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Tesla
Comments
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Congrats. You are in the minority to not have issues. Less moving parts so no mechanical problems is not a huge surprise, but it has been noted by industry experts everywhere that Tesla build quality is very spotty. I'm rooting for them to succeed because it's an American company. Personally, I will never own/drive an EV unless the government bans the commercial sale of gasoline - which I'm sure will happen 20 years from now.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
I was told Teslas take no maintenance.
Apparently brakes and shit are not a thing anymore -
I saw a self driving Tesla online. It picked these people up from Costco. It did horrible. It was hard to watch. I would be too impatient for that bullshit.Pitchfork51 said:I was told Teslas take no maintenance.
Apparently brakes and shit are not a thing anymore -
I would not be impatient at all because I'd either be asleep or drunk as fuck. The mistake people make about self-driving cars is that everyone believes they're an awesome driver even though they follow too close and text and eat and fuck with the stereo while they drive. People are waiting for self-driving cars to be perfectly safe before they accept it, but that's both unrealistic and stupid. It just needs to kill fewer than ~35,000 Americans per year to be a better driver than the average American.RoadDawg55 said:
I saw a self driving Tesla online. It picked these people up from Costco. It did horrible. It was hard to watch. I would be too impatient for that bullshit.Pitchfork51 said:I was told Teslas take no maintenance.
Apparently brakes and shit are not a thing anymore
I, for one, can't wait to sleep on my way to and from work and go out and drink as much as I want without having to pick my car up the next day. Hell, the sensors and programs are already surely safer than I am on my average commute, on which I wake up holding a steering wheel multiple tims... -
Human error is human error, but when the machine kills people it's a liability nightmare, even if you're right and it's implementation actually saves more lives.1to392831weretaken said:
I would not be impatient at all because I'd either be asleep or drunk as fuck. The mistake people make about self-driving cars is that everyone believes they're an awesome driver even though they follow too close and text and eat and fuck with the stereo while they drive. People are waiting for self-driving cars to be perfectly safe before they accept it, but that's both unrealistic and stupid. It just needs to kill fewer than ~35,000 Americans per year to be a better driver than the average American.RoadDawg55 said:
I saw a self driving Tesla online. It picked these people up from Costco. It did horrible. It was hard to watch. I would be too impatient for that bullshit.Pitchfork51 said:I was told Teslas take no maintenance.
Apparently brakes and shit are not a thing anymore
I, for one, can't wait to sleep on my way to and from work and go out and drink as much as I want without having to pick my car up the next day. Hell, the sensors and programs are already surely safer than I am on my average commute, on which I wake up holding a steering wheel multiple tims... -
Sad, but true. Human drivers suck, as mentioned above. Adaptation may swing this thinking eventually. I have watched newspapers, magazines and land lines become extinct, thinking the whole time "no way." I have now dropped my boomer thinking and know driver-less cars are coming. Keep your eye on Tesla insurance. Someone (Elon) thinks that Teslas are going to be in far less accidents than other vehicles. Although still not driver less, far superior to what is out there.Doogles said:
Human error is human error, but when the machine kills people it's a liability nightmare, even if you're right and it's implementation actually saves more lives.1to392831weretaken said:
I would not be impatient at all because I'd either be asleep or drunk as fuck. The mistake people make about self-driving cars is that everyone believes they're an awesome driver even though they follow too close and text and eat and fuck with the stereo while they drive. People are waiting for self-driving cars to be perfectly safe before they accept it, but that's both unrealistic and stupid. It just needs to kill fewer than ~35,000 Americans per year to be a better driver than the average American.RoadDawg55 said:
I saw a self driving Tesla online. It picked these people up from Costco. It did horrible. It was hard to watch. I would be too impatient for that bullshit.Pitchfork51 said:I was told Teslas take no maintenance.
Apparently brakes and shit are not a thing anymore
I, for one, can't wait to sleep on my way to and from work and go out and drink as much as I want without having to pick my car up the next day. Hell, the sensors and programs are already surely safer than I am on my average commute, on which I wake up holding a steering wheel multiple tims... -
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
Cybertruck is delayed. Not a surprise.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/difficult-tesla-cybertruck-postponed-2022 -
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
Most are too compact for me. They are fast, but at well over 6 ft, they are not practical for me right now.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
The model S is a boat. Definitely not a small car. 3s are smaller, but are as large as an average sedan.greenblood said:
Most are too compact for me. They are fast, but at well over 6 ft, they are not practical for me right now.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
Full torque from rest makes a huge difference. It's the main reason electric cars are destroying record times on tracks.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
In a straight line, and a handful of times before the battery is too low to make it home. The tech is impressive for daily driving, but if you're a gearhead who wants a weekend fun car they are still totally useless. Same with heavy-duty use and towing for trucks. The Ford Lightning will mostly be a mobile generator for folks who buy it.Sources said:
Full torque from rest makes a huge difference. It's the main reason electric cars are destroying record times on tracks.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
I'm a huge electric fan, but that's not at all the main reason lap records are being crushed by electrics. The main reason--and I assume we're talking about the ID.R here--is that the car that Volkswagen's using for this PR stunt was designed from the ground up to set a single fast lap. It's faster around a circuit than an F1 car because it has no rules to follow. The thing pulls well over 3 Gs in corners!Sources said:
Full torque from rest makes a huge difference. It's the main reason electric cars are destroying record times on tracks.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup.
All that being said, an ICE car can be designed to do these things as well, but there's an inflection point in the graph of required distance vs. power:weight below which the motor and battery are unbeatable. An electric motor and battery pack are smaller (better for balance and aero), lighter, and better able to be packaged if the pack can be kept small. Over a single lap, this is an unbeatable combo. Start increasing the race distance, and the weight and space occupied by extra fuel starts to be dwarfed by the weight and space taken up by the required battery pack.
A great illustration of this is the difference between Formula 1 and Formula E. Formula 1 has better acceleration, better speed, better aero, and goes a bit more distance (quite a bit more in a one-stop strategy) between refueling. Could a Formula E car be built that has better acceleration than F1 to take advantage of that torque? Sure, as can be seen with the ID.R. Ditto top speed, downforce, etc. Do any of these, though, and that battery will drain even faster. Over any kind or realistic race distance, ICE/hybrid is still crushing BEV. Battery development should (will?) change that calculus in the future, though. -
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Disagree, Plaid will give you 500 miles on a single charge and it's a race car with amazing performance. The battery is heavy and low to the ground. I can take corners at extremely high speeds better than I could with anybother car I've ever owned.BleachedAnusDawg said:
In a straight line, and a handful of times before the battery is too low to make it home. The tech is impressive for daily driving, but if you're a gearhead who wants a weekend fun car they are still totally useless. Same with heavy-duty use and towing for trucks. The Ford Lightning will mostly be a mobile generator for folks who buy it.Sources said:
Full torque from rest makes a huge difference. It's the main reason electric cars are destroying record times on tracks.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
My point was that you can only go wide open throttle a limited number of times before the battery is depleted quite a bit. Gas powered engines still have a massive advantage there as was mentioned earlier by someone comparing Formula 1 to Formula E. Model S Plaid carries .9 g's on the skidpad. Nothing special about that. It's a big car that weighs a lot so I guess within that context .9 g's is pretty decent.RoadTrip said:
Disagree, Plaid will give you 500 miles on a single charge and it's a race car with amazing performance. The battery is heavy and low to the ground. I can take corners at extremely high speeds better than I could with anybother car I've ever owned.BleachedAnusDawg said:
In a straight line, and a handful of times before the battery is too low to make it home. The tech is impressive for daily driving, but if you're a gearhead who wants a weekend fun car they are still totally useless. Same with heavy-duty use and towing for trucks. The Ford Lightning will mostly be a mobile generator for folks who buy it.Sources said:
Full torque from rest makes a huge difference. It's the main reason electric cars are destroying record times on tracks.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
I don't know what you're talking about. I go wide open several times a day driving up and down I-5. My battery has only lost about 20% from day 1 and I have well over 200,000 miles and the car is almost 6 years old. The battery degradation is extremely low. I have free super charging for the life of the vehicle so I'm holding onto it for a long time.BleachedAnusDawg said:
My point was that you can only go wide open throttle a limited number of times before the battery is depleted quite a bit. Gas powered engines still have a massive advantage there as was mentioned earlier by someone comparing Formula 1 to Formula E. Model S Plaid carries .9 g's on the skidpad. Nothing special about that. It's a big car that weighs a lot so I guess within that context .9 g's is pretty decent.RoadTrip said:
Disagree, Plaid will give you 500 miles on a single charge and it's a race car with amazing performance. The battery is heavy and low to the ground. I can take corners at extremely high speeds better than I could with anybother car I've ever owned.BleachedAnusDawg said:
In a straight line, and a handful of times before the battery is too low to make it home. The tech is impressive for daily driving, but if you're a gearhead who wants a weekend fun car they are still totally useless. Same with heavy-duty use and towing for trucks. The Ford Lightning will mostly be a mobile generator for folks who buy it.Sources said:
Full torque from rest makes a huge difference. It's the main reason electric cars are destroying record times on tracks.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup. -
Plaid Model S is good for 390 miles, btw. Lucid Air just certified at 520 miles and pre-production is testing as being faster than the Tesla. There are always going to be faster versions, longer range, etc.RoadTrip said:
I don't know what you're talking about. I go wide open several times a day driving up and down I-5. My battery has only lost about 20% from day 1 and I have well over 200,000 miles and the car is almost 6 years old. The battery degradation is extremely low. I have free super charging for the life of the vehicle so I'm holding onto it for a long time.BleachedAnusDawg said:
My point was that you can only go wide open throttle a limited number of times before the battery is depleted quite a bit. Gas powered engines still have a massive advantage there as was mentioned earlier by someone comparing Formula 1 to Formula E. Model S Plaid carries .9 g's on the skidpad. Nothing special about that. It's a big car that weighs a lot so I guess within that context .9 g's is pretty decent.RoadTrip said:
Disagree, Plaid will give you 500 miles on a single charge and it's a race car with amazing performance. The battery is heavy and low to the ground. I can take corners at extremely high speeds better than I could with anybother car I've ever owned.BleachedAnusDawg said:
In a straight line, and a handful of times before the battery is too low to make it home. The tech is impressive for daily driving, but if you're a gearhead who wants a weekend fun car they are still totally useless. Same with heavy-duty use and towing for trucks. The Ford Lightning will mostly be a mobile generator for folks who buy it.Sources said:
Full torque from rest makes a huge difference. It's the main reason electric cars are destroying record times on tracks.RoadTrip said:
I'll wait another 2-3 years and pick up a used Plaid version with something like 30K miles on it. But if Audi, Porche or another manufacturer puts something out that's better, I'll look at that too. If you haven't driven a performance, electric vehicle, you're in for a shock at how quick/fast they are. It feels like taking off on the best roller coaster you've ever been on.Baseman said:
So you bought six years ago. When will you buy again? Musk needs your revenue, sooner than later before the environmental credits expire.RoadTrip said:
I've owned the model S for 6 years and it's the best car I've ever owned and it's not close. I've owned BMW, Audi, Infinity, Ford, VW and Acura. I've never had a mechanical issue, am still on the original brakes and I have 230,000 miles on it. The reason I bought it is obvious and I took advantage of massive federal and state incentives as well as lifetime free charging. Did I mention it's fun as fuck to drive?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Ford builds more trucks in a year than Tesla can produce across all of its models. They are still tiny in the overall industry.89ute said:
Yes, look forward, not backwards. Your giving Elon "three model years" of more runway to continues to outpace Legacy while Legacy sits idle. Within a few months Telsa will go from 1 to 4 production plants. How many more EV plants will Tesla have in three model years?BleachedAnusDawg said:
Look forward, not backwards. Tesla does not have anything close to the manufacturing capacity required to become the #1 car producer. GM, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Toyota...the list goes on and on...all are rolling out massive EV lineups over the next three model years. Tesla has no chance of competing over the long-run as anything more than a brand equivalent to Volvo.89ute said:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g36278968/best-selling-evs-of-2021/Sources said:
Nio, Workhorse, Nikola, etc.FireCohen said:Who else is making products like them??
Your google must not be working.
No one holds a candle to Tesla.
The #1 selling EV is Tesla model Y. 76,426 sold so far in 2021. Add up all the others on the list of top 12 not named Tesla you get 64,841.
Add up all the Teslas on the list you get 139,297.
Tesla is double all other EVs combined.
You're looking at the future dominant car manufacturer in the world. And yeah, they aren't even a car company.
I don't see Legacy "crushing" Tesla, I just don't. I don't see Legacy building a better EV either, especially over the next 3-5 years, no way.
Have you sat in a Tesla before? Maybe you own one...the build quality is pretty lousy (as noted by experts, not my opinion) and the interiors are cheap and spartan (spartan by design, but most people will not accept that). Also, is anyone noticing that the Model S has not been re-designed for 12+ years? They can't get away with that forever. Model 3 is already four years old and still looks exactly the same.
I think Tesla builds a cool product and has carved out a loyal following. They aren't going away, but I have serious doubts that they'll ever be on par with Ford or GM. Ford is already selling the Mach-E and has the Lightning F-150 releasing in a few months (who in their right mind would buy a Cybertruck over that?). Jeep has its 4xE models which are apparently doing well. GM has the Bolt and will have its entire fleet electrified in the coming years, starting with the new Hummer lineup.
20% battery degradation off of, say 350 miles of range is still a loss of 70 miles. That's pretty significant. Doing a few pulls on I-5 is quite different from going drag racing or taking a spirited drive away from traffic. Your range will drop quite a bit, eg 25% or more on that charge. Also, those mileage ratings are at 60 mph. Drive 75 and you have less range, too.
My point is that you have a great car for daily driving. Electric tech is still a ways off for heavy-duty uses, and the costs to get the level of performance/range that people want is unaffordable to most all people at this time. Incidentally, I ran across a Tesla Model 3 Performance a few weeks back and pulled a few cars on it from 20 to 80 (2020 Camaro SS). Those start in the high-$50's. I paid $38,500 before TTL for my car.
Buy what you like. Electric cars are the future, no doubt. -
https://youtu.be/l2q_-xN2N54