immigrants become legal and / or have kids who are automatically legal and then they vote for the party that promises them the most goodies from the Treasury (typically the Democratic Party). That could turn us into a one-party nation with an ever increasing budget, higher taxes, and less freedom FROM government.oregonblitzkrieg said:
We can? It's not like we're saddled with trillions of dollars of debt. Taxpayers will be happy to flush billions of their own money down the toilet trying to improve shithole countries and gain nothing in return. Of course that money will be used as it was intended, it won't be siphoned off by corrupt politicians in those countries.HFNY said:I just read that we need another $40 billion for the border. That's expensive.
I'm sure we could chip in some billions while sending advisors to get their own countries in order but our lead-from-behind President is too worried to ask more of Latinos because of the mid-terms coming up and it's easier for him to pander as usual. Maybe he will get some balls when there are no more elections as he is the de-facto head of the Democratic Party.greenblood said:
If you think dealing with an influx of new occupants is expensive, have you even looked at how much it would cost to build a third world country's economy that's nearly the same size as us? Now try and do that, while we are currently dealing with a devaluing dollar, and a shrinking middle class.HFNY said:Neither was the Marshall Plan but it was the right thing to do. Some of the countries to our south are shit-shows and preventative actions are usually better than addressing it belatedly on our own soil. It's already going to cost us a few billion just to deal with this surge of illegal kids from Central America.
oregonblitzkrieg said:
Disagree. This is not our responsibility. Why don't we try making this country more desirable for our own citizens before we meddle in the affairs of other countries?HFNY said:Some good points and I simply want a bipartisan solution of addressing the border security while figuring out how to help some of these countries become more desirable so that their citizens actually stay in them unless they want to follow the proper avenue towards becoming legal residents (and eventually American citizens).
greenblood said:I hate the word undocumented workers. The only accepted terms are illegal aliens or illegal occupants. Undocumented workers is a term people like OZONE created to cope with their guilt.
Also, I agree with Damone. I really don't care, some illegal occupants are good and mind their own damn business, while some are bad. Water is wet.
Illegal occupants are what is keeping social security afloat right now, and as long as that is the case, the left will continue to act like they want to provide mass citizenship to illegals but will never grant it. Same lipstick, different pig. -
MikeDamone said:
Illegal immigration is good for the immigrants and the U.S. ...as long as it remains illegal.
We know this and their is a bipartisan understanding of this. That is why nothing changes and the low information voters are outraged.
I used to coyote (dog) hunt an insane amount in about a 50 mile radius of Tucson. In my nine years there I went out at least 750 times. I came across thousands of Mexicans making their way into town out in the desert. I could take you on miles of trails with water, mattresses, jackets, shoes, packs, etc. that are all strategically placed to help the immigrants on their journey. I encountered zero Border Patrol Agents and one ICE agent who was lost and I helped him find his car out in the actual desert.
The only place you will ever find those F-350 Super Duty's with 6 inches of lift and 35" extra wide tires is on the pavement. You'll pass more of those than POV's.
The Border Patrol was a way for the government to create more jobs to go along with the tons of jobs they already made because of it. We need those Mexicans just like they need us. There is no border situation/problem. It's the same as it ever was and will continue to be that way forever.
