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Okay, the Russo-Ukrainian Separatists are Fucking Hilarious
Comments
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Okay cool, then you agree that the prior administration's plan of going into debt to pay for two wars was a very poor plan.MikeDamone said:
Yes, I was. Not just war debt either. And we shouldn't go into debt to spend the things you list either.OZONE said:
What I'm saying is that I'd have rather seen the 4 trillion dollar war cost spent on the things I listed, but now the cost is there as a debt, and has to be paid off.MikeDamone said:
I thought you were talking about using the same money for schools, roads...etc.OZONE said:
Sure you would.MikeDamone said:
I'd much rather have the force of government steal less of peoples earnings.OZONE said:
I'm not here to prop him up as a great prez, but I think that criticism about the Russia / Ukraine situation is dumb. As I've said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, and financing it.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
I'd much rather see our tax dollars spent on things like schools, roads, hospitals, high speed rail systems, parks with sports fields, bridges, and sea plane harbors... and less money spent on building more nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines or exotic expensive weapons or aid to some random jihadist that will become terrorists in 15 years and use the weapons and training we gave them on us.
Do you have a plan for how we get that war debt paid off... without taxes?
Were you this vocal about gov't spending with the prior guy was racking up this debt?
Also, I said tax on earnings...
We agree on that.
I'm not advocating going further into debt for pay for what I listed... and I'd prefer a balanced budget each year... rather than borrowing money from China to bail out wall street.
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Yes..and I agree that continuing to do it for 5 more years was a bad plan. And I agree that going into debt for bailouts (banks, automakers, mortgage holders, etc.) and "stimulus" was a bad plan. I agree that going into debt for anything is a bad idea.OZONE said:
Okay cool, then you agree that the prior administration's plan of going into debt to pay for two wars was a very poor plan.MikeDamone said:
Yes, I was. Not just war debt either. And we shouldn't go into debt to spend the things you list either.OZONE said:
What I'm saying is that I'd have rather seen the 4 trillion dollar war cost spent on the things I listed, but now the cost is there as a debt, and has to be paid off.MikeDamone said:
I thought you were talking about using the same money for schools, roads...etc.OZONE said:
Sure you would.MikeDamone said:
I'd much rather have the force of government steal less of peoples earnings.OZONE said:
I'm not here to prop him up as a great prez, but I think that criticism about the Russia / Ukraine situation is dumb. As I've said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, and financing it.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
I'd much rather see our tax dollars spent on things like schools, roads, hospitals, high speed rail systems, parks with sports fields, bridges, and sea plane harbors... and less money spent on building more nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines or exotic expensive weapons or aid to some random jihadist that will become terrorists in 15 years and use the weapons and training we gave them on us.
Do you have a plan for how we get that war debt paid off... without taxes?
Were you this vocal about gov't spending with the prior guy was racking up this debt?
Also, I said tax on earnings...
We agree on that.
I'm not advocating going further into debt for pay for what I listed... and I'd prefer a balanced budget each year... rather than borrowing money from China to bail out wall street.
Just a point of clarification, we don't specifically "borrow money from China" to go into debt. The Federal Reserve and all kinds of individuals, banks, investment companies, and governments are free to buy U.S. Treasuries and other bonds. China holds about 8% of the debt and about 25% of all foreign held debt. Japan holds nearly the same amount, but not quite.
But none of the affects or conflicts with my earlier statement.
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It's only worth going into debt if you need something that is absolutely vital, or if you are relatively certain that you will profit later by taking on present debt.
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Re: government debt.
Disagree.
Governments have more flexibility than individuals when it comes to indebtedness, particularly the U.S.
Deficit-worriers portray a future in which we’re impoverished by the need to pay back money we’ve been borrowing. They see America as being like a family that took out too large a mortgage, and will have a hard time making the monthly payments.
This is, however, a really bad analogy in at least two ways.
First, families have to pay back their debt. Governments don’t — all they need to do is ensure that debt grows more slowly than their tax base. The debt from World War II was never repaid; it just became increasingly irrelevant as the U.S. economy grew, and with it the income subject to taxation.
Second — and this is the point almost nobody seems to get — an over-borrowed family owes money to someone else; U.S. debt is, to a large extent, money we owe to ourselves.
This was clearly true of the debt incurred to win World War II. Taxpayers were on the hook for a debt that was significantly bigger, as a percentage of G.D.P., than debt today; but that debt was also owned by taxpayers, such as all the people who bought savings bonds. So the debt didn’t make postwar America poorer. In particular, the debt didn’t prevent the postwar generation from experiencing the biggest rise in incomes and living standards in our nation’s history.
But isn’t this time different? Not as much as you think.
It’s true that foreigners now hold large claims on the United States, including a fair amount of government debt. But every dollar’s worth of foreign claims on America is matched by 89 cents’ worth of U.S. claims on foreigners. And because foreigners tend to put their U.S. investments into safe, low-yield assets, America actually earns more from its assets abroad than it pays to foreign investors. If your image is of a nation that’s already deep in hock to the Chinese, you’ve been misinformed. Nor are we heading rapidly in that direction.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/opinion/krugman-nobody-understands-debt.html?_r=0 -
WTF'd for Krugman.
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He's at least as credible as the Ludwig von Mises Institute for Ayn Rand Economics or whateverTierbsHsotBoobs said:
WTF'd for Krugman.
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Krugman is a fraud. He is wrong too many times to count. This is just one example.TierbsHsotBoobs said:WTF'd for Krugman.
There are several articles like this one.
moneymorning.com/2012/01/09/paul-krugman-is-dead-wrong-debt-matters/
And this one.
huffingtonpost.com/charles-kolb/why-paul-krugman-is-wrong_b_3255089.html -
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Krugman's piece was glib, but gets the point across. A more nuanced view is from J. Bradford Delong (econ prof at Cal) who writes:
As long as stock prices are buoyant, business leaders are not scared of future taxes or of policy uncertainty. As long as interest rates remain low, there is no downward pressure on public investment. And as long as inflation remains low, the extra debt that governments are issuing is highly-prized as a store of value, helps savers sleep more easily at night, and provides a boost to the economy as it assists deleveraging and raises the velocity of spending.
Economists, you see, don't watch just quantities--the amount of debt a government has issued--but prices. And the prices of government debt are the rate of inflation, the nominal interest rate, and the level of the stock market as people trade bonds for commodities, bonds for cash, and bonds for stocks. And all three of these prices are flashing green: saying that markets would prefer and it would be better for the economy if government debt were growing at a faster pace than under current forecasts.
There still isn't any evidence of inflationary pressure in the economy yet, and Yellin has pretty much said outright that she is going to raise rates so as to kill off any possible inflation tendencies that might be lurking behind the couch somewhere (I think this is way too fucking cautious, as the economy is only just starting to recover from the Great Recession). -
MikeDamone said:
Krugman is a fraud.TierbsHsotBoobs said:WTF'd for Krugman.
Completely agree.
