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Okay, the Russo-Ukrainian Separatists are Fucking Hilarious
AZDuck
Member Posts: 15,381
Why would they admit this?
One of the leaders of the pro-Russian separatists admitted on Wednesday that a rebel group did have the anti-aircraft missiles that the US believes was used to shoot down flight MH17 and suggested that the missiles have since been sent back to Russia.
In comments that came close to an admission of guilt, Alexander Khodakovsky also said that the Ukrainian government had “provoked” the crash because it flew fighter jets near to the missile system.
Asked about responsibility for the plane crash, he said: “The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology.” He added: “It [Ukraine] not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26fe789c-126e-11e4-a581-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Kagqky2
The separatists deserve to lose, because they are fucking idiots.
And this, the Russkis are out of the closet in terms of giving them sophisticated weaponry. Also, fuck the Financial Times because they put a snarky little message in your clipboard when you cut-and-paste.
Though barely a week has passed since MH17 was shot out of the sky over Eastern Ukraine, an aggressive anti-aircraft campaign is still in full swing above the territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists.
On Wednesday, Ukraine’s defence ministry said two Su-25 fighters had been blown up by surface-to-air missiles, bringing the count of downed planes, not including MH17, to 14. The incident underscores a stark truth for the international community: the separatist insurgency is armed with an arsenal of growing size and sophistication. The question is: where has it come from?
When rebel brigades and units of Cossack volunteers sprouted in Crimea and eastern Ukraine this year, Russian president Vladimir Putin shrugged off questions about the source of their arms. Shops, he suggested.
But tanks cannot be bought in shops. Nor can anti-aircraft missile batteries of the kind that probably blew Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 out of the sky last week.
Dozens of online images – several of them with location tags in rebel territory and checked by the Financial Times with imaging software to ensure they are recent – confirm large amounts of such equipment now in rebel hands and in use in the fighting in eastern Ukraine.
The Kremlin has repeatedly denied providing arms to the separatists and using undercover operatives on the ground. But western intelligence chiefs say they have little doubt about the origin of the weaponry. The downing of MH17 was achieved, they allege, with sophisticated Russian arms and expertise as part of a smuggling programme directed by Russian military and intelligence officials that has seen materiel moved over Ukraine’s border in ever-larger amounts in recent months as Kiev’s fightback has grown in intensity.
Among the equipment US intelligence officials believe Russia has supplied are dozens of T-64 battle tanks, Grad rocket launchers, 2S9 Nona self-propelled guns, artillery, BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles with automatic cannons, armoured troop carriers, small arms from semi-automatic weapons and mines, and sophisticated anti-aircraft systems.
“The overall strategy – that has been missed by many in the west – has been to create a proper army,” said Jonathan Eyal, international director at the Royal United Services Institute, a military and strategic think-tank. “It is not to create a guerrilla organisation. It is not a resistance movement. Russia is trying to create a proper military force.”
The numbers of weapons coming into eastern Ukraine – and their capabilities – appear to be anything but small. In the months before the downing of MH17, Russian armament supplies amounted to dozens of vehicles in any given week, according to a Nato intelligence briefing.
The weekend before the Malaysian airliner was shot down, killing the 298 people on board, US intelligence officials said they detected a convoy of “up to 150 vehicles” crossing the border to separatist positions.
“Most of Ukraine’s border controls have simply melted away,” said Mr Eyal. “Russia has been transporting weapons across on the back of trucks as if it was in the middle of Russia.”
Against such a backdrop, the US is releasing few details however. Satellite images released by the US and Nato allies have been commissioned from private sector companies, so as not to give away details of high-resolution imaging and tracking capabilities.
In private, officials are less guarded. “There is a stealth war being waged,” said one senior Nato official. “Russia is covertly arming the rebels en masse to specifically make these ambiguous attacks possible. And it is accelerating.”
Such is the flood of weaponry that anti-Kiev forces have a shortage of skilled technicians, drivers and engineers to operate it. In Lugansk and Donetsk last month, they distributed leaflets looking for tank drivers.
Some of the equipment in use has been captured from Ukrainian forces. Eastern Ukraine is the centre of the country’s large armaments industry and some Ukraine military installations and arms caches have been over-run.
But such an explanation only accounts for a small number of arms, military experts say.
In addition, the markings on the tanks and armoured vehicles pictured in use by the rebels across social media are not consistent with those of the Ukrainian military.
Most are not marked at all – echoing the sudden appearance of unmarked vehicles in Crimea before Russia annexed the territory this year.
Much of the equipment also tallies with models known to be part of Russia’s mothballed armoury of weapons. Russia has 2,000 spare T-64 tanks, for example, which have officially been earmarked for destruction – part of an 18,000 tank stockpile of equipment phased out in recent military reforms.
On June 27, Ukrainian forces, after over-running a rebel position near Artemivsk, captured a T-64BV battle tank, and with it, documentation. The serial numbering of the tank shows it was manufactured in Kharkov Tank Factory in 1987, Ukrainian military officials said, and was stationed in the Russian city of Budenovskiy with Russia’s 205th infantry brigade until being recently taken out of service. The tank had been fitted with batteries and other parts recently made in St Petersburg, they added.
The means by which such equipment has reached rebel hands is less clearly documented but there is circumstantial evidence.
Satellite imagery compiled by Nato intelligence services seems to show defunct Russian military equipment being shipped to Ukraine in convoys.
Snizhne – the town from where Ukraine’s security service, the SBU, believes MH17 was shot down – is one of the first stopping points on what Nato intelligence officials say is one of the main routes for illicit arms into the country from Russia.
Nato images from late June, for example, show T-64 tanks being loaded on to transporters in Novocherkassk, about 50km from the Dolzhansky border crossing southeast of Snizhne, in what it has identified as a base – a previously little-used military site – for a logistical campaign to get heavy arms into Donetsk and Luhansk.
The questions that remain unanswered, however, concern exactly who is controlling such an operation.
So far, Moscow has denied strenuously that it has supplied the anti-Kiev insurgents with weaponry. But the Kremlin has also skirted proposals for international observers from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe to be sent to border crossings.
“Obviously, you can’t just hand over these weapons systems without authorisation from high up,” said Keir Giles, a Russia expert and director of the Conflict Studies Research Centre at Chatham House in London. “There has to be significant military and intelligence authority to make this happen. Nobody is going to be doing this without authority from an extremely high level.”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cf7983d4-10d6-11e4-812b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Kagqky2
One of the leaders of the pro-Russian separatists admitted on Wednesday that a rebel group did have the anti-aircraft missiles that the US believes was used to shoot down flight MH17 and suggested that the missiles have since been sent back to Russia.
In comments that came close to an admission of guilt, Alexander Khodakovsky also said that the Ukrainian government had “provoked” the crash because it flew fighter jets near to the missile system.
Asked about responsibility for the plane crash, he said: “The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology.” He added: “It [Ukraine] not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26fe789c-126e-11e4-a581-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Kagqky2
The separatists deserve to lose, because they are fucking idiots.
And this, the Russkis are out of the closet in terms of giving them sophisticated weaponry. Also, fuck the Financial Times because they put a snarky little message in your clipboard when you cut-and-paste.
Though barely a week has passed since MH17 was shot out of the sky over Eastern Ukraine, an aggressive anti-aircraft campaign is still in full swing above the territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists.
On Wednesday, Ukraine’s defence ministry said two Su-25 fighters had been blown up by surface-to-air missiles, bringing the count of downed planes, not including MH17, to 14. The incident underscores a stark truth for the international community: the separatist insurgency is armed with an arsenal of growing size and sophistication. The question is: where has it come from?
When rebel brigades and units of Cossack volunteers sprouted in Crimea and eastern Ukraine this year, Russian president Vladimir Putin shrugged off questions about the source of their arms. Shops, he suggested.
But tanks cannot be bought in shops. Nor can anti-aircraft missile batteries of the kind that probably blew Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 out of the sky last week.
Dozens of online images – several of them with location tags in rebel territory and checked by the Financial Times with imaging software to ensure they are recent – confirm large amounts of such equipment now in rebel hands and in use in the fighting in eastern Ukraine.
The Kremlin has repeatedly denied providing arms to the separatists and using undercover operatives on the ground. But western intelligence chiefs say they have little doubt about the origin of the weaponry. The downing of MH17 was achieved, they allege, with sophisticated Russian arms and expertise as part of a smuggling programme directed by Russian military and intelligence officials that has seen materiel moved over Ukraine’s border in ever-larger amounts in recent months as Kiev’s fightback has grown in intensity.
Among the equipment US intelligence officials believe Russia has supplied are dozens of T-64 battle tanks, Grad rocket launchers, 2S9 Nona self-propelled guns, artillery, BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles with automatic cannons, armoured troop carriers, small arms from semi-automatic weapons and mines, and sophisticated anti-aircraft systems.
“The overall strategy – that has been missed by many in the west – has been to create a proper army,” said Jonathan Eyal, international director at the Royal United Services Institute, a military and strategic think-tank. “It is not to create a guerrilla organisation. It is not a resistance movement. Russia is trying to create a proper military force.”
The numbers of weapons coming into eastern Ukraine – and their capabilities – appear to be anything but small. In the months before the downing of MH17, Russian armament supplies amounted to dozens of vehicles in any given week, according to a Nato intelligence briefing.
The weekend before the Malaysian airliner was shot down, killing the 298 people on board, US intelligence officials said they detected a convoy of “up to 150 vehicles” crossing the border to separatist positions.
“Most of Ukraine’s border controls have simply melted away,” said Mr Eyal. “Russia has been transporting weapons across on the back of trucks as if it was in the middle of Russia.”
Against such a backdrop, the US is releasing few details however. Satellite images released by the US and Nato allies have been commissioned from private sector companies, so as not to give away details of high-resolution imaging and tracking capabilities.
In private, officials are less guarded. “There is a stealth war being waged,” said one senior Nato official. “Russia is covertly arming the rebels en masse to specifically make these ambiguous attacks possible. And it is accelerating.”
Such is the flood of weaponry that anti-Kiev forces have a shortage of skilled technicians, drivers and engineers to operate it. In Lugansk and Donetsk last month, they distributed leaflets looking for tank drivers.
Some of the equipment in use has been captured from Ukrainian forces. Eastern Ukraine is the centre of the country’s large armaments industry and some Ukraine military installations and arms caches have been over-run.
But such an explanation only accounts for a small number of arms, military experts say.
In addition, the markings on the tanks and armoured vehicles pictured in use by the rebels across social media are not consistent with those of the Ukrainian military.
Most are not marked at all – echoing the sudden appearance of unmarked vehicles in Crimea before Russia annexed the territory this year.
Much of the equipment also tallies with models known to be part of Russia’s mothballed armoury of weapons. Russia has 2,000 spare T-64 tanks, for example, which have officially been earmarked for destruction – part of an 18,000 tank stockpile of equipment phased out in recent military reforms.
On June 27, Ukrainian forces, after over-running a rebel position near Artemivsk, captured a T-64BV battle tank, and with it, documentation. The serial numbering of the tank shows it was manufactured in Kharkov Tank Factory in 1987, Ukrainian military officials said, and was stationed in the Russian city of Budenovskiy with Russia’s 205th infantry brigade until being recently taken out of service. The tank had been fitted with batteries and other parts recently made in St Petersburg, they added.
The means by which such equipment has reached rebel hands is less clearly documented but there is circumstantial evidence.
Satellite imagery compiled by Nato intelligence services seems to show defunct Russian military equipment being shipped to Ukraine in convoys.
Snizhne – the town from where Ukraine’s security service, the SBU, believes MH17 was shot down – is one of the first stopping points on what Nato intelligence officials say is one of the main routes for illicit arms into the country from Russia.
Nato images from late June, for example, show T-64 tanks being loaded on to transporters in Novocherkassk, about 50km from the Dolzhansky border crossing southeast of Snizhne, in what it has identified as a base – a previously little-used military site – for a logistical campaign to get heavy arms into Donetsk and Luhansk.
The questions that remain unanswered, however, concern exactly who is controlling such an operation.
So far, Moscow has denied strenuously that it has supplied the anti-Kiev insurgents with weaponry. But the Kremlin has also skirted proposals for international observers from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe to be sent to border crossings.
“Obviously, you can’t just hand over these weapons systems without authorisation from high up,” said Keir Giles, a Russia expert and director of the Conflict Studies Research Centre at Chatham House in London. “There has to be significant military and intelligence authority to make this happen. Nobody is going to be doing this without authority from an extremely high level.”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cf7983d4-10d6-11e4-812b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Kagqky2
Comments
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Mods?
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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26fe789c-126e-11e4-a581-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Kagqky2AZDuck said:Why would they admit this?
One of the leaders of the pro-Russian separatists admitted on Wednesday that a rebel group did have the anti-aircraft missiles that the US believes was used to shoot down flight MH17 and suggested that the missiles have since been sent back to Russia.
In comments that came close to an admission of guilt, Alexander Khodakovsky also said that the Ukrainian government had “provoked” the crash because it flew fighter jets near to the missile system.
Asked about responsibility for the plane crash, he said: “The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology.” He added: “It [Ukraine] not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians.”
The separatists deserve to lose, because they are fucking idiots.
And this, the Russkis are out of the closet in terms of giving them sophisticated weaponry. Also, fuck the Financial Times because they put a snarky little message in your clipboard when you cut-and-paste.
Though barely a week has passed since MH17 was shot out of the sky over Eastern Ukraine, an aggressive anti-aircraft campaign is still in full swing above the territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists.
On Wednesday, Ukraine’s defence ministry said two Su-25 fighters had been blown up by surface-to-air missiles, bringing the count of downed planes, not including MH17, to 14. The incident underscores a stark truth for the international community: the separatist insurgency is armed with an arsenal of growing size and sophistication. The question is: where has it come from?
When rebel brigades and units of Cossack volunteers sprouted in Crimea and eastern Ukraine this year, Russian president Vladimir Putin shrugged off questions about the source of their arms. Shops, he suggested.
But tanks cannot be bought in shops. Nor can anti-aircraft missile batteries of the kind that probably blew Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 out of the sky last week.
Dozens of online images – several of them with location tags in rebel territory and checked by the Financial Times with imaging software to ensure they are recent – confirm large amounts of such equipment now in rebel hands and in use in the fighting in eastern Ukraine.
The Kremlin has repeatedly denied providing arms to the separatists and using undercover operatives on the ground. But western intelligence chiefs say they have little doubt about the origin of the weaponry. The downing of MH17 was achieved, they allege, with sophisticated Russian arms and expertise as part of a smuggling programme directed by Russian military and intelligence officials that has seen materiel moved over Ukraine’s border in ever-larger amounts in recent months as Kiev’s fightback has grown in intensity.
Among the equipment US intelligence officials believe Russia has supplied are dozens of T-64 battle tanks, Grad rocket launchers, 2S9 Nona self-propelled guns, artillery, BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles with automatic cannons, armoured troop carriers, small arms from semi-automatic weapons and mines, and sophisticated anti-aircraft systems.
“The overall strategy – that has been missed by many in the west – has been to create a proper army,” said Jonathan Eyal, international director at the Royal United Services Institute, a military and strategic think-tank. “It is not to create a guerrilla organisation. It is not a resistance movement. Russia is trying to create a proper military force.”
The numbers of weapons coming into eastern Ukraine – and their capabilities – appear to be anything but small. In the months before the downing of MH17, Russian armament supplies amounted to dozens of vehicles in any given week, according to a Nato intelligence briefing.
The weekend before the Malaysian airliner was shot down, killing the 298 people on board, US intelligence officials said they detected a convoy of “up to 150 vehicles” crossing the border to separatist positions.
“Most of Ukraine’s border controls have simply melted away,” said Mr Eyal. “Russia has been transporting weapons across on the back of trucks as if it was in the middle of Russia.”
Against such a backdrop, the US is releasing few details however. Satellite images released by the US and Nato allies have been commissioned from private sector companies, so as not to give away details of high-resolution imaging and tracking capabilities.
In private, officials are less guarded. “There is a stealth war being waged,” said one senior Nato official. “Russia is covertly arming the rebels en masse to specifically make these ambiguous attacks possible. And it is accelerating.”
Such is the flood of weaponry that anti-Kiev forces have a shortage of skilled technicians, drivers and engineers to operate it. In Lugansk and Donetsk last month, they distributed leaflets looking for tank drivers.
Some of the equipment in use has been captured from Ukrainian forces. Eastern Ukraine is the centre of the country’s large armaments industry and some Ukraine military installations and arms caches have been over-run.
But such an explanation only accounts for a small number of arms, military experts say.
In addition, the markings on the tanks and armoured vehicles pictured in use by the rebels across social media are not consistent with those of the Ukrainian military.
Most are not marked at all – echoing the sudden appearance of unmarked vehicles in Crimea before Russia annexed the territory this year.
Much of the equipment also tallies with models known to be part of Russia’s mothballed armoury of weapons. Russia has 2,000 spare T-64 tanks, for example, which have officially been earmarked for destruction – part of an 18,000 tank stockpile of equipment phased out in recent military reforms.
On June 27, Ukrainian forces, after over-running a rebel position near Artemivsk, captured a T-64BV battle tank, and with it, documentation. The serial numbering of the tank shows it was manufactured in Kharkov Tank Factory in 1987, Ukrainian military officials said, and was stationed in the Russian city of Budenovskiy with Russia’s 205th infantry brigade until being recently taken out of service. The tank had been fitted with batteries and other parts recently made in St Petersburg, they added.
The means by which such equipment has reached rebel hands is less clearly documented but there is circumstantial evidence.
Satellite imagery compiled by Nato intelligence services seems to show defunct Russian military equipment being shipped to Ukraine in convoys.
Snizhne – the town from where Ukraine’s security service, the SBU, believes MH17 was shot down – is one of the first stopping points on what Nato intelligence officials say is one of the main routes for illicit arms into the country from Russia.
Nato images from late June, for example, show T-64 tanks being loaded on to transporters in Novocherkassk, about 50km from the Dolzhansky border crossing southeast of Snizhne, in what it has identified as a base – a previously little-used military site – for a logistical campaign to get heavy arms into Donetsk and Luhansk.
The questions that remain unanswered, however, concern exactly who is controlling such an operation.
So far, Moscow has denied strenuously that it has supplied the anti-Kiev insurgents with weaponry. But the Kremlin has also skirted proposals for international observers from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe to be sent to border crossings.
“Obviously, you can’t just hand over these weapons systems without authorisation from high up,” said Keir Giles, a Russia expert and director of the Conflict Studies Research Centre at Chatham House in London. “There has to be significant military and intelligence authority to make this happen. Nobody is going to be doing this without authority from an extremely high level.”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cf7983d4-10d6-11e4-812b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Kagqky2
Disagree.
Wrong board fuckhead. -
There are no seperatists - just Russian soldiers not in uniform. HTH
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hmmm... still unclear... Is Peterman recruiting Russian separatists or not?
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Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
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This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
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Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it. -
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/26fe789c-126e-11e4-a581-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Kagqky2AZDuck said:Why would they admit this?
One of the leaders of the pro-Russian separatists admitted on Wednesday that a rebel group did have the anti-aircraft missiles that the US believes was used to shoot down flight MH17 and suggested that the missiles have since been sent back to Russia.
In comments that came close to an admission of guilt, Alexander Khodakovsky also said that the Ukrainian government had “provoked” the crash because it flew fighter jets near to the missile system.
Asked about responsibility for the plane crash, he said: “The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology.” He added: “It [Ukraine] not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians.”
The separatists deserve to lose, because they are fucking idiots.
And this, the Russkis are out of the closet in terms of giving them sophisticated weaponry. Also, fuck the Financial Times because they put a snarky little message in your clipboard when you cut-and-paste.
Though barely a week has passed since MH17 was shot out of the sky over Eastern Ukraine, an aggressive anti-aircraft campaign is still in full swing above the territories controlled by pro-Russian separatists.
On Wednesday, Ukraine’s defence ministry said two Su-25 fighters had been blown up by surface-to-air missiles, bringing the count of downed planes, not including MH17, to 14. The incident underscores a stark truth for the international community: the separatist insurgency is armed with an arsenal of growing size and sophistication. The question is: where has it come from?
When rebel brigades and units of Cossack volunteers sprouted in Crimea and eastern Ukraine this year, Russian president Vladimir Putin shrugged off questions about the source of their arms. Shops, he suggested.
But tanks cannot be bought in shops. Nor can anti-aircraft missile batteries of the kind that probably blew Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 out of the sky last week.
Dozens of online images – several of them with location tags in rebel territory and checked by the Financial Times with imaging software to ensure they are recent – confirm large amounts of such equipment now in rebel hands and in use in the fighting in eastern Ukraine.
The Kremlin has repeatedly denied providing arms to the separatists and using undercover operatives on the ground. But western intelligence chiefs say they have little doubt about the origin of the weaponry. The downing of MH17 was achieved, they allege, with sophisticated Russian arms and expertise as part of a smuggling programme directed by Russian military and intelligence officials that has seen materiel moved over Ukraine’s border in ever-larger amounts in recent months as Kiev’s fightback has grown in intensity.
Among the equipment US intelligence officials believe Russia has supplied are dozens of T-64 battle tanks, Grad rocket launchers, 2S9 Nona self-propelled guns, artillery, BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles with automatic cannons, armoured troop carriers, small arms from semi-automatic weapons and mines, and sophisticated anti-aircraft systems.
“The overall strategy – that has been missed by many in the west – has been to create a proper army,” said Jonathan Eyal, international director at the Royal United Services Institute, a military and strategic think-tank. “It is not to create a guerrilla organisation. It is not a resistance movement. Russia is trying to create a proper military force.”
The numbers of weapons coming into eastern Ukraine – and their capabilities – appear to be anything but small. In the months before the downing of MH17, Russian armament supplies amounted to dozens of vehicles in any given week, according to a Nato intelligence briefing.
The weekend before the Malaysian airliner was shot down, killing the 298 people on board, US intelligence officials said they detected a convoy of “up to 150 vehicles” crossing the border to separatist positions.
“Most of Ukraine’s border controls have simply melted away,” said Mr Eyal. “Russia has been transporting weapons across on the back of trucks as if it was in the middle of Russia.”
Against such a backdrop, the US is releasing few details however. Satellite images released by the US and Nato allies have been commissioned from private sector companies, so as not to give away details of high-resolution imaging and tracking capabilities.
In private, officials are less guarded. “There is a stealth war being waged,” said one senior Nato official. “Russia is covertly arming the rebels en masse to specifically make these ambiguous attacks possible. And it is accelerating.”
Such is the flood of weaponry that anti-Kiev forces have a shortage of skilled technicians, drivers and engineers to operate it. In Lugansk and Donetsk last month, they distributed leaflets looking for tank drivers.
Some of the equipment in use has been captured from Ukrainian forces. Eastern Ukraine is the centre of the country’s large armaments industry and some Ukraine military installations and arms caches have been over-run.
But such an explanation only accounts for a small number of arms, military experts say.
In addition, the markings on the tanks and armoured vehicles pictured in use by the rebels across social media are not consistent with those of the Ukrainian military.
Most are not marked at all – echoing the sudden appearance of unmarked vehicles in Crimea before Russia annexed the territory this year.
Much of the equipment also tallies with models known to be part of Russia’s mothballed armoury of weapons. Russia has 2,000 spare T-64 tanks, for example, which have officially been earmarked for destruction – part of an 18,000 tank stockpile of equipment phased out in recent military reforms.
On June 27, Ukrainian forces, after over-running a rebel position near Artemivsk, captured a T-64BV battle tank, and with it, documentation. The serial numbering of the tank shows it was manufactured in Kharkov Tank Factory in 1987, Ukrainian military officials said, and was stationed in the Russian city of Budenovskiy with Russia’s 205th infantry brigade until being recently taken out of service. The tank had been fitted with batteries and other parts recently made in St Petersburg, they added.
The means by which such equipment has reached rebel hands is less clearly documented but there is circumstantial evidence.
Satellite imagery compiled by Nato intelligence services seems to show defunct Russian military equipment being shipped to Ukraine in convoys.
Snizhne – the town from where Ukraine’s security service, the SBU, believes MH17 was shot down – is one of the first stopping points on what Nato intelligence officials say is one of the main routes for illicit arms into the country from Russia.
Nato images from late June, for example, show T-64 tanks being loaded on to transporters in Novocherkassk, about 50km from the Dolzhansky border crossing southeast of Snizhne, in what it has identified as a base – a previously little-used military site – for a logistical campaign to get heavy arms into Donetsk and Luhansk.
The questions that remain unanswered, however, concern exactly who is controlling such an operation.
So far, Moscow has denied strenuously that it has supplied the anti-Kiev insurgents with weaponry. But the Kremlin has also skirted proposals for international observers from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe to be sent to border crossings.
“Obviously, you can’t just hand over these weapons systems without authorisation from high up,” said Keir Giles, a Russia expert and director of the Conflict Studies Research Centre at Chatham House in London. “There has to be significant military and intelligence authority to make this happen. Nobody is going to be doing this without authority from an extremely high level.”
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/cf7983d4-10d6-11e4-812b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38Kagqky2
Disagree -
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it. -
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it. -
If you don't think Obama's foreign policy is completely fucked up, you're an idiot that can't be helped.OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it. -
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it. -
He killed OSAMA with his BARE HANDS and he's better than BUSH!!!!!1!!!!1Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
-
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it. -
His idiocy in Iraq will likely have us going back for another war in the future now that an actual terrorist state exists there. That is completely on him. HTFH.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it. -
OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
HRYK. I don't see any other presidents running around with these.
-
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it. -
-
Ozone's silence in this thread after your poast speaks volumes. He doesn't have shit for a response. Also, what has Obama done domestically that hasn't been a horrendous failure that negatively affects most Americans? I'm sure he doesn't have shit to say about that either.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it. -
Some liberals actually think ObamaCare is good legislation. Idiots.oregonblitzkrieg said:
Ozone's silence in this thread after your poast speaks volumes. He doesn't have shit for a response. Also, what has Obama done domestically that hasn't been a horrendous failure that negatively affects most Americans? I'm sure he doesn't have shit to say about that either.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it. -
None other than Jimmy Carter. President Obama is part of a rich heritage of our progressive leadership bringing peace throughout the world.dnc said:OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
HRYK. I don't see any other presidents running around with these.
-
Never forget that the Nobel Prize is based upon one man's guilty conscience.
Alfred Nobel ( listen (help·info)) was born on 21 October 1833 in Stockholm, Sweden, into a family of engineers.[6] He was a chemist, engineer, and inventor. In 1894, Nobel purchased the Bofors iron and steel mill, which he made into a major armaments manufacturer. Nobel also invented ballistite. This invention was a precursor to many smokeless military explosives, especially the British smokeless powder cordite. As a consequence of his patent claims, Nobel was eventually involved in a patent infringement lawsuit over cordite. Nobel amassed a fortune during his lifetime, with most of his wealth from his 355 inventions, of which dynamite is the most famous.[7]
In 1888, Nobel was astonished to read his own obituary, titled The merchant of death is dead, in a French newspaper. As it was Alfred's brother Ludvig who had died, the obituary was eight years premature. The article disconcerted Nobel and made him apprehensive about how he would be remembered. This inspired him to change his will.[8] On 10 December 1896, Alfred Nobel died in his villa in San Remo, Italy, from a cerebral haemorrhage. He was 63 years old.[9]
Nobel wrote several wills during his lifetime. He composed the last over a year before he died, signing it at the Swedish–Norwegian Club in Paris on 27 November 1895.[10][11] To widespread astonishment, Nobel's last will specified that his fortune be used to create a series of prizes for those who confer the "greatest benefit on mankind" in physics, chemistry, peace, physiology or medicine, and literature.[12] Nobel bequeathed 94% of his total assets, 31 million SEK (c. US$186 million, €150 million in 2008), to establish the five Nobel Prizes.[13] Because of scepticism surrounding the will, it was not until 26 April 1897 that it was approved by the Storting in Norway.[14] The executors of Nobel's will, Ragnar Sohlman and Rudolf Lilljequist, formed the Nobel Foundation to take care of Nobel's fortune and organise the award of prizes.[15]
Nobel's instructions named a Norwegian Nobel Committee to award the Peace Prize, the members of whom were appointed shortly after the will was approved in April 1897. Soon thereafter, the other prize-awarding organisations were designated or established. These were Karolinska Institutet on 7 June, the Swedish Academy on 9 June, and the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences on 11 June.[16] The Nobel Foundation reached an agreement on guidelines for how the prizes should be awarded; and, in 1900, the Nobel Foundation's newly created statutes were promulgated by King Oscar II.[12] In 1905, the personal union between Sweden and Norway was dissolved. Thereafter, Norway's Nobel Committee was responsible for awarding the Nobel Peace Prize and the Swedish institutions retained responsibility for the other prizes.[14] -
We prefer the term Progessives. We have worked hard to deliver progress to our country and our movement's name should reflect that.Swaye said:
Some liberals actually think ObamaCare is good legislation. Idiots.oregonblitzkrieg said:
Ozone's silence in this thread after your poast speaks volumes. He doesn't have shit for a response. Also, what has Obama done domestically that hasn't been a horrendous failure that negatively affects most Americans? I'm sure he doesn't have shit to say about that either.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
And if you can see the need to gently direct our citizens into making the right choices for themselves, then I can't help you. -
Excellent poont. Guess we should start calling them the White Guilt Awards.AZDuck said:Never forget that the Nobel Prize is based upon one man's guilty conscience.
Alfred Nobel ( listen (help·info)) was born on 21 October 1833 in Stockholm, Sweden, into a family of engineers.[6] He was a chemist, engineer, and inventor. In 1894, Nobel purchased the Bofors iron and steel mill, which he made into a major armaments manufacturer. Nobel also invented ballistite. This invention was a precursor to many smokeless military explosives, especially the British smokeless powder cordite. As a consequence of his patent claims, Nobel was eventually involved in a patent infringement lawsuit over cordite. Nobel amassed a fortune during his lifetime, with most of his wealth from his 355 inventions, of which dynamite is the most famous.[7]
In 1888, Nobel was astonished to read his own obituary, titled The merchant of death is dead, in a French newspaper. As it was Alfred's brother Ludvig who had died, the obituary was eight years premature. The article disconcerted Nobel and made him apprehensive about how he would be remembered. This inspired him to change his will.[8] On 10 December 1896, Alfred Nobel died in his villa in San Remo, Italy, from a cerebral haemorrhage. He was 63 years old.[9]
Nobel wrote several wills during his lifetime. He composed the last over a year before he died, signing it at the Swedish–Norwegian Club in Paris on 27 November 1895.[10][11] To widespread astonishment, Nobel's last will specified that his fortune be used to create a series of prizes for those who confer the "greatest benefit on mankind" in physics, chemistry, peace, physiology or medicine, and literature.[12] Nobel bequeathed 94% of his total assets, 31 million SEK (c. US$186 million, €150 million in 2008), to establish the five Nobel Prizes.[13] Because of scepticism surrounding the will, it was not until 26 April 1897 that it was approved by the Storting in Norway.[14] The executors of Nobel's will, Ragnar Sohlman and Rudolf Lilljequist, formed the Nobel Foundation to take care of Nobel's fortune and organise the award of prizes.[15]
Nobel's instructions named a Norwegian Nobel Committee to award the Peace Prize, the members of whom were appointed shortly after the will was approved in April 1897. Soon thereafter, the other prize-awarding organisations were designated or established. These were Karolinska Institutet on 7 June, the Swedish Academy on 9 June, and the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences on 11 June.[16] The Nobel Foundation reached an agreement on guidelines for how the prizes should be awarded; and, in 1900, the Nobel Foundation's newly created statutes were promulgated by King Oscar II.[12] In 1905, the personal union between Sweden and Norway was dissolved. Thereafter, Norway's Nobel Committee was responsible for awarding the Nobel Peace Prize and the Swedish institutions retained responsibility for the other prizes.[14]
Certainly makes Obama a much more worthy recipient. -
I'm not here to prop him up as a great prez, but I think that criticism about the Russia / Ukraine situation is dumb. As I've said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, and financing it.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
I'd much rather see our tax dollars spent on things like schools, roads, hospitals, high speed rail systems, parks with sports fields, bridges, and sea plane harbors... and less money spent on building more nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines or exotic expensive weapons or aid to some random jihadist that will become terrorists in 15 years and use the weapons and training we gave them on us. -
I'd much rather have the force of government steal less of peoples earnings.OZONE said:
I'm not here to prop him up as a great prez, but I think that criticism about the Russia / Ukraine situation is dumb. As I've said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, and financing it.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
I'd much rather see our tax dollars spent on things like schools, roads, hospitals, high speed rail systems, parks with sports fields, bridges, and sea plane harbors... and less money spent on building more nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines or exotic expensive weapons or aid to some random jihadist that will become terrorists in 15 years and use the weapons and training we gave them on us. -
Sure you would.MikeDamone said:
I'd much rather have the force of government steal less of peoples earnings.OZONE said:
I'm not here to prop him up as a great prez, but I think that criticism about the Russia / Ukraine situation is dumb. As I've said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, and financing it.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
I'd much rather see our tax dollars spent on things like schools, roads, hospitals, high speed rail systems, parks with sports fields, bridges, and sea plane harbors... and less money spent on building more nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines or exotic expensive weapons or aid to some random jihadist that will become terrorists in 15 years and use the weapons and training we gave them on us.
Do you have a plan for how we get that war debt paid off... without taxes? -
I thought you were talking about using the same money for schools, roads...etc.OZONE said:
Sure you would.MikeDamone said:
I'd much rather have the force of government steal less of peoples earnings.OZONE said:
I'm not here to prop him up as a great prez, but I think that criticism about the Russia / Ukraine situation is dumb. As I've said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, and financing it.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
I'd much rather see our tax dollars spent on things like schools, roads, hospitals, high speed rail systems, parks with sports fields, bridges, and sea plane harbors... and less money spent on building more nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines or exotic expensive weapons or aid to some random jihadist that will become terrorists in 15 years and use the weapons and training we gave them on us.
Do you have a plan for how we get that war debt paid off... without taxes? -
What I'm saying is that I'd have rather seen the 4 trillion dollar war cost spent on the things I listed, but now the cost is there as a debt, and has to be paid off.MikeDamone said:
I thought you were talking about using the same money for schools, roads...etc.OZONE said:
Sure you would.MikeDamone said:
I'd much rather have the force of government steal less of peoples earnings.OZONE said:
I'm not here to prop him up as a great prez, but I think that criticism about the Russia / Ukraine situation is dumb. As I've said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, and financing it.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
I'd much rather see our tax dollars spent on things like schools, roads, hospitals, high speed rail systems, parks with sports fields, bridges, and sea plane harbors... and less money spent on building more nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines or exotic expensive weapons or aid to some random jihadist that will become terrorists in 15 years and use the weapons and training we gave them on us.
Do you have a plan for how we get that war debt paid off... without taxes?
Were you this vocal about gov't spending with the prior guy was racking up this debt? -
Yes, I was. Not just war debt either. And we shouldn't go into debt to spend the things you list either.OZONE said:
What I'm saying is that I'd have rather seen the 4 trillion dollar war cost spent on the things I listed, but now the cost is there as a debt, and has to be paid off.MikeDamone said:
I thought you were talking about using the same money for schools, roads...etc.OZONE said:
Sure you would.MikeDamone said:
I'd much rather have the force of government steal less of peoples earnings.OZONE said:
I'm not here to prop him up as a great prez, but I think that criticism about the Russia / Ukraine situation is dumb. As I've said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, and financing it.Swaye said:
We will suspend judgment on whether or not his decisions to remove us from the region will be viewed positively or negatively in the next 10 years, but okay, you see removing us as a good thing. Got it.OZONE said:
You mean besides getting us out of two wars started by the prior guy that have cost our economy 4 trillion dollars?Swaye said:
What foreign policy triumphs orchestrated by Obama are you proud of?OZONE said:
Your anger us misdirected. Be angry at your parents for raising you in whatever school district you came from that produces such ignorant people with such a small minded grasp of the world.oregonblitzkrieg said:
You should feel proud of the spineless jackass that morons like you voted in for a second term. We now support terrorists (give money to the Palestinians, which ends up going to Hamas), betray allies (Israel), are letting Iran buttfuck us with the sanctions concessions we're giving them on their nuclear program when they've done NOTHING to change, do nothing about Putin shooting down an airliner, let Iraq be turned into a breeding ground of terrorist maggots by leaving no residual force there, and this is just the international bungling. If you did vote for him, please tie a rock around your ankle and drown yourself in the nearest lake.OZONE said:
Many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force.Southerndawg said:
This shit wouldn't be happening under Reagan's watch. The vapid empty suit currently occupying the White House is completely out of his realm .... and we have a voting populace rife with dumbasses to thank for that.topdawgnc said:Reagan was right. The bombing should have started in five minutes.
If Russia taking part of the Ukraine is bad for Europe, then let the fucking Europeans deal with it.
As I said, many of us voters aren't interested in being the world's police force, or paying for it.
Is there anything else you think he has done a fine job on? Situation at the border? Ukraine? Iran? Syria? ISIS? Israel? Any others? I'm not trying to be a dick. I want to know what policies this guy has put in place that you think are really stabilizing the world and our place in it.
I'd much rather see our tax dollars spent on things like schools, roads, hospitals, high speed rail systems, parks with sports fields, bridges, and sea plane harbors... and less money spent on building more nuclear aircraft carriers or submarines or exotic expensive weapons or aid to some random jihadist that will become terrorists in 15 years and use the weapons and training we gave them on us.
Do you have a plan for how we get that war debt paid off... without taxes?
Were you this vocal about gov't spending with the prior guy was racking up this debt?
Also, I said tax on earnings...
